365 million-year-old fish/tetrapod fossil found

[skysaw]

Interesting read... WASHINGTON - Scientists unearthed a skull of the most primitive four-legged creature in Earth's history, which should help them better understand the evolution of fish to advanced animals that walk on land. The 365 million-year-old fossil skull, shoulders and part of the pelvis of the water-dweller, Ventastega curonica, were found in Latvia, researchers report in a study published in Thursday's issue of the journal Nature. Even though Ventastega is likely an evolutionary dead-end, the finding sheds new details on the evolutionary transition from fish to tetrapods. Tetrapods are animals with four limbs and include such descendants as amphibians, birds and mammals. Link

[Lunica]

ace

[Universal Mind]

That is impossible. Earth is only 6,000 years old.

[Lunica]

lmfao

[Lunica]

and I wanna add this face

[bluefinger]

That is impossible. Earth is only 6,000 years old. Lulz... Fundie-ness... needs more capitalisation and threats of eternal damnation.

[Serkat]

Then why don't we see snakes giving birth to 365-million years old tetrapod fossils today?

[Taosaur]

It's only authoritative if found adjacent to more and less developed specimens in precise imitation of Darwin's tree diagram, with an affadavit reading "I did not put this here xoxo satan" dated and notarized by God.

[skysaw]

I thought it only counted if we found a representative complete and still-connected skeleton of every single permutation between the fossil in question and a human being.

[Universal Mind]

I thought it only counted if we found a representative complete and still-connected skeleton of every single permutation between the fossil in question and a human being. But then you would have to prove that Yahweh didn't create them by blowing clay, and you can never prove that. So we win.

[skysaw]

But then you would have to prove that Yahweh didn't create them by blowing clay, and you can never prove that. So we win. Curses! Foiled again!

[StephL]

Famous hypothetical Darwin fish found!! Ten years older than the OP's fish! So I thought, I'd necro this thread with my find - the find is old news - and the fish is most definitively dead as well. I wasn't aware, there really was as substantial a gap left as a missing fish with limbs, until this fossil was found in 2004! The Real Darwin Fish - Why creationists hate Tiktaalik: A beauty it is not - at least not in that state of affairs: We all know the Darwin fish, the car-bumper send-up of the Christian ichthys symbol, or Jesus fish. Unlike the Christian symbol, the Darwin fish has, you know, legs. But the Darwin fish isn't merely a clever joke; in effect, it contains a testable scientific prediction. If evolution is true, and if life on Earth originated in water, then there must have once been fish species possessing primitive limbs, which enabled them to spend some part of their lives on land. And these species, in turn, must be the ancestors of four-limbed, land-living vertebrates like us. Sure enough, in 2004, scientists found one of those transitional species: Tiktaalik roseae, a 375-million-year-old Devonian period specimen discovered in the Canadian Arctic by paleontologist Neil Shubin and his colleagues. Tiktaalik, explains Shubin on the latest episode of the Inquiring Minds podcast, is an "anatomical mix between fish and a land-living animal." "It has a neck," says Shubin, a professor at the University of Chicago. "No fish has a neck. And you know what? When you look inside the fin, and you take off those fin rays, you find an upper arm bone, a forearm, and a wrist." Tiktaalik, Shubin has observed, was a fish capable of doing a push-up. It had both lungs and gills. In sum, it's quite the transitional form. Creationists snipe, raise doubt, and deny almost everything that we know, but the reason that Tiktaalik is such a momentous find appears to be beyond them: Evolutionary theory (complemented by an extensive knowledge of geology) predicted not only that this fish would have existed, but also that its fossilized remains would probably be found within a specific part of the world, in geological layers of a particular age. Hence, Shubin's many trips with his team to the Canadian Arctic, where those rock layers could be found. "We designed this expedition with the goal of finding this exact fossil," explains Shubin. "And we used the tools of evolution and geology as discovery tools to make a prediction about where to look. And the prediction was confirmed." Tiktaalik isn't just proof of evolution; it's also proof that the scientific process works.

[Universal Mind]

365 million year old thread found

[StephL]

[Original Poster]

If land animals came from sea animals, why are there still sea animals?

[Universal Mind]

If Eve came from a rib, why are there still ribs?

[Original Poster]

If earth came from stardust, why are there still stars?

[StephL]

If land animals came from sea animals, why are there still sea animals? Because the ones fit for the water stayed there, while the ones under some sort of environmental pressure went to boldly go where no fish had been before. To go live on the edge and even transgress and over millions of years - adorable little ugly fish. And fish like it are our direct ancestors - so we might make it to the stars? If earth came from stardust, why are there still stars? They get born and die - and they still do - stellar nebulae like this one are their cribs: Pretty funky I would say. If Eve came from a rib, why are there still ribs? WTF???

[Original Poster]

Nonsense. Darwinism is a sham. Long live Ken Ham because if some things can change into other things then all things must change into other things. Look at a damned banana, it comes with a tab. If God didn't exist, he wouldn't give us tabs on our bananas. And if Satan didn't exist, he wouldn't hide spiders in side banana bunches. Don't you get it, the perfection of the universe demands that God exists! And the imperfection of the universe demands Satan exists!

[Universal Mind]

Because the ones fit for the water stayed there, while the ones under some sort of environmental pressure went to boldly go where no fish had been before. To go live on the edge and even transgress and over millions of years - adorable little ugly fish. And fish like it are our direct ancestors - so we might make it to the stars? Satan worshiper!

[TimeDragon97]

If we came from God, how could there still be God?

[StephL]

If everything has a creator - who created god? pope.gif I was joking with my husband, and he suggested to dedicate a day to the fish - for the atheist fun-time calender. We go to a beach, put on a jolly fish-costume, and only our arms stick out, and then we hop onto land and re-enact this historical happening. Once outside, we consume alcoholic juices from fruit having fallen from a tree of knowledge. There had to be one, and we decorate it nicely and dangle from it actual interesting pieces of knowledge - on strings for people to take away. The tree stuff just comes to my mind now - my husband is only responsible for hopping about on the beach in costumes. I'm sure, I would have many more ideas for such a thing! Hm ..

[Original Poster]

Wait, you think the tree of knowledge of good and evil is based on eating rotten fruit? Nothing about the natural loss of innocence through the rite of adolescence, or better yet the inception of totalitarian farming which pushed man from basking in simplicity to toiling the earth? I'm just saying, it's a little reductionist.

[StephL]

LOL.gif

[StephL]

You can do with the above smiley, what you can do with a silhouette illusion*. Change the direction of turning - just saw that myself. It's also just alternating images. Or am I imagining things? * see here: http://www.dreamviews.com/lounge/147...illusions.html For now: