Thread: North Korea, STOP IT, its really annoying

I thought it was obvious. We don't deal because theres nothing we want.

hey leo, thanks for teaching me a new word (intransigence)...

i agree that american policy is one of the biggest problems in the world currently.

however, some of us in other countries would seem to be deluded in feeling smug and superior in regards to our own governance.

blair was only too happy to rub georgie off in exchange for being a bigshot for awhile, and harper is currently following bush's every move with a wistful look in his beady little eyes, and only too happy to strut around afghanistan like a commander in chief.

so, certain brits and canucks should be chastised for accepting our goverments as much as certain yanks shoudl.

a willing lapdog is partially responsible for every decision their master makes from his chair of power (and america has many lapdogs). yet it seems many of those citizens whom the lapdogs represent are only too happy to accept the illusion that our "power" and "influence" is an inherent quality of national sovereignity, simply because our leaders come home to eat, sleep, breed, and shit mounds.

their only true power is fed to them as scraps from the hand of almighty george, in exchange for sitting still like good little mutts and barking on cue. and by the same token, my influence (and the influence of many people in many countries) as a citizen is only a formality...an illusion.

in the same way that every willing worker in an arms factory has no right to feel smug in knowing "i do not support violence in theory", every willing citizen of america and its lapdogs has no right to feel smug in knowing "i do not support american policy", when they willingly give up their power to be transferred by various mechanisms into the hand of that goddam monkey of an antichrist and his business partners

it is people who pretend to be blameless and "against" american policy, and yet continue to pay taxes to the US or its cronies, throw in their meaningless vote (or do not "on principle") each election, and accept their scrap of a scrap of a scrap of ill-gotten plunder (symbolically the flesh of the murdered and oppressed?) with little more than a couple furtive glances sideways to make sure everyone else is eating their share (regardless of whether that mouth claims to love the bush administration or detest it once they are well-fed)...perhaps occasionally adding a little dash of the bitterness of empty guilt in order to avoid indigestion at enjoying their hypocrisy a little too much.

i speak only for myself. only oneself can effectively chastise oneself anyways.

in essence, i was trying to say that the big problem of america is ultimately composed of the small problems which collectively grovel in subservience to their master, at best dragging their heels a bit when called.

i am america's bitch. talk is cheap. action is all that really matters in the end.

if "america" is evil, all those who do not fully revolt and refuse to aid them in any way are by association also evil in varying degrees.

blah blah blah

heh...i'm grumpy today

Let them arm all they want--they've got a distinct disadvantage if it comes down to shots being fired[/b]

That's a tad bit of an understatement.

"Hans, Hans, Hans! We've been frew this a dozen times. I don't have any weapons of mass destwuction, OK Hans? " *
"Then let me look around, so I can ease the UN's collective mind. I'm sorry, but the UN must be firm with you. Let me in, or else."
"Or else what?" *
"Or else we will be very angry with you... and we will write you a letter, telling you how angry we are. "[/b]

Originally posted by Jess

Oh I agree, but there's lots of Americans on this forum so I keep my mouth shut!

Relax, most Americans hate our foreign policy, too. We just don't know what to do, the lobbyists are making all the decisions, not us, it's like living in an oligarchy.

they only way to get the spot light in this world is to make a threat.

vicarious.

***

and as far as america's international policy goes...

i hope we continue to do shit our way.

china can shut down north korea's nuclear program with the swipe of a pen... i don't expect them to... i expect we will do it for them. and i'm comfortable with that.

Originally posted by adidas
they only way to get the spot light in this world is to make a threat.

vicarious.

***

and as far as america's international policy goes...

i hope we continue to do shit our way.

china can shut down north korea's nuclear program with the swipe of a pen... i don't expect them to... i expect we will do it for them. and i'm comfortable with that.

You're forgetting that the last two times America went to War in East Asia, they had to leave via the Peace Table both times. America surrendered. Both times. After tens of thousands of American Soldiers had to die. And for what? Why is America getting involved in East Asian Policies. Should we not allow that China should have some equivalent of our Monroe Doctrine? What business is it of America's

Oh, the American's complain that all these Little Countries are coming after tham -- Targeting the American Way of Life. Oh, Bull Crap! If America would back off its intrusive Imperialism... its constant demand for Sanctions against Everybody for Everything, and its unconditional support for these Regional Little Pro-American Regimes... if America would only mind its own business... Like Canada or Brazil... then they too would have not a shadow of a problem in the World.

Oh, and I do hope that every American who wishes America to go to war is of Military Age and is willing to enlist for the fight that they propose. I've read that the U. S. Army will now take Privates as old as 40. So all you 20 and 30 Somthings have no excuse. So don't send others off to die for your Foreign Policy Meglomania when you can go die yourself. olcon

We don't have a problem anyway. Seriously people can yell and scream all they want but neither north korea or iran will ever try nuking us. Infact there probably isn't another country in the world that would seriously attack us.

Some super power we are, we spend more than the rest of the world combined on our military and people are seriously scared that some tiny backwards country is going to attack us.

I don't know why there is such fear in the american people. Actually I do know why but I probably shouldn't say it because it will offend people.

The only real nuclear threat is from small terrorist cells. Every nation in this world is afraid to be the first to pull a shot in a nuclear war, because they know it'll come back to bite them in the arse. Terrorist or extremist (same thing, really) groups are the only ones who are single-minded and crazy enough to actually try to set off a nuke. And if they do, we'll only have a semi-decent chance to stop them. Nukes are hard to build, which is nearly the only barrier that terrorists face. Once constructed, a small nuclear weapon can fit into a shop vacuum or perhaps something a little smaller (Though suitcase weapons aren't particularly feasible, their existence is mostly based in Hollywood exaggerations, and regardless, they're far beyond the means of terrorists).

I personally don't even think the terrorist is likely. Small groups can never get their hands on one and large groups are not that crazy. Sure they are not as easy of a target as a country but they would still be hunted down like dogs. Its definitely not going to get them any closer to their goal. To really be a threat they would also need more than one, one shot is just going to be enough to piss everyone off.

So I really am not to worried about nukes. Now if I lived on the other side of the world, then I might be a little more worried, not over here though.

Yeah, I guess you're right there.

Most people do not realize this, but the North Korean problem had been completely solved. The Clinton Administration had set up meetings and there were Talks and then an agreement was reached. North Korea would shut down its Weapons Programs in exchange or the United States building two safe Nuclear Reactors in North Korea while supplying fuel oil to the traditional Power Plants while the Nuclear Reactors were under contruction. Everyone shuck hands and the North Koreans actually did shut down their Weapons Programs, even allowing international monitoring.

But at the time the Clinton Administration was dealing with a Republican Majority in the House and the Senate, and they hung up the funding for the Nuclear Reactors and the Oil until after the Election. and then when Gerorge Bush became president, the deal was simply thrown out. George Bush's reasoning there was that since he could not trust the North Koreans to keep up their side of the deal, then he would back out of his end of the deal. To a 'C' Average Student, that makes all the sense in the World.

Anyway, North Korea continued to abide by the terms of the deal for 4 full years without the United States seeming to make even the first move toward abiding by their terms of the agreement. Finally they had enough and turned off the International Monitoring Cameras and all such measures that were to monitor their compliance. And then, of course, the Bush Administation instantly came out and announced that the North Koreans had reneged on their Agreement.

Yeah.

And all of the American News Organizations ran the story exactly as it was given to them by the White House. NOBODY reported the facts.

That may be the largest part of the problem with those belligerent war mongering Americans.... they don't have any independent News. All they get is 24 Hour Propaganda Services.

Honestly, the Entire World is probably lucky that America is so bogged down in the Balkans, Afghanistan and Iraq, or we'd have to worry about them invading Poland and then the World. We must be careful or we will find ourselves having to speak English.

Oh, I recently heard that the European Union is going to start supplying Troops to fill in for American Soldiers in the Balkans and Iraq, so that America will have some ley way to expand its aggressions to other areas of the World.

Well, we should have had such inspired decision making back in the Nineteen Thirties. England and France could have supplied Hitler with troops to hold down Austria and Czechoslavakia. It would have made Hitler's gambit for the World so much more successful, and would have avoided nearly all of the bloodshead of World War II... well, except for the dead Jews, Slavs, Czechs, Gypsies and Russians. But, hey, you can't have an omlet unless you're willing to break a few eggs.

So, yes, the rest of the World can easily avoid any threat of a conflict as long as they participate in all of America's aggressions. We can learn that lesson of History given us by World War II, that we don't have to fight against each other when we can all fight together.

Oh, yeah, and the Enemies have to be threatening enough to keep America's Arms Dealers busy. After all, The Arms Trade is America's last healthy manufacturing Industry (thank God that National Security Requirements have kept at least these factories in America, or the Arms we would use against China and Korea would have to have been manufactured in China and Korea.

Well if they were made in china the amount of weapons we have would be a fraction of what it is now, because there wouldn't be americans making huge profits off selling them to our own government.

It must be nice to be in another country and ride the backbone of Americas decisiveness rather than passiveness and act tough. Act like you have the answers.
No other countries step up to the plate for anything. Why should they. Let us be the bad guys. Because we are the strongest nation we can easily be perceived as the bully.
Thank Goodness we are. Other wise we would not be sharing opinions over the Internet.

North Korea kicked us out of their Nuclear power plants. Is this our fault? And by doing so what do you suppose they are attempting. Does heavy water ring as bell? Why kick us out?

As far as negotiations. We have been in an ongoing attempt to get the regions that have some negotiating powers over N. Korea try universal peace talks that can talk to Kim to try to convey a message to not attempt nuclear capabilities/

A nation that starves it's own people and puts every dime they have into their military does not seem like a good or nation that would be a good candidate for making trade negotiations...it is called black male.

Originally posted by Roller
It's like Kim Jong has a really bad ego problem

is he...lonely? >_>

Originally posted by Alric
We don't have a problem anyway. Seriously people can yell and scream all they want but neither north korea or iran will ever try nuking us. Infact there probably isn't another country in the world that would seriously attack us.

Some super power we are, we spend more than the rest of the world combined on our military and people are seriously scared that some tiny backwards country is going to attack us.

I don't know why there is such fear in the american people. Actually I do know why but I probably shouldn't say it because it will offend people.

I dont think there is that much fear in the american people, fear of another country that is. But im in college! And when youre in college everyone seems to be thinking on strange radical or stupid levels.........>_>;

from what I get is people think were being the agressive country, the country to fear. or, were being a goody tooshoo country who is actually helping smaller countries, becuase we all know everyone wants america to get involved in their politics and economy!

9-11 happened becuase of terrorists and they probably had a lot of reasons to hate us. but an actual country to fear?

I personally am afraid of my government *not just the current President* and big business! and lately they seem to be one and the same

I think its pretty clear we don't help anyone. One year of our military budget could probably feed the entire world for 20 years if not more. Instead we go around goofying around messing with everyone. Even people who say america is great know we don't really help anyone. Maybe every once in a while some good comes around but when you throw money at everything some of it is bound to go to some good.

Originally posted by Alric
I think its pretty clear we don't help anyone. One year of our military budget could probably feed the entire world for 20 years if not more. Instead we go around goofying around messing with everyone. Even people who say america is great know we don't really help anyone. Maybe every once in a while some good comes around but when you throw money at everything some of it is bound to go to some good.

That is a very ignorant statemanent. I would suggest you check some facts first before stating that.

Which part? That 500 billion dollars is enough to feed the world? Ok it won't feed "everyone". I should of been more clear, it will feed everyone who is hungry or living in a third world country in the world. My point was we could easily make it so no one has to starve anymore but we don't

I agree in part with Alric, and in part with Howetzer. First off, we cannot drop our military budget to zero. I don't think it needs to be 399 billion, but we DO need a military. The absence of one would only bait attacks against the USA. And IF we could distribute that $399 billion worth of food to all the needy, most of it would not reach them. Remember Somalia? Warlords stole the food and gave it out as they wanted, keeping much for themselves and giving none to others. Or in Iraq, with the massive Oil-For-Food scandal, intended to help the hungry masses, but in the end only filling bureaucrat's wallets.
Giving aid isn't as simple as it sounds. I agree that we should try harder to provide aid, but the way to doing that isn't by dropping the military and spending that money elsewhere.

I didn't really mean to say lets drop our military and send millions of dollars to people. My point was that we could do a ton more but we don't because we are wasting a ton of people on crap. Not just the military either, we send aid to a ton of countries and its just wasted. I don't understand why we send weapons to people either. We complain about all the countries building new weapons and stuff but half of the time we are sending the same stuff to people. If you look at the numbers none of the stuff really makes any sense.

As for aid being wasted thats because people are total morons. We shouldn't be sending any country even a single dime. Instead we should be going over there and buildings people farms and stuff. It would be a fraction of the cost and it would help the country actually improve themself instead of making them dependent on us. Like I said though, they really don't care which is why we don't do stuff like that.