Should Israel exist

[dragonoverlord]

do you think the jewish state israel should exist? please vote in my poll yes or no and if you can leave a message sayhing why you voted that way.

[nina]

I voted NO. I don't have to explain why.

[InTheMoment]

I voted no also. However, I will explain why when I have some more time to give a valid response.

[Dangeruss]

It's kind of like trying to kick someone out of their seat at the lunch table because it was your seat last year. I vote no.

[Awhislyle]

I vote yes and because I love stupid metaphores Its sort of like accidently hitting the nuke button, but not cancelling it because its better to stay the course

[Roller]

This could get nasty... I vote no. To continue with the metaphors - If you build your house on an ant nest, then poke sticks at them, don't complain when you get bitten.

[Leo Volont]

Sure, but not by stealing some other people's Land. Israel was conceived by Lord Balfour who was paying back the Rothchild Banking Enterprise for the German Gold Reserves that were transferred to England during the first World War. The Palestinian People were not consulted. England felt that they won the World War and thus they had every right to Rule the World as they choose fit. They gave the Jews the Land of Palestine to pay off the German Jews for their Treason. The whole deal stinks and no amount of time will undo the basic injustice. Now, if England would like to clear off Scottland or Wales and present that the Jewish People for their Homeland, that would be fine. Or if the American Fundamentalists who believe that God will not give them their precious Rapture until there is a Jewish State, if they should clear out Idaho or Oregon and give that to the Jews, then that would be fine. But to send tanks and bulldozers into Palestine and chase the people into refugee camps and imprison their young men and assassinate generation after generation of Palestinian Leadership -- that is frankly a crime against humanity. The World did not tolerate Hitler's bid for Master Race Status and campaign of Ethnic Cleansing and Genocide, and so why does the World tolerate the same abuses when they are perpetrated by the Zionist Jews? Jeez, what the Jews should do is outright buy a chunk of property in Africa. Those nations are so poor and some of them are so large. They would gladly sell off a chunk considering how much money the Jews have to offer for it. Just think of how much Money the Jews spend bribing American Politicians each election year -- why, that much money could buy a piece of Africa, on the coast, double the size of present day Israel. But I suppose they don't want it if they have to come by it honestly. To them being the Chosen People of God means you should be able to rape, pillage and steal and fully expect to get away with it. Like the Germans thought it was okay to be the Master Race. You know, it only shows that the British and the Americans were really no different from the Nazis...in the end they all play the same Super Power Game.

[RyanParis]

If Israel is allowed to exist, then a nation for all-Whites, all-blacks, all-Asians, ect, should exist, too. Otherwise it's racist.

[Neruo]

Perhaps. But they totally fucked it up. So I voted no.

[mongreloctopus]

Let's give it to the Tibetans.

[Dangeruss]

Originally posted by Leo Volont Sure, but not by stealing some other people's Land. I think you hit the nail on the head right there. Of course they deserve a nation of their own. Yet, you can't justify taking away someone else's land simply because someone else wants it and they've got the big guns behind them.

[Burns]

I also vote no - the whole middle east shouldn't exist, either. They can't stop fighting amongst themselves - their holy wars have been going on for thousands of years. Give it up, people.

[Dickie]

I said no, because as it is at the moment, it is pretty much the cause of most of the conflict in the world today. TBH, seeing as neithter Greece nor Turkey seem to be able to agree on who should have Cyprus, why didn't they clear both of them off the island and make that Israel?! But, seeing as we can't go back and stop it, lets fix it. As for how, I'm not too sure, but thats what needs working out. Originally posted by Leo Volont Now, if England would like to clear off Scottland or Wales and present that the Jewish People for their Homeland, that would be fine. Erm...sorry to be a bit nit-picky but England, Scotland and Wales are countries in their own rights, but they are part of the United Kingdom (Which consists of England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland). Would have been better to phrase it "Now, if the UK would like to clear off Scotland or Wales and present that...blah blah blah..." Although, at the time, the area was a British Colony, and so this was probably a similar situation to what you suggest! But yeah, I'm going to shut up before I dig a very deep hole...

[nina]

Originally posted by burns91 the whole middle east shouldn't exist, either. They can't stop fighting amongst themselves - their holy wars have been going on for thousands of years. Give it up, people. Haha...wow. That has to be one of the most insensitive and moronic statements I've ever heard. Do you even have a clue as to why there is so much unrest in the Middle East? I suspect not... But yeah...we should just nuke the whole Middle East and get rid of the fuckers...yeah?

[bradybaker]

Originally posted by Aquanina But yeah...we should just nuke the whole Middle East and get rid of the fuckers...yeah? I don't know about nuking them....we still have to go in and get the oil afterwards right? Napalm might be a bit cleaner.

[Burns]

Originally posted by Aquanina Haha...wow. That has to be one of the most insensitive and moronic statements I've ever heard. Do you even have a clue as to why there is so much unrest in the Middle East? I suspect not... But yeah...we should just nuke the whole Middle East and get rid of the fuckers...yeah? So I suppose you think it's a good thing that most terrorists and suicide bombers come from the Middle East? They want to kill us all! There will never be peace there. I didn't post to start an argument, only to express my opinion (which I believe what the whole point of this topic). And as a DG, maybe you should not be so "insensitive."

[mongreloctopus]

The real problem here is not with israel or palestine, but with god. lets get rid of that asshole, and all the problems will be solved.

[bradybaker]

Originally posted by burns91 So I suppose you think it's a good thing that most terrorists and suicide bombers come from the Middle East? They want to kill us all! There will never be peace there. I didn't post to start an argument, only to express my opinion (which I believe what the whole point of this topic). And as a DG, maybe you should not be so "insensitive." How about Timothy McVeigh and the Unabomber? Where were they from? Oh right, the US. Sheesh, I almost forgot. Don't label an entire group of nations as terrorists. We're having problems with extremists and fundamentalits, not Middle Easterners and Islamics.

[Darkmatic]

I couldn't find the "Bomb the fuck out of them" option , so i just chose no . But seriously , they should cool it over there and just chill out . 8)

[Burns]

Originally posted by bradybaker How about Timothy McVeigh and the Unabomber? Where were they from? Oh right, the US. Sheesh, I almost forgot. Maybe you "almost forgot" to read my entire post where I said "most" terrorists and suicide bombers. Read the whole thing before making smart-ass comments, please.

[Howie]

Originally posted by bradybaker How about Timothy McVeigh and the Unabomber? Where were they from? Oh right, the US. Sheesh, I almost forgot. Don't label an entire group of nations as terrorists. We're having problems with extremists and fundamentalits, not Middle Easterners and Islamics. Those cases are much more rare and in those cases they are not a group. While maybe warped, they were intelligent and again usually work, if not on their own but a very limited base of people. They were not brainwashed by any religion.

[Leo Volont]

Originally posted by RyanParis If Israel is allowed to exist, then a nation for all-Whites, all-blacks, all-Asians, ect, should exist, too. Otherwise it's racist. Well, that IS what Democracy is all about, though many people don't seem to understand that. Woodrow Wilson, almost a hundred years ago came out with the much publicized notion that Democracy consists of and leads to Ethnic Self Determination. That should have horrified the World, but it didn't. It should have horrified Americans, as America is a very ethnically diverse community, but it didn't. And then after Adolf Hitler took Wilson's Doctrine under advisement and with so very few changes turned it into NAZIism, it should have horrified the World, but it didn't... everyone pretended that the NAZIs and now they pretend the ZIONists, and the Muslims now in Europe are somehow aberrations to at the processes of Democracy must inevitably lead to. Democratic Institutions are in their very essential Nature Ethnocentric and Racist, set to put Race against Race, Class against Class, Group against Group. Democracy is self-defined as a system that allows 51% to tyrannize over the other 49%, but often it is worse than that. In Parliamentary Systems often no single party can attain an electoral plurality and so Governments are formed of Coalitions. The way Coalitions often work out is that a sizeable Minority Party can hold out for disproportionate Power. It is how the NAZIs achieved control of German Politics, and how the Zionists have achieved control of Israeli Politics. The advantage of Democracy is supposed to be that it provides a means by which the People are represented in Government. But do the Math. The Losers are NOT represented, are they? 49% or even more of the people have their interests and concerns hijacked by either slim majorities, or minorities who were able to twist arms into power. We need to go back to having a King of the World that institutes a Bureaucratic Government open entirely in terms of Merit. No longer must we be enslaved by the forces of Bribery and Ethnic Bigotry, which is all that Democracy reduces down to.

[Leo Volont]

Originally posted by Dickie I said no, because as it is at the moment, it is pretty much the cause of most of the conflict in the world today. TBH, seeing as neithter Greece nor Turkey seem to be able to agree on who should have Cyprus, why didn't they clear both of them off the island and make that Israel?! But, seeing as we can't go back and stop it, lets fix it. As for how, I'm not too sure, but thats what needs working out. Erm...sorry to be a bit nit-picky but England, Scotland and Wales are countries in their own rights, but they are part of the United Kingdom (Which consists of England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland). Would have been better to phrase it "Now, if the UK would like to clear off Scotland or Wales and present that...blah blah blah..." * Although, at the time, the area was a British Colony, and so this was probably a similar situation to what you suggest! But yeah, I'm going to shut up before I dig a very deep hole... What we have in Cyprus is Political Instablity. You see, back before the settlements that transformed the World after the First World War, almost the entire Near East was within the jurisdictions of the Ottoman Empire. When England, France and the United States took it upon themselves to carve up this vast Ottoman Empire, unthinkingly, they created a situation in which nobody involved felt that the new borders established were actually legitimate. Why should they? It was not their decision, and in many respects it was not their War. England, France and America wanted to punish the Turks for having chosen the Losing Side and so broke a huge Political Jurisdiction into tiny and unworkable pieces. And the People involved should fall in line why? History shows that it usually takes about 120 Years for a disrupted Political Jurisdiction to stabilize and achieve what is perceived as popular Legitimacy. Any Stateman would think twice before disturbing that sense of Legitimacy. But Democracies do not elect Stateman, do they? We get the George W. Bushes. We get Actors. We get loud mouth professional wrestlers. We get people who never got higher than a C in social studies. So, yes, there is a struggle in Cyprus. There is a struggle in Cyprus because people almost a century ago could not leave well enough alone. And about Scottland and Wales being Sovereign Countries. Well, so what. The Ottoman Empire was sovereign. And the the Palestinian People as a nation were promised Sovereignty. If the English can so disregard the wishes and ambitions of the Palestinian People, then by what new Principle should they give a rat's ass what the Nations of Scottland or Wales think about any equal injustice done to them. You see, that is what is ultimately wrong with the International Support being given to Isreal, Britain and America as they conduct their War against Palestine and the rest of the Near East, that it sets up a precedent whereby it excuses any de facto Super Power that would desire to commit any stupid injustice simply because they have the Military Power to get away with it. The World fought the NAZIs, so why should we let Britain, America and Israel get away with the same crap?

[bradybaker]

Originally posted by burns91 Maybe you "almost forgot" to read my entire post where I said "most" terrorists and suicide bombers. Read the whole thing before making smart-ass comments, please. Regardless, your blanket statements about the state of the Middle East were wholly unjustified. That was my point. I suppose you think that Katrina was a good thing because it wiped out the ghettos of New Orleans and made way for the rich folk to buy up all the prime real estate?

[Leo Volont]

Originally posted by mongreloctopus Let's give it to the Tibetans. About Tibet. Many people complain that China has assumed jurisdiction. But we need to understand that China has long political memory. In the 12th Century the tribes that populated Tibet threw in with the Mongolians from the North in their invasion of China. At the time Delegates of Imperial China had warned the Tibetan Tribesman that there would be consequences for invading China. Well, they weren't lying, were they? Then we need to examine who can do the better job managing Tibet. Before the Chinese, Tibet was in the grips of a bunch of fraudulent Holy Men -- scotch drinking, ciggerette smoking "Holy Men". Even if one assumes they take their published Religion seriously, we can evaluate it against the Higher Religions of the World and see Tibetanism as just so much competitive Witchcraft... and a sexist witchcraft, because they allow women to have no part in it. Oh, except as sexual objects. We can look at Tibetan Tantric Doctrine and find that the Tibetan Religion has made a virtue out of the predatory rape of women by these so-called "religious" Monks. So let the Dalai Lama compose his pretty books... I suspect he largely plagiarizes... using all the cliches that are the common language of all those with an elementary education in Eastern Philosophy. But Tibet is in better hands with the Chinese.