Thread: Important For United States Citizens

Originally Posted by Universal

The problem is that terrorist government leaders are having better access to WMD's like nuclear weapons. That was not a problem 20 years ago. Our only problem with nukes then was that the Soviets had them. They were a government that wanted to live. The nut jobs we are dealing with now want to die and screw virgins. We have a whole new problem on our hands.
Tsen, if the cards are not effective, then we shouldn't bother with them. I agree with that much. I don't know how difficult it will be to engage in forgery and copying and so forth with them. If it is a piece of cake, then the whole thing is a waste. I don't think we can know exactly how advanced the system will be yet.

You know I disagree with your take on the Iraq war. It was not about "getting Bin Laden". It was about a lot of things. The only things Bin Laden had to do with it were that he was behind the attack that influenced the formation of the doctrine under which we overthrew the Hussein regime and his suicide terrorist organization, which had already attacked us several times, was having meetings with the Hussein regime, one more thing on the long list of reasons to see the Hussein regime as a danger after having a great deal of intelligence (a definite history of it plus six governments and the U.N. reporting it) suggesting that the Hussein regime had WMD's. That matter is serious enough to put world opinion of us on the backburner. The influencing of new terrorists is small in comparison to a government that supports suicide terrorism and appears to have the weapons to make terrorism count way bigger than anything a person with a usual belt bomb could ever do.
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But it's not as easy as all that though. Yeah, there are loads of nuclear weapons banging around, but they're pretty trackable, and not so easy to smuggle anywhere without being noticed. All these suitcase bombs or whatever, were barely possible by the likes of the Soviets, so there's no chance even a terrorist organisation could get hold of any, or even come close to making one, as far as I can see. If they did however, manage to a) set up/occupy a nuclear silo b) get hold of a nuclear weapon to launch from this silo c) get past the huge amounts of anti-ballistic defences inbetween pretty much anywhere in the world, and us, which pretty much guarantee anything less than 5 simultaneous nukes launched at the same target would get shot down before doing any damage

Actually, there are virtually no ICBM defenses anywhere in the world. The US is the only nation to have successfully developed and tested anti-ICBM (AICBM) equipment, and that was only at the end of last year. The device is still in development, too, and isn't deployed at the moment.
ICBMs are very susceptible to damage, and a few entirely unaimed rifle bullets could easily damage it to a non-working point. However, they travel at speeds of 25,000 mph+, so their vulnerability is irrelevant. We've only just developed missiles capable of targeting an object traveling that fast, and the only reason they can even hit the ICBM is because it plots a collision course from head-on rather than chasing it down.

But ICBMs aren't the problem--no nation will ever launch one in the foreseeable future. Iran certainly would like to launch one at Israel, but they still lack some the technology. They also fear retribution from other nations--despite their government's notably extremist stand, they still have enough logic in their heads to see that an attack on Israel would be suicide, and dead people don't reap the benefits of high status in government.
North Korea's even less likely. With China looking over its shoulder, it doesn't dare do anything--the nuclear test earlier was more a plea for attention than a threat. They know full well what would happen if they pushed China any further.

The real threat comes from hand-delivered nuclear devices. Likely in a vehicle, since terrorists are technologically lacking and wouldn't be able to obtain a small nuclear device (which, by the way, about the smallest a nuclear device ever gets is small enough to fit in a large shop-vac).

Preventing such an attack is in no way prevented by ID'ing citizens. In fact, there is relatively little we could do to stop such an attack, and bothering to try to stop one at all is rather ludicrous, since the chances of it ever happening are incredibly small and the required effort to fend them off would be much better spent elsewhere.
Terrorists could not obtain a large nuclear device. Due to the complex technology involved, they would be unable to obtain an H-Bomb of any sort, only a non-proton bomb. Terrorists could probably obtain a device no larger than 20 kilotons under that constraint, which is only slightly larger than the bombs used on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
Further, because they would be limited in their delivery methods, they would have to deliver it on ground, which severely reduces the potency of the weapon. In the cases of both bombs dropped on Japan, the detonation was actually extremely high above the earth to obtain a larger blast radius. But on earth, the ground absorbs much of the blast.

Meanwhile, a biological attack could easily cause far more casualties than a nuke could under those conditions, and would require far less set up and could be smuggled almost anywhere, INCLUDING airliners.

It's really a Red Queen situation--you can build better security, but there will always be a simple way around it, so it will wind up being an ever-escalating contest, resulting in only incredibly bloated budgets and ineffective but costly and laborer-intensive measures.
I see it as money and work best spent elsewhere.

Originally Posted by Tsen

(which, by the way, about the smallest a nuclear device ever gets is small enough to fit in a large shop-vac).
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Interesting. I did not know that.

The terrorists must be extremely ineffective not to have been able to do anything else over the last few years. I'm just not very terrorized, and a long way from wanting to give up any rights for an illusion of safety. Maybe somebody will get thru eventually, but I think the odds are with us. Even tho the performance of the military has been very disappointing and disillusioning to me (along with a lot of other things in the last few years) I think that if the US were ever actually invaded, as long as our weapons have not been taken from us, the attackers would not get very far; and, hopefully, if we are ever unfortunately involved a real war that has a just purpose, we would rally and fight for what is right. Maybe those days are over tho, and maybe there are no just wars anyway.

I think if the laws we have are enforced, and we are allowed to protect ourselves, we will probably be pretty safe from the fanatics, without becoming sheep and taking the first step to 1984. I'd rather make a law that everybody had to ride airplanes naked without any luggage than trust some ID telling us that everyone is OK and some bored minimum wage airline screeners worried about the latest lip gloss-bomb or lighter-bomb or shoe-bomb. You want to come into the US, you better be in good shape, because you got to take it all off. (Hey, I think I got something here...) We should wean ourselves off their oil, meanwhile destroy their culture with our decadence by giving them all free cable TV, including the movie channels.

EDIT: I guess that would have to be satellite TV

There are some smaller than that I suppose, such as artillery shells produced by the US, but they're so weak that a conventional explosive rigged as a dirty bomb would be more effective, easier to produce and cheaper to boot.
So in the realm of plausible possible nukes, shop-vac is the limit, and even then the yield is low, and thus casualties will be minimal unless strategically placed (ie at a sporting event or at the base of a large structure).

Originally Posted by Tsen

Actually, there are virtually no ICBM defenses anywhere in the world. The US is the only nation to have successfully developed and tested anti-ICBM (AICBM) equipment, and that was only at the end of last year. The device is still in development, too, and isn't deployed at the moment.
ICBMs are very susceptible to damage, and a few entirely unaimed rifle bullets could easily damage it to a non-working point. However, they travel at speeds of 25,000 mph+, so their vulnerability is irrelevant. We've only just developed missiles capable of targeting an object traveling that fast, and the only reason they can even hit the ICBM is because it plots a collision course from head-on rather than chasing it down.
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Well, that's not completely accurate; the latest AICMB systems have only just been tested to the best of their ability, but there have been various systems since the 60s, and I say 'huge amounts' in a relative context 5 sites is more than enough to stop a pretty large nuclear barrage from pretty much anyone!

That&#39;s the only thing I had to say though, the rest of your posts are very thorough and interesting ^^ <3

Originally Posted by Ne

And as far as the the dollar amount I had no idea of a stagering amount of that level. 500 Billion is a lot of money Which seems like it&#39;s just been wasted.
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U.S. National depth: about 8.6 trillion. Seriously.

But just with the Iraq war alone, Imagen what could have been done with all that money. Half of Africa could be turned into a better economy, what in turn would lead to less wars there.

EDIT: http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

"
The Outstanding Public Debt as of 07 Feb 2007 at 11:12:58 AM GMT is:
&#036; 8 , 6 9 8 , 6 3 0 , 0 5 2 , 9 4 7 . 1 3

The estimated population of the United States is 300,901,177
so each citizen&#39;s share of this debt is &#036;28,908.59.

The National Debt has continued to increase an average of
&#036;1.47 billion per day since September 29, 2006&#33;
"

america fucked themselves over so I laugh at them
hahahahaha

Originally Posted by delta

america fucked themselves over so I laugh at them
hahahahaha
[/b]

I kind of suspected you were a racist. But then I saw your sig. Now I stopped suspecting.

"until the white man respect us as part of the human race, they can all mutha fuckin die"
[/b]

That is the mentality the Americans had that got Your people fucked over in the first place Just replace &#39;respect us&#39; with &#39;become civilized&#39; (delta is an indian of some sort).

Originally Posted by Neruo

U.S. National depth: about 8.6 trillion. Seriously.

But just with the Iraq war alone, Imagen what could have been done with all that money. Half of Africa could be turned into a better economy, what in turn would lead to less wars there.

EDIT: http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

"
The Outstanding Public Debt as of 07 Feb 2007 at 11:12:58 AM GMT is:
&#036; 8 , 6 9 8 , 6 3 0 , 0 5 2 , 9 4 7 . 1 3

The estimated population of the United States is 300,901,177
so each citizen&#39;s share of this debt is &#036;28,908.59.

The National Debt has continued to increase an average of
&#036;1.47 billion per day since September 29, 2006&#33;
"
[/b]

Im curious about something. You&#39;re in the Netherlands, so why are these figures so important to you? Because to be honest I would never perform a search of this nature for your country, not being rude but I just wouldn&#39;t do it. So what&#39;s your motivation?

im not an INDIAN im an aboriginal, get your shit right, indians come from mutha fuckin india.
that is the first step into respect

Originally Posted by Moonbeam

Interesting. I did not know that.

The terrorists must be extremely ineffective not to have been able to do anything else over the last few years. [/b]

Our policy changes have a lot to do with that. Overthrowing two terrorist governments caught some people&#39;s attention too. Our "paper tiger" (- Bin Laden) image vanished because of that.

As for the nukes, we have been doing a great job of keeping them from entering the country, but what we are threatened with in that area is so gigantic that there is no room for even one screw up. Bio and chemical weapons are a big threat too. If ID cards can effectively help with that problem, I am for them as described so far. If they would be a joke, then they&#39;re not worth it.

Originally Posted by Moonbeam

im not an INDIAN im an aboriginal, get your shit right, indians come from mutha fuckin india.
that is the first step into respect
[/b]

I&#39;m part Choctaw, and I&#39;m not going to piss and moan about what certain white individuals did hundreds of years ago. They&#39;ve all been dead for a long time. And there is no such person as "the white man". Every person is an individual. Your type of thinking is called "racism". You obviously are not above it. If you want respect, you could start by learning to form sentences.

your lucky I can&#39;t express myself without swearing, I gotta cool it so they say, so im shutting up about this race stuff

Originally Posted by delta

don&#39;t blame me for being racist[/b]

Sloth: Do not use my thread for your post whoring efforts. I&#39;ve seen that same quote from you in 7 other threads and to be honest It&#39;s getting played.
__________________________________________________ ____________________________


Okay guys this is whats going on so far on the lines of opposition of Real ID from various state departments. It&#39;s go time

WASHINGTON, Feb. 7 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- Fifteen months before the REAL ID Act is scheduled to be fully implemented, a handful of state DMVs, together with fringe groups on the far left and far right, are mounting an all-out offensive to repeal the measure. About a dozen states have active legislation against Real ID, including Arizona, Georgia, Hawaii, Massachusetts, Missouri, New Hampshire, Oklahoma, Utah and Wyoming. Missouri state Rep. James Guest, a Republican, formed a coalition of lawmakers from 34 states to file bills that oppose or protest Real ID.


Additional Problems with Real ID.

• Some states will have to invest millions in new computer systems that can communicate with federal databases. That is something they probably will not accomplish by the deadline.
  
• It will be difficult to comply with the requirement that license applicants prove they are in the country legally. There are more than 100 different immigration statutes, Steinhardt said, which will pose problems for motor vehicle clerks unfamiliar with immigration law.
  
• It does not solve the problem of terrorism. Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh and some of the hijackers from the attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, had legitimate driver&#39;s licenses.
  
• Even the requirement that applicants&#39; full legal names appear on licenses will pose problems because some states limit the number of characters on the face of the card.

"This is almost a frontal assault on the freedoms of America when they require us to carry a national ID to monitor where we are," "That&#39;s going too far."[/b]

It&#39;s going to be a honey pot out there that&#39;s going to be irresistible to identity thieves, in the likes in which the victim is never going to be able to recover nor undo this.

If we cannot substantiate the identities of the people who are receiving or using government-issued IDs, then what is the point of having them? Nothing in the law requires Americans to surrender more private information to the government. REAL ID merely requires that people prove that they are who they say they are, and that they have a right to be here in the first place, which is precisely what the law intended. But should enough states revolt, Congress would be forced to revisit the issue before the law goes into effect in 2008. So continues the high-stakes game of state/federal brinksmanship.

Originally Posted by delta

im not an INDIAN im an aboriginal, get your shit right, indians come from mutha fuckin india.
that is the first step into respect
[/b]

Just because that silly white cracker, Columbus, couldn&#39;t get his honkey brain to get he wasn&#39;t in india, indians is now just another word for the original inhabitants of America. I don&#39;t think it is racist or anything.

Also, &#39;Mutha fucking&#39; or &#39;Mutha fucka&#39; isn&#39;t cool since 2001.

Originally Posted by delta

Im curious about something. You&#39;re in the Netherlands, so why are these figures so important to you? Because to be honest I would never perform a search of this nature for your country, not being rude but I just wouldn&#39;t do it. So what&#39;s your motivation?
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I actually ran across it. I think 75% of the sites I browse at are English, mostly American. I also have to boycot the sites that have American flags in the background, so that ends me up at sites that are somewhat self-criticisising of America.

But even more important. I am extremely opposed against a war that has killed thousands of innocent people. Even worse is that with that money the war is costing about 1000 more people then that died in 9/11 could have given a better life, instead of dieing in Africa or someplace. I think the war in Iraq is one of the most selfish, stupid, aggressive, human-rights violating, costly, biggest and undemocratic thing that has happened in the last few years. I am sorry I care, I should ignore anything that doesn&#39;t involve me directly, like who cares some people are dieing, I have an XboX, who cares?

Originally Posted by Ne

Im curious about something. You&#39;re in the Netherlands, so why are these figures so important to you? Because to be honest I would never perform a search of this nature for your country, not being rude but I just wouldn&#39;t do it. So what&#39;s your motivation?
[/b]

Pretty much anything America does affects the rest of the word&#33;

Ne-yo,
I posted every one of those posts in one hour, and I&#39;m still hearing about it. I believe people should know what this little kid is, and what he stands for. I do not understand why you would get bent out of shape because of one post from me. People have done worse to my posts, and I have said nothing to them. I would have hoped people would support me in my attempts to let the forum know that this kid is a racist. This has not been what I have seen, however. It is more important that people point out that I posted this in multiple places than it is to understand why I did what I did.
Thanks for your help, friend.

I wasn&#39;t coming down on you sloth. I think you are a really cool guy. You do add some flavor and spontaneity to the forums and believe me we need some of that around here. I think we all pretty much know how racist this guy is. I don&#39;t mind your efforts to expose him at all, because he&#39;s full of Sh** but it will be cool if you give your opinion in regards to this issue on this thread as well. You&#39;re cool in my book, and I really can&#39;t say anything because I&#39;ve jacked a few threads here and there myself. My bad if I came off a little harsh.

Thanks, Ne-yo. For real.
I was really starting to worry that I had pissed you off.

Crap. Class is doing a group project.
*gets pulled away by instructor*

Noo&#33; Laptop&#33; Come back&#33;&#33;

Good News.

On January 11, 2008, it was announced the deadline has been extended, until 2011, in hopes of gaining more support from states. It looks like we will not see this Real ID take affect anytime soon and hopefully never.

wow, this is pretty sad. They already use our driver's license for all validation, do we really need a second one? Anyways, good news it has been pushed back, maybe it will keep getting pushed back and eventually die. Like what Blizzard did with Starcraft Ghost