Thread: Why is dreamviews more liberal than society at large?

Originally Posted by Omnis Dei

The cells in our bodies work together for the same reason we work together, because it allows them to survive. Single celled organisms became multicellular in order to survive. Animals form herds and packs in order to survive. They're all doing it for selfish reasons. Including the cells. The concept of a single "self" is only compatible with God. A human being is a collective. Cells work in harmony for their own benefit. They made an agreement. When they break the agreement and work for themselves, it's cancer. I see a metaphor here.

Holy biology misunderstanding, batman!

Single-celled organisms do not become multicellular in order to survive--that would imply some sort of intelligence on their part. A single-celled organism does not evolve into a multicellular organism because the cell thought: "Hey, if I become multicellular, I could better survive in this environment!" Organisms at that level do not possess such a level of intelligence. The same goes for cells allegedly acting selfishly.

And the notion that cells "made an agreement" is a major breakdown in your metaphor. Have you ever taken a biology class? Material doesn't come together because atoms decide "hey, let's go for it!" The same goes for humans existing because cells had some sort of convention.

Originally Posted by BLUELINE976

Holy biology misunderstanding, batman!

Single-celled organisms do not become multicellular in order to survive--that would imply some sort of intelligence on their part. A single-celled organism does not evolve into a multicellular organism because the cell thought: "Hey, if I become multicellular, I could better survive in this environment!" Organisms at that level do not possess such a level of intelligence. The same goes for cells allegedly acting selfishly.

And the notion that cells "made an agreement" is a major breakdown in your metaphor. Have you ever taken a biology class? Material doesn't come together because atoms decide "hey, let's go for it!" The same goes for humans existing because cells had some sort of convention.

I'm not implying cells are intelligent. I'm implying humans are a collection of stupid cells, actually. These cells happen to conglomerate via mutation, the same mechanism every organism evolves with. The reason multicellular organisms are able to out compete single celled organisms is because of this mutation. Intelligence is a myth.

Originally Posted by Omnis Dei

I'm not implying cells are intelligent. I'm implying humans are a collection of stupid cells, actually. These cells happen to conglomerate via mutation, the same mechanism every organism evolves with. The reason multicellular organisms are able to out compete single celled organisms is because of this mutation. Intelligence is a myth.

You imply cells possess intelligence when you say they act selfishly and made an agreement because those actions require intelligence. I don't know why you think intelligence is a myth so you'll have to explain that.

Originally Posted by BLUELINE976

You imply cells possess intelligence when you say they act selfishly and made an agreement because those actions require intelligence. I don't know why you think intelligence is a myth so you'll have to explain that.

Those actions do not require intelligence. Competition proves what strategies are beneficial to an organism and which are not through time. When a mutation prospers within a species that mutation has proven itself beneficial through the act of being beneficial. These cells were not thinking about what way to best survive. They either survived better, or they did not.

And Laughing Man. It seems the reason to me that you have no interest in formulating cohesive responses to my argument is because you don't have any interest in understanding what I'm saying. Let me just apologize right quick for being wrong, okay?

I am wrong about everything I say. You are infallible. Now that we've settled what's what, please feel free to lurk moar.

Originally Posted by Omnis Dei

Those actions do not require intelligence. Competition proves what strategies are beneficial to an organism and which are not through time. When a mutation prospers within a species that mutation has proven itself beneficial through the act of being beneficial. These cells were not thinking about what way to best survive. They either survived better, or they did not.

I don't even know where to begin. Laughing Man beat me to the punch, but you said cells act selfishly and made an agreement, which REQUIRES INTELLIGENCE no matter how you spin it, yet cells are stupid. Now you're saying acting selfishly and making agreements doesn't require intelligence while simultaneously agreeing with me that cells don't willfully evolve. What the hell is going on?

Originally Posted by BLUELINE976

I don't even know where to begin. Laughing Man beat me to the punch, but you said cells act selfishly and made an agreement, which REQUIRES INTELLIGENCE no matter how you spin it, yet cells are stupid. Now you're saying acting selfishly and making agreements doesn't require intelligence while simultaneously agreeing with me that cells don't willfully evolve. What the hell is going on?

Just because you're jumping to conclusions does not mean I implied any of the bullshit you're claiming I did. I'm attempting to show you how evolution works on the bigger scale by showing you how it works on the smaller scale. You're taking everything I'm saying at face value. Good Job. Congratulations at being able to twist words to mean whatever the fuck you want. If you'd stop aggressively attacking everything that raises an eyebrow and simply attempt to understand a different point of view you might learn something.

You see, this contains everything I need to refute both your arguments so I'll just repeat it. Try again

Those actions do not require intelligence. Competition proves what strategies are beneficial to an organism and which are not through time. When a mutation prospers within a species that mutation has proven itself beneficial through the act of being beneficial. These cells were not thinking about what way to best survive. They either survived better, or they did not.

Originally Posted by Omnis Dei

Just because you're jumping to conclusions does not mean I implied any of the bullshit you're claiming I did. I'm attempting to show you how evolution works on the bigger scale by showing you how it works on the smaller scale. You're taking everything I'm saying at face value. Good Job. Congratulations at being able to twist words to mean whatever the fuck you want. If you'd stop aggressively attacking everything that raises an eyebrow and simply attempt to understand a different point of view you might learn something.

You see, this contains everything I need to refute both your arguments so I'll just repeat it. Try again

Those actions do not require intelligence. Competition proves what strategies are beneficial to an organism and which are not through time. When a mutation prospers within a species that mutation has proven itself beneficial through the act of being beneficial. These cells were not thinking about what way to best survive. They either survived better, or they did not.

If intelligence is a myth, it's only in with you.

The cells in our bodies work together for the same reason we work together, because it allows them to survive. Single celled organisms became multicellular in order to survive. Animals form herds and packs in order to survive. They're all doing it for selfish reasons. Including the cells. The concept of a single "self" is only compatible with God. A human being is a collective. Cells work in harmony for their own benefit. They made an agreement. When they break the agreement and work for themselves, it's cancer. I see a metaphor here.

The bolded parts require intelligence to perform. This is a fact of life. I implore you to show how single-celled organisms became multicellular IN ORDER TO survive (without intelligence). Note the IN ORDER TO part. I implore you to show how cells act selfishly without intelligence. I implore you to show how cells work in harmony for their own benefit and make agreements WITHOUT INTELLIGENCE.

Of course you can't do that, because all of those actions require intelligence. No, don't copy & paste the same "explanation" you gave to me. It doesn't apply. You're giving me an explanation of natural selection, not explaining how cells make agreements or act selfishly or become multicellular in order to survive. Cells don't become multicellular in order to survive, they become multicellular because of natural selection. There is no "in order to." It simply happens.

Your metaphor broke the fuck down 20 miles back. Call AAA.

Originally Posted by Omnis Dei

And Laughing Man. It seems the reason to me that you have no interest in formulating cohesive responses to my argument is because you don't have any interest in understanding what I'm saying. Let me just apologize right quick for being wrong, okay?

I am wrong about everything I say. You are infallible. Now that we've settled what's what, please feel free to lurk moar.

Just because you are wrong doesn't mean I am infallible. See there you go again making incoherent statements.