Thread: Drugs Vrs. Sobriety- Spiritual Progression.

Originally Posted by fairytale

how does everyone feel about drugs (as a spiritual tool) ? iv been trying hard to develop my spiritual side. im at a point where im not sure if i should continue using drugs . part of me wants to go compleatly straight, and just be as pure as i can, and to be thankfull that im not insane. theres a fine line between genius and insanity, it apears. then another part of me feels like theres somthing huge iv forgotten, and that drugs could help me remember. also drugs are kind of romantic. but sometimes i get a bit of a sacreligious vibe from drugs , kind of like "this shouldnt be seen this way" i dont know. i have a bit of a fairytale complex. i guess im looking for advice. does drug enlightenment last or is it a sidetrack?
[/b]

That's an interesting question. Im not sure if there is really an answer. I haven't experimented too much with the heavier psychedelics but I know after the one and only time I did acid I felt like I wouldnt see certain things the same way ever again and eventually that feeling faded.

There was a thread I think or atleast I found a link in this forum to an article about the use of psylocybin causing brain activity in the same areas that are associated with a religious experience. That fact raises a lot of questions about spirituality... to me it just seems like a state of mind. Attainable with or without drugs.

I guess thats my two cents...

hey ho ..

I never tried anything harder than MJ, and I don't want to .. I smoke weed for the expansion of my consciousness ... nature feels different then - more intense, as well as certain facts of cases in life ... emotions ... music ...
It makes me think a lot, and I get a load of new ideas when I smoke .. it's like I am more open and lifted from a straight-rational view ... it shows that there is more to life than what we notice through our senses ..

I am not sure what happens if taking shrooms e.g. ... never done it, but I think MJ is a drug to make you think seriously about other aspects and their role in life (with me it's like that) .... idk if one is not lifted too far from the conscious ground if consuming shrooms, lsd or whatever ... I am not sure, if that puts one in such a different world, that it's just flat out dumb to consume those drugs .... my cousin is a Crystal - addict, when she is "celebrating halloween" she seriously thinks "I'm the only normal one - everybody else is so screwed!" .. that wouldn't be the sense of using a drug for me ...

So to get back to your point...
I guess meditating in a pretty excessive way would replace the weed (drug), would unfold more of positive results for inner balance, calmness and all those things that bug you or don't ....
The drug is just the easiest way to get there ... it's like: if you're lazy, use the drug ... but it will only temporarily cover what meditation would give you .. in the end, it's a bad substitute imo.

I am definately anti-drug on this one. Since when does spirituality need chemical help?

Drugs are a shortcut to having 'spiritual exeriences', however you must then ask yourself. Was it a true spiritual experience or was it just a mirage brought about by the chemical change in your brain.

Please note, 'spiritual experiences' are NOT the same thing as 'spirituality'.

I'm cool with using drugs and all, I like weed and plan on sometime trying shrooms or acid, but I wouldn't get your hopes up (or my hopes...) that it'll bring you a really life changing, enlightening experience. It'll be fun, but I wouldn't expect it to really bring you a huge spiritual change. Although some people who've tried shrooms and LSD say that it does alter how they view things in a positive way for a long time. But eh.

Just make sure you're not using drugs for the wrong reasons. I've been using them as an escape from all the shit that is life for me at the moment, and I know if I keep that up I'm probably going to end up screwing up, so I think I'm going to quit for a while. Use drugs for fun and carefully, in my opinion.

I think it's no secret that I'm a proponent of drug use for the sake of enlightenment, but Seeker is absolutely right on this one.

This site is all about lucid dreaming, which in and of itself has much greater potential than any drug you'll be able to find. Add in some meditation and you'll be able to trip as hard as you want and whenever you want. Not only that but you won't have to worry about stomach aches, bad trips, the development of psychosis, or demeaning labels such as 'hippie' or 'psychoactive chemical enthusiast.'

Of course, psychedelics can give you an experience much like those reached through lucid dreaming or meditation, and it doesn't take any training or experience. My friend's karate instructor was an avid meditator, and he told him that it's alright to use drugs to reach a spiritual experience, but then spend the rest of your life getting back there through natural means. This guy was a 4th degree or so black belt and he could do some pretty amazing moves. So if you're interested in doing great things with your life, this is probably the better approach to take.

I smoke MJ pretty regulairly. But I have also done Magic Mushrooms 3 times, LSA containing Hawaiian baby wood Rose seeds (3seeds were nuff&#33 and MDMA.

These experiences are VERY mindmoving: They give you insights into life and alot into yourself, you perceive everything from a different point of view: visually, tactile, Auditory, Emotionally All different. These can lead to very Creative Artistic Insights, in my case, and in life and how to have a better additude towards somethings. All this wisdom in a mushroom trip, goes Hand in hand with Delusional Insanity. It seems this wisdom only comes in a completely Insane way and can only be made [perfect and briljant sense of afterwards.

HOWEVER, these experiences are REALLY REALLY tough for your Psyche. And you need not to do it to yourself too frequently or too much: It will mess up your Mind. Carefully dosing yourself and doing something really heavy like Magic Mushrooms ONLY at most 4 times a year wouldnt do you any hamr.

But it's not something you should do 2 weeks in a row. And itt's so heavy and satisfying you don't want to either.


So weather it's wrong to use some natural Psychedelic drugs to induce Visionairy states? Well If you do it wisely, like I said: Don't over do it and do heavy experiences only at most 4 times year to spare you Mind, I think there'd be no Negative effects it can have on you ( Unless you easily have a bad trip? )

I Know that I love having such an experience and that somehow I always learn alot from it and gain 1000s of insights. I know it is wearing my Mind down so I always give my Mind a good, Psychoactive-Free, Full of sleep, Period of Rest to one weak after such a heavy experience.

Okay well as someone who's been around the block with psychedelics, there is no grand spiritual enlightenment you will achieve, but then again you can meditate for hours a day and still not find the answers you're looking for, you'll just find lot's of reasons why it doesn't matter.

During psychedelics everything may appear meaningful, but that's part of our design, life and the experiences within it are made to look meaningful.

And also, there is no purity you would actually gain from using drugs, and there's nothing sacreligious about them. They are what they are, mind altering substances, they seem edgy because certain people don't understand them and group them together with other drugs that can lead you down the path of an addict.

Hmmm... I tried WILDing while drunk this weekend. Guess how that turned out...

Sorry for not adding to the discussion, I'm going to go feel guilty now...

Originally Posted by DoomedOne

Okay well as someone who's been around the block with psychedelics, there is no grand spiritual enlightenment you will achieve, but then again you can meditate for hours a day and still not find the answers you're looking for, you'll just find lot's of reasons why it doesn't matter.

During psychedelics everything may appear meaningful, but that's part of our design, life and the experiences within it are made to look meaningful.

And also, there is no purity you would actually gain from using drugs, and there's nothing sacreligious about them. They are what they are, mind altering substances, they seem edgy because certain people don't understand them and group them together with other drugs that can lead you down the path of an addict.
[/b]

I'm not saying that what happens or what appears in Mushroom Trips is Real. I know these are ONLY experiences cuz in Reality Nothing Changed. It only appeared changed because your State of Mind and poitn of view is altered. I know it's a process that takes place in OUR HEADS only: They're mere experiences. Not Like many New Age weirdos claim taking place in some sort of Spirit world. It is only their INTERPRETATION of this Paradox that takes place in our heads. Magic Mushrooms change you, not the world around you. When I speak of gaining Artistic Creativity through Mushroom Trips I didn't mean Reaching Enlightment: I just meant remembering surreal visions and thoughts I had in trips that I draw into my drawings.


Same could be said for Dreaming. Only it is the Natural and most Deep Trance that exists: no Psychedelic Could exceed that: it's because it's totally not the Same thing.

A magic Mushroom is so weird: It DOES make you feel hazy and really dreamy and typical Mushroom Hallucinations are Clearly Hypnagogic Sleep Hallucinations that ended up being perceived by the Waking Mind, but it has such a destinct character as to how it makes you feel. Allthough a Mushroom trip feels like a sort of hazy ''Sleep'' that comes over you it's also a bit like Psychedelic Feverish. But, then again, also a 1000 things more than just that: It's so Characteristic and The feelings have such a Typical nature of it's own

It is something COMPLETELY Different from Dreaming( Which I find to be true Enlightment ).


DoomedOne, have you ever Experienced a Psilocybin Mushroom Trip?
And yeah I am curious after having Read about many PsychoActive plants. However the ones I am interrested in trying are only Mescaline Cactus and DMT: 2 physically harmless substances.
Most Psychedelics are, as often thought the opposite, nontoxic and not harmfull for the Human Body. Neither are Mushrooms: You may only experience some Dehydration during the Trip, but Filling up 5 LiterBottles of Water beforehand should take care of that.

psychedelics/entheogens are valuable tools which i use to gain glimpses into my future evolution. mushrooms in particular give me a clarity of thought/awareness which is unsurpassed in normal waking life.

for instance, a defining characteristic of bemushrooment is a feeling of "coming home" to complete union with the universe, accompanied by a compassion/love/joy for all of life.

much of my waking life is spent trying to recapture this state of being without the aid of plants or fungi.
-----

in my most vivid, realistic lucid dream i had unsurpassed purity of awareness. i was wholly within the moment.

i remember thinking with joy something like "the reality i experience with mushrooms, during meditation, and right now are all the same. only the outward form changes."

-------

i find that a part of me actually tries to avoid psychedelic experiences, as it knows that it will be weakened, and perhaps completely killed as a result.

call it "ego", "conditioning", "ignorance", whatever...

i had fleeting experiences as a child (obviously before using "drugs")where i suddenly felt whole and happy...eternal.

this state was at first only remembered with the aid of entheogens, though increasingly they are no longer required.

i will likely always consider psilocybin mushrooms as my sacrament, and use them whenever i feel they are needed. lately, only whenever the "eternal child", "true self", "buddha-mind", "christ-consciousness", or again, whatever you want to call it, is so stifled by materialistic concerns that it risks suffocating completely.

I feel that drugs that help you to look at things from a different perspective (hallucinogens, etc.) are very useful in terms of spiritual progression. These things allow you to look at all parts of your being, and help you to evaluate the type of person you are and the things about yourself that you need to change. Spirituality is different for everyone; to me, spirituality is knowing that I am connected to a bigger 'whole' something that connects us all. Using these drugs allows me to look into how I fit into these things, and what I as a person can do to help further that connection and make it stronger.

I've done shrooms, if that's what you're asking.