Thread: Should Israel exist

Originally posted by bradybaker
How about Timothy McVeigh and the Unabomber? Where were they from? Oh right, the US. Sheesh, I almost forgot.

Maybe you "almost forgot" to read my entire post where I said "most" terrorists and suicide bombers. Read the whole thing before making smart-ass comments, please.

Originally posted by bradybaker

How about Timothy McVeigh and the Unabomber? Where were they from? Oh right, the US. Sheesh, I almost forgot.

Don't label an entire group of nations as terrorists. We're having problems with extremists and fundamentalits, not Middle Easterners and Islamics.

Those cases are much more rare and in those cases they are not a group. While maybe warped, they were intelligent and again usually work, if not on their own but a very limited base of people.
They were not brainwashed by any religion.

Originally posted by RyanParis
If Israel is allowed to exist, then a nation for all-Whites, all-blacks, all-Asians, ect, should exist, too.

Otherwise it's racist.

Well, that IS what Democracy is all about, though many people don't seem to understand that. Woodrow Wilson, almost a hundred years ago came out with the much publicized notion that Democracy consists of and leads to Ethnic Self Determination. That should have horrified the World, but it didn't. It should have horrified Americans, as America is a very ethnically diverse community, but it didn't. And then after Adolf Hitler took Wilson's Doctrine under advisement and with so very few changes turned it into NAZIism, it should have horrified the World, but it didn't... everyone pretended that the NAZIs and now they pretend the ZIONists, and the Muslims now in Europe are somehow aberrations to at the processes of Democracy must inevitably lead to.

Democratic Institutions are in their very essential Nature Ethnocentric and Racist, set to put Race against Race, Class against Class, Group against Group.

Democracy is self-defined as a system that allows 51% to tyrannize over the other 49%, but often it is worse than that. In Parliamentary Systems often no single party can attain an electoral plurality and so Governments are formed of Coalitions. The way Coalitions often work out is that a sizeable Minority Party can hold out for disproportionate Power. It is how the NAZIs achieved control of German Politics, and how the Zionists have achieved control of Israeli Politics.

The advantage of Democracy is supposed to be that it provides a means by which the People are represented in Government. But do the Math. The Losers are NOT represented, are they? 49% or even more of the people have their interests and concerns hijacked by either slim majorities, or minorities who were able to twist arms into power.

We need to go back to having a King of the World that institutes a Bureaucratic Government open entirely in terms of Merit. No longer must we be enslaved by the forces of Bribery and Ethnic Bigotry, which is all that Democracy reduces down to.

Originally posted by Dickie
I said no, because as it is at the moment, it is pretty much the cause of most of the conflict in the world today. TBH, seeing as neithter Greece nor Turkey seem to be able to agree on who should have Cyprus, why didn't they clear both of them off the island and make that Israel?! But, seeing as we can't go back and stop it, lets fix it. As for how, I'm not too sure, but thats what needs working out.






Erm...sorry to be a bit nit-picky but England, Scotland and Wales are countries in their own rights, but they are part of the United Kingdom (Which consists of England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland). Would have been better to phrase it "Now, if the UK would like to clear off Scotland or Wales and present that...blah blah blah..." *

Although, at the time, the area was a British Colony, and so this was probably a similar situation to what you suggest! But yeah, I'm going to shut up before I dig a very deep hole...

What we have in Cyprus is Political Instablity. You see, back before the settlements that transformed the World after the First World War, almost the entire Near East was within the jurisdictions of the Ottoman Empire. When England, France and the United States took it upon themselves to carve up this vast Ottoman Empire, unthinkingly, they created a situation in which nobody involved felt that the new borders established were actually legitimate. Why should they? It was not their decision, and in many respects it was not their War. England, France and America wanted to punish the Turks for having chosen the Losing Side and so broke a huge Political Jurisdiction into tiny and unworkable pieces. And the People involved should fall in line why?

History shows that it usually takes about 120 Years for a disrupted Political Jurisdiction to stabilize and achieve what is perceived as popular Legitimacy. Any Stateman would think twice before disturbing that sense of Legitimacy. But Democracies do not elect Stateman, do they? We get the George W. Bushes. We get Actors. We get loud mouth professional wrestlers. We get people who never got higher than a C in social studies.

So, yes, there is a struggle in Cyprus. There is a struggle in Cyprus because people almost a century ago could not leave well enough alone.


And about Scottland and Wales being Sovereign Countries. Well, so what. The Ottoman Empire was sovereign. And the the Palestinian People as a nation were promised Sovereignty. If the English can so disregard the wishes and ambitions of the Palestinian People, then by what new Principle should they give a rat's ass what the Nations of Scottland or Wales think about any equal injustice done to them.

You see, that is what is ultimately wrong with the International Support being given to Isreal, Britain and America as they conduct their War against Palestine and the rest of the Near East, that it sets up a precedent whereby it excuses any de facto Super Power that would desire to commit any stupid injustice simply because they have the Military Power to get away with it. The World fought the NAZIs, so why should we let Britain, America and Israel get away with the same crap?

Originally posted by burns91
Maybe you "almost forgot" to read my entire post where I said "most" terrorists and suicide bombers. Read the whole thing before making smart-ass comments, please.

Regardless, your blanket statements about the state of the Middle East were wholly unjustified. That was my point.

I suppose you think that Katrina was a good thing because it wiped out the ghettos of New Orleans and made way for the rich folk to buy up all the prime real estate?

Originally posted by mongreloctopus
Let's give it to the Tibetans.

About Tibet. Many people complain that China has assumed jurisdiction. But we need to understand that China has long political memory. In the 12th Century the tribes that populated Tibet threw in with the Mongolians from the North in their invasion of China. At the time Delegates of Imperial China had warned the Tibetan Tribesman that there would be consequences for invading China. Well, they weren't lying, were they?

Then we need to examine who can do the better job managing Tibet. Before the Chinese, Tibet was in the grips of a bunch of fraudulent Holy Men -- scotch drinking, ciggerette smoking "Holy Men". Even if one assumes they take their published Religion seriously, we can evaluate it against the Higher Religions of the World and see Tibetanism as just so much competitive Witchcraft... and a sexist witchcraft, because they allow women to have no part in it. Oh, except as sexual objects. We can look at Tibetan Tantric Doctrine and find that the Tibetan Religion has made a virtue out of the predatory rape of women by these so-called "religious" Monks.

So let the Dalai Lama compose his pretty books... I suspect he largely plagiarizes... using all the cliches that are the common language of all those with an elementary education in Eastern Philosophy. But Tibet is in better hands with the Chinese.

Hey... why is it that all the comments are from NO people but the votes are coming in YES. I smell a rat. The YES people must be Jews.. or other people absent enough in their moral sense while being clever enough to scheme and cheat, who are registering multiple votes.

Originally posted by burns91


So I suppose you think it's a good thing that most terrorists and suicide bombers come from the Middle East? They want to kill us all! There will never be peace there.

I didn't post to start an argument, only to express my opinion (which I believe what the whole point of this topic). And as a DG, maybe you should not be so "insensitive."

Well, yes, they DO want to kill us all, that is UNTIL WE SURRENDER.

We perpetrated an injustice, and yes, to make all of the bad consequences of this injustice go way, we might have to Surrender and make amends.

Zionism and Zionists Sympathizizers committed every Injustice consciously and with their eyes wide open. The Democracies that gave them the opportunities to commit these Evils never tried to stop these Evils. It was not as though the Palestinians were quiet and uncomplaining. The Palestinian Leadership was vocal in its complaints and petitions for redress for some 30 years before the first act of overt Terrorism.

They appealed for Justice and we spit in their face. They warned us and we spit in their face. Now they finally bring War to our door and the idiots amoung us are trying to maintain that it is all their fault. It is all were not so Life and Death it would be ludicrous.

Originally posted by mongreloctopus
The real problem here is not with israel or palestine, but with god. *lets get rid of that asshole, and all the problems will be solved.

The largest and most destructive Wars in the History of the World have largely been either Barbaric or Secular. Just look at Europe. Enlightened Atheists have been in charge of Europe since the French Revolution. Things have only gone from bad to worst, no? The Russian Revolution -- Secular. The Chinese Revolution -- Secular. The Cambodian Massecres and all of the Ethnic Cleansing in Africa -- Secular.

Besides, your problem is not with God but with a few particular Religions that have hijacked their Institutions away from any Godly Influence. the Jews have not had a Temple in 2000 years. The Jews have no central Religious Authority -- there is no Jewish Pope. What now passes for Jewish Religion is a Worship of Real Estate and an Affirmation of Racial Supremacy. The Higher Religions of the World utterly reject any kinship with such preposterous assertions.

As for the Muslims. Do you really think that their Religions has anything to do with them being angry about having their leaders and children being assassinated and their houses bulldozed, and being interred into Refugee Camps for 50 years at a time. Yes, it would be great, for the Zionists, if the Muslims had a Religion that would persuade them to roll up and die every time Satan went on the Offensive; however, can we really suppose their View of God is so distorted if they have persuaded themselves that God must somehow and sometime finally remember, appreciate and uphold Justice.

Originally posted by bradybaker

How about Timothy McVeigh and the Unabomber? Where were they from? Oh right, the US. Sheesh, I almost forgot.

Don't label an entire group of nations as terrorists. We're having problems with extremists and fundamentalits, not Middle Easterners and Islamics.

Well, the problem is the selective use of the word Terrorist. How are the Israeli Assassination Teams not Terrorist. How are American Missiles indiscriminately slaughtering families having Sunday Dinner in Pakistan not Terrorist.

It has gotten crazy, when the Americans use the word "terrorist" to designate irregular militia troops operating in Iraq persuant to a unalateral and what we now was an entirely unprovoked War instigated by the United States and its lacky Great Britain.

And it is annoying that we must hear Politians talk endlessly about the 'cowardly' terrorists. These are politicians who used family influence to hide from War when they were young enough to be expected to fight. But they call people who brave certain death to be 'cowards'. It simply is not right. Such lies must certainly offend the ears of God whether God approves of the Struggle or not. Even if they are wrong a thousand ways, they certainly are not cowards.

Now, Americans and Israelis who send missiles down from a mile high in the sky, knowing full well that they will be killing innocents along with their questionably valuable targets. Are these not the true terrorists and cowards.

The Americans and the Israelis hide behind Techno War like spoiled sissy boys behind a fat and stupid mother's skirts. If it were a Man to Man fight, Palestine would have had their Nation back 43 years ago.

Originally posted by Darkmatic
I couldn't find the "Bomb the fuck out of them" option , so i just chose no . But seriously , they should cool it over there and just chill out . 8)

What when the Zionists kick you off your property and consign you to a Refugee Camp. Will you be so ready to chill out?

I voted yes and will say it publicly bash me is you want I have my reasons. I am sadden by the fact there are so many nos. I am disappointed in many events that have taken place lately doesn't mean I think Israel should not exist. Darn some of the post here remind me that maybe I am one of the few that believe in a God around these parts.

Originally posted by ravenqueen
I voted yes and will say it publicly bash me is you want I have my reasons. I am sadden by the fact there are so many nos. I am disappointed in many events that have taken place lately doesn't mean I think Israel should not exist. Darn some of the post here remind me that maybe I am one of the few that believe in a God around these parts.

Well, I honestly think that a family of jews should just knock down your door and throw you and your children out on the straight, with the explanation that God loves them, and that you and your family are second rate and subhuman.

That is what you would deserve. If you would take fairness away from others, you should have it taken from you.

Originally posted by Leo Volont


Well, I honestly think that a family of jews should just knock down your door and throw you and your children out on the straight, with the explanation that God loves them, and that you and your family are second rate and subhuman. *

That is what you would deserve. * If you would take fairness away from others, you should have it taken from you.

I honestly think that if "The Jews" did that to me, then I would be praying to God for support and forgiveness for those who think they have the right to decide that I love You, My Lord, less than them. I have done nothing to hurt "The Jews" I love all. That is my mission. To be open minded and to accept all. God is the judge, not me. Fairness is not an issue here because most of the human life has not been fair. Fairness means "equal" there is nothing in this world that is "fair". So its not just Jews who would knock on my door to kick me out. It will anyone who thinks they are better then me. I respect Jewish people and embrace them. I also no matter how it sounds respect Muslims. God has chosen to place us in the places we are. Did we chose them? No we didn't we didn't chose where we landed. So put yourself in the position of thoses that you are glad that your not . What kept you from being there?

Originally posted by ravenqueen


I honestly think that if *"The Jews" did that to me, then I would be praying to God *for support *and forgiveness for those who think they have the right to decide that I love You, My Lord, less than them. I have done nothing to hurt *"The Jews" I love all. That is my mission. To be open minded and to accept all. God is the judge, not me. Fairness is not an issue here because most of the human life has not been fair. Fairness means "equal" there is nothing in this world that is "fair". So its not just Jews who would knock on my door to kick me out. It will anyone who thinks they are better then me. I respect Jewish people and embrace them. I also no matter how it sounds respect Muslims. God has chosen to place us in the places we are. Did we chose them? No we didn't we didn't chose where we landed. So put yourself in the position of thoses that you are glad that your not . What kept you from being there?

Okay, so you have no problem with Jews. Do you also have no problem with other thieves, intruders, invaders and marauders.

And then we need to ask you why you hate the Palestinians. This is not just a question about letting Jews be the Chosen People. It is about letting the Jews play out their Delusional Fantacy at the expense of the Palestinian People.

Your indulgence to the Jews plays out as hate and sensitivity for the Palestinians. You are not allowed to be openhearted with the Jews without being reminded that you are participating in a Crimes against the Palestinian People.

Again, I pray to God that you and your family might begin to feel some of the sufferings of the Palestinian People until you might begin to understand something about Moral Responsibility.

What I don't understand: the United States helps the bandit state of Israel kill it's enemies, but the United States didn't help Nazi Germany.

Ariel Sharon might as well be United States president.

Ryan and Brady...awesome replies.

And Burns...what is the point of you addressing the fact that I am a DG and should be more sensitive? You expressed your opinion and I expressed mine. Am I not allowed to have an opinion because I am a Dream Guide? Haha...please.....

Originally posted by Aquanina
And Burns...what is the point of you addressing the fact that I am a DG and should be more sensitive? You expressed your opinion and I expressed mine. Am I not allowed to have an opinion because I am a Dream Guide? Haha...please.....

I'm not saying you're not allowed to have an opinion, but since DG's are supposed to set an example of fair play, calling someone's response moronic doesn't really seem as "sensitive" as you want everyone else to be. I don't want to argue with you, but you didn't even want to give a reason you voted the way you did, so maybe think twice before cutting others down who did voice their reasons. 8)

Originally posted by burns91


I'm not saying you're not allowed to have an opinion, but since DG's are supposed to set an example of fair play, calling someone's response moronic doesn't really seem as "sensitive" as you want everyone else to be. I don't want to argue with you, but you didn't even want to give a reason you voted the way you did, so maybe think twice before cutting others down who did voice their reasons. *8)

Haha. Nice sunglasses.

Anyway, I didn't feel like getting into the whole debate because it's just way too personal for me...considering the fact that I am Palestinian and I am an evil terrorist who is bent on destroying the world...er something like that. So yeah, I figured I'd let other INTELLIGENT people argue for me instead. And they seem to be doing a swell job. And if a post is moronic then I will state it as such...

For example saying the whole middle east shouldn't exist...without realizing WHY there is so much turmoil there...is indeed in my opinion moronic.

But as I've said, I should just stay out of this debate...hits a bit too close to home....

Originally posted by Aquanina
Anyway, I didn't feel like getting into the whole debate because it's just way too personal for me...considering the fact that I am Palestinian and I am an evil terrorist who is bent on destroying the world...er something like that. So yeah, I figured I'd let other INTELLIGENT people argue for me instead. And they seem to be doing a swell job. And if a post is moronic then I will state it as such...

For example saying the whole middle east shouldn't exist...without realizing WHY there is so much turmoil there...is indeed in my opinion moronic.

But as I've said, I should just stay out of this debate...hits a bit too close to home....

Didn't mean to offend, but the nature of this topic unfortunately leaves a lot of room for ill feelings toward other members' responses. And, I DO have an understanding about why there is so much unrest in the middle east, so my comment was not an ignorant statement, but my personal opinion based on the question. It may be "moronic" to you, but I call tell you I'm not the only one who thinks this way. So maybe it's a good idea for BOTH of us to stay out of this debate! 8)

Originally posted by Leo Volont


Okay, so you have no problem with Jews. *Do you also have no problem with other thieves, intruders, invaders and marauders.

And then we need to ask you why you hate the Palestinians. *This is not just a question about letting Jews be the Chosen People. *It is about letting the Jews play out their Delusional Fantacy at the expense of the Palestinian People.

Your indulgence to the Jews plays out as hate and sensitivity for the Palestinians. *You are not allowed to be openhearted with the Jews without being reminded that you are participating in a Crimes against the Palestinian People. *

Again, I pray to God that you and your family might begin to feel some of the sufferings of the Palestinian People until you might begin to understand something about Moral Responsibility.

Once again you are assuming I hate someone. I don't hate the Palestinians. I do believe I should stop talking now because Everything I say has hidden meaning to Leo.

dude leo that was 6 posts in a row. do you know what the edit button is?

EDIT: oh and BTW, in answer to one of your posts (can't remember which one it was), the one about the poeple who voted yes: The people who voted yes probably didnt realize there was dispute about Isreal or it being a country and whatnot, so when they realized there were reasons enough to illigetimize its existance, they probably left, not wanting to look stupid.

Where'd all the metaphors go?

I think the real question is what is the cause of any problems that have developed and how would we solve them.

Nuking all of the middle east is not the answer obviously. I would place considerable blame on the world governments and particularly those involved in the scandels. People who have had a job to do that have not done it. Ignorance and greed has also played a part. And those turning a blind eye and letting things get so out of hand are just as responsible. Ultimately we are all responsible.

I'm not going to vote for a yes no question like that because Israel exists so we must deal with it. Just like all countries exist. You can call China, America, Europe. Any country. Call them Joe bob for all I care. The land and people are still present. The states and the divided names and borders are illusionary creations. Just as the states of America were united. So will hopefully the world become united in due time.

What wrong with nuking? Well I guess nerve gass would be more humane.