Thread: U.s Is Going To Fall

Originally Posted by Volcon

Hopefully hillary clinton does not become president, as soon as she haves a period she will launch nukes.
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A female U.S. president?! Not in this universe.

My wife and I laugh about this frequently.
Even Pakistan has had a female premier, for goodness sake!

What is so terrifying about a woman in the White House?

Nothing at all.

I truly hope that this election brings in the black president or the female one. Either way, both will definitely, in my thoughts, have a strong leadership backbone.

(Plus, Hilary can continue Bill's legacy for him! )

Originally Posted by OneRyt

(Plus, Hilary can continue Bill's legacy for him! )
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And whatever that legacy may be, it's gonna better than the current situation.

Huh? There is no terrorist threat? Where do you get that? What is your theory on what Al Qaeda, Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and Hezbollah are about? Are they ice cream companies disguising themselves as terrorists who hold suicide bombings against us "infidels" as the highest honor achievable by humans?[/b]

Heh, all I was saying is that terrorism is not beatable. "Phantom terrorism" was a reference to the ability to make a "war on terror" and thereby have the ability to label anyone a terrorist you then want to continue the war. Terrorism is a tactic. You cannot fight a war against it. Also, I was speaking of the tendency for our leaders to use the word "terrorism" in everything they speak of now, and it seems in so doing, they get whatever they want.

I'm not going into detail about what I think. (Cause that would be just too dang long. ) All I have to say is this:

The day they bring back The Draft, will be the day America falls...

Originally Posted by OneRyt

I truly hope that this election brings in the black president or the female one. Either way, both will definitely, in my thoughts, have a strong leadership backbone.
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*laughter*

Nothing good can come from this thread. To even act like measly humans like ourselves can predict the downfall of America is borderline retarded. The truth is, we have no more probability of falling than anyone else in the world. BTW, we are better off than the majority of Europe anyway.

Rome and America are incomparable. Rome fell because its borders were breached several times over the course of a couple hundred years (spread their empire too thin). In this technological age, the sword and shield do not determine the outcome of a country\'s prosperity.

America has a bad rep right now, even within its borders. Probably because 99.99% of the world has never experienced terrorism. Many of you may see the US killing Afghan and Iraqi civilians, which is far worse evil than suicide bombers. The difference is that terrorists have a PURPOSE, and they are always have the element of suprise. Iraq is done and over with. In 10 years it will just be a memory. Terrorism is not a dictator, but an idea. It is passed from father to son. A perpetuating problem. A far, FAR worse evil than the removal of Saddam and all that died in the process.

Terrorism is a wild dog the world needs to tame. 20 years of scaring the pants of terrorist leaders will be a positive thing. Yet we will NEVER see its effects. Its hard to be thankful for the survival of people that would have died in the future, but lived instead.

Hell, our interaction in the mid-east may have already stoped another major terrorist strike. Or perhaps we have planted the seeds of our own destruction.

Nothing good can come from this thread. To even act like measly humans like ourselves can predict the downfall of America is borderline retarded. The truth is, we have no more probability of falling than anyone else in the world. BTW, we are better off than the majority of Europe anyway.

Rome and America are incomparable. Rome fell because its borders were breached several times over the course of a couple hundred years (spread their empire too thin). In this technological age, the sword and shield do not determine the outcome of a country\'s prosperity.

America has a bad rep right now, even within its borders. Probably because 99.99% of the world has never experienced terrorism. Many of you may see the US killing Afghan and Iraqi civilians, which is far worse evil than suicide bombers. The difference is that terrorists have a PURPOSE, and they are always have the element of suprise. Iraq is done and over with. In 10 years it will just be a memory. Terrorism is not a dictator, but an idea. It is passed from father to son. A perpetuating problem. A far, FAR worse evil than the removal of Saddam and all that died in the process.

Terrorism is a wild dog the world needs to tame. 20 years of scaring the pants of terrorist leaders will be a positive thing. Yet we will NEVER see its effects. Its hard to be thankful for the survival of people that would have died in the future, but lived instead.

Hell, our interaction in the mid-east may have already stoped another major terrorist strike. Or perhaps we have planted the seeds of our own destruction.

lol. If you should know Anything HAS, it is that killing people with an idea just strengthens the idea in others. Killing isn't the way to tackle ideas, it needs gradual change, more equality between people and such.

Also, I really doubt You have experienced terrorism HAS. And even if you did, don't you think more people in Iraq have lost their loved ones by bombs? To a peasant that doesn't know shit, what is the difference from your terrorism of bombs and the Muslim terrorism of bombs? Nothing.

absolutely, neuro. I have not directly felt the effects of terrorism. I have not experienced 1% of the suffering that thousands go through every day. I dont think i need a Dutchman to tell me that.

Neuro, you have this fallacy that the world, outside America and terrorist states, is a peacefull place. Most people are not like you. Their goal in life is not peace. You have a higher purpose because survival isnt even a challange for you. Most of the world fights for survival every day (figurative fighting).

Violence, for much of earth, is too good of a resource to just give up. And when this ugly snake shows its head, Team America: World Police will be there to cut its head off. Is that they way things should be? Hell no!!! It kills troops and civilians, while making our country look bad. I think you need to admitt that somebody has be an active force in global policing, because God know most of Europe isnt going to do squat.

You only see the negatives, man. Look under America\'s ugly outside and see what good it has brought the world, including Holland.

Why does the world need governing? Is America perfect or something that they can show people how it is done? The difference between europe and america isn't that europe doesn't care, it is that europe takes a different appoach to solving the world's problems.

America chooses to invade countries and bomb the shit out of them, causing everyone to hate America. Europe choses a more diplomatic approach, however I would like to see them do even more diplomatically and in spreading wealth.

Seriously, terrorist aren't 'Just' terrorist. Even better: There are no 'terrorist'. There are just people. I could be a terrorist, You could be a terrorist. If you are poor and feel suppressed, like people in palatine, you blow yourself up for a cause. Their cause isn't so different from your cause. They want to make the world a better place, you want to make the world a better place. They do it by getting rid of the 'bad-guys', you do it by getting rid of the 'bad-guys'. They use bombs, you use bombs.

Violence isn't the answer to violence. However America thinks it so.

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Also, I love to see you attack Europe. New York was founded by the Dutch blablabla. But seriously, Europe is doing just fine. Actually it is doing better then America, I think most of the world would say.

Originally Posted by Neruo

Why does the world need governing? Is America perfect or something that they can show people how it is done? The difference between europe and america isn't that europe doesn't care, it is that europe takes a different appoach to solving the world's problems.

America chooses to invade countries and bomb the shit out of them, causing everyone to hate America. Europe choses a more diplomatic approach, however I would like to see them do even more diplomatically and in spreading wealth.

Seriously, terrorist aren't 'Just' terrorist. Even better: There are no 'terrorist'. There are just people. I could be a terrorist, You could be a terrorist. If you are poor and feel suppressed, like people in palatine, you blow yourself up for a cause. Their cause isn't so different from your cause. They want to make the world a better place, you want to make the world a better place. They do it by getting rid of the 'bad-guys', you do it by getting rid of the 'bad-guys'. They use bombs, you use bombs.

Violence isn't the answer to violence. However America thinks it so. Thats why some people here in America protest against violence. Oh wait it doesent matter but no they are violent they live in America. Thos violent Americans! They know America firsthand but they just hate violence. Then again it doesent matter they are Americans, they are violent eaither way.

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Also, I love to see you attack Europe. New York was founded by the Dutch blablabla. But seriously, Europe is doing just fine. Actually it is doing better then America, I think most of the world would say.
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Yeah that's why there was war before America existed. Because nobody liked violence. So people wanted violence so badly they created America.

Originally Posted by HereWeGo

Yeah that's why there was war before America existed. Because nobody liked violence. So people wanted violence so badly they created America.
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Oh my god really?!

But seriously, what the fuck are you talking about? I didn't say america causes violence, or invented it. Bad situations, poverty, unfair situations and indoctrination with a certain system (religion, fascism) cause violence.

America chooses violence as a means against 'terrorism' (and previously 'Communism&#39 and such. There are other means, but America some how things you can only be free if you use bombs to force other people to get free too. And gee, did it work? How is Vietnam doing?

Violence isn't the answer, America thinks it is. How the hell did you get the idea America is the cause of violence? America only is the cause of contra-violence, because violence there will always be if there is injustice and poverty and hate.

The main difference is that Europe is passive. Pretty dang close to cowardous. Remember what happened with that guy named Hitler? Started a little quarrel they decided to call WORLD WAR 2. 50,000,000 lives could have been saved if European nations had enforced the rules it gave Germany. You gave him too many chances, and it backfired. Because America was still objective at the time, we learned not to give crazy people 3rd and 4th chances. But i guess diplomacy is more important than 50 million.

Were you stoned all of 2003? Months of diplomacy. MONTHS. If we, as well as Europe, had intelligence that he was developing nukes (which he was hiding), then why shouldnt we use force? THE WORLD decided that Saddam was not allowed to have nuclear bombs. You see, back then, nobody knew if he had them or not. We just knew he was making them. Your countries had our back pretty much the entire diplomacy period. Nobody knew!!! Its easy for you to look back now and say \"i told you so\". Tensions were high at the time, and the world was about 90% sure what Saddam was doing. To not attack would have been, well, what Europe did in the 1930s. WE HAD TO BE SURE.

The problem with Europe is that it focuses TOO much on diplomacy. Really, its borderline inaction. Saddam was taken over because he was continuing a nuclear development program that the ENTIRE UN told him he could not do. It is not about nukes being used by terrorists.

Atleast my government stays true to its word. We followed through with our resolution toward Iraq, and didnt back out like Europe (excluding England) did. Id rather be called a war mongorer than a coward.

I just waited for you to use the word 'Cowardly'. I mean it if it manly/courageous to plunge into a war you can't win, be my guest.

Also, since the very reason you invaded Iraq was that "There certainly are WMDs", and there are NONE, didn't you made a diplomatic error by barging in?

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Also, I would like to thank America for totally stopping Hitler, Didn't they had some nice trade with Germany before the war?

hold on now neuro, dont get your panties in a bunch. Just because your country wussed out doesnt mean we are corageous. We just did what we said we were going to do.

About Hitler, Europe still should have stopped him pre-mobilization. But i guess it was just too much for your ancestors to handle at the time.

WOW......the war is over man, America won. Just because people are still dying doesnt mean the war is lost. Germany kicked the crap out of France in WW2 like it was nothing. There was still a huge French Resistance (much larger than the one in Iraq). Now tell me, did France fall to Germany, or not. O YEA!!!!!! We, the English, and the Canadians freed them....

Cowardous may be a strong word to use. Tell me, neuro, what word would you use to describe the last 50 years of European inaction?

Originally Posted by Hard

hold on now neuro, dont get your panties in a bunch. Just because your country wussed out doesnt mean we are corageous. We just did what we said we were going to do.[/b]

'Wussed out'. lol. Do all Americans feel like they have to compensate for something, or just you?

About Hitler, Europe still should have stopped him pre-mobilization. But i guess it was just too much for your ancestors to handle at the time. [/b]

Yeah, my ancestors sucked. Oh wait, didn't a few hundred years back some retards that didn't like it in the Netherlands go to some new world... 'America' or something?

Also, America sold weapons to Hitler (to my knowledge). Also, America didn't give a shit about the holocaust till some japs attacked them. Even then, wasn't it Germany that declared war to America? (After America bombed japan? (not the nuke-bomb))

I guess America was a wussy.

WOW......the war is over man, America won. Just because people are still dying doesnt mean the war is lost. Germany kicked the crap out of France in WW2 like it was nothing. There was still a huge French Resistance (much larger than the one in Iraq). Now tell me, did France fall to Germany, or not. O YEA!!!!!! We, the English, and the Canadians freed them....[/b]

Mission accomplished! Tell me, what is won? What is accomplished? Order? No? Democracy? No. Peace? No. --Civil war? Yes. More terrorist? Yes. Anarchy? Yes. Hate against America? Yes.

Also, a poll under irakis will tell you they probably did not found the american actions to be very 'free-ing'. More like 'fucking hell on earth-creating'.

And was there a civil war in France, during the second world war? Was there..mhhhhh, lets think.... no? Were there mutilated and tortured bodies found on the streets every morning? Hmmm.... no? Maybe because the Germans actually DID got some order in the country, some good police force. In Iraq you are dealing with AL LOT more then just some resistance. You are dealing with civil war, among other.

Cowardous may be a strong word to use. Tell me, neuro, what word would you use to describe the last 50 years of European inaction?
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In-action against what? Some bad people? Well like I said, I am glad America was COURAGEOUS and SMART enough to bomb the shit out of Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq and like 20 other countries. Not like you did more bad then good with your 'action'.

What has your 'actions' accomplished? Seriously, besides death?

I am not conpensating for anything. Your country is historically too lazy to fight. These are facts. Are you denying that?

Yea, your ancestors sucked. No, they did not discover America. Asians did that.

Weapons were sold to Hitler before he got in the spotlite. Once we figured out what he was doing, it stopped. Hell, your country probably sold him some stuff too.

AMERICANS WERE THE FIRST TO DISCOVER THE HOLOCAUST!!!!!! Nobody knew about it until we found the camps!! We may have known he was moving the people around, but nobody knew it was about mass excecution. Dude, take a history lesson!!! I cant believe you would just blatently make that up and try to pass it off as a fact.

America was created BECAUSE EUROPE SUCKS. We were meant to be a nation free from European Affairs. Your ancestors mistakes created my country. We didnt get involved early in WW2 becuase frankly, we didnt want your problems to become our problems. But your silly countries got taken over anyway (except the brits, go brits!!&#33, and we lost 500,000 taking them back (im sure you dont care about all the Dutch civilian deaths caused by Americans during your liberation). Final point, Europe sucks, thats why America is here. But the Americans werent necessary, right? Russia would have came and and freed all of you!! Those Russians were so kind and caring back them. Not like Stalin was worse than Hitler or anything...

A war is won by taking over the country. Yes, MISSION ACCOMPLISHED. We are now in the reformation era. We are controlling Iraq much better than the TV will tell you. Once again, i have spoken to eyewitnesses of daily life in Iraq. Its actually pretty uneventfull.

America stands up for personal freedom. POLITICIANS make the wars about greed, revenge, and influence. Vietnam was an attempt to buckle down on what Americans thought was the greatest evil (communism), whereas our presidents stayed in it becuase of the arms race. You need to start assessing war at more than just its face value.

Our actions will make Iran think twice about dealing out nukes. It shows that lying to the UN will get a big army on your ass. This is the technology age, man. Dumber people have more destructive power than ever. Stopping these people prior to an event is reason enough to topple Saddam. You are afraid to loose live to save lives. When enough time passes you will understand how deep this conflict is. Once again, war is more than the people that die. It is the messages and functional countries that will be our spoils of war.

What has been the point of your country, besides being an easy target?

Originally Posted by Hard

I am not conpensating for anything. Your country is historically too lazy to fight. These are facts. Are you denying that?[/b]

Or perhaps they're too intelligent to involve themselves in pointless brawls.

Originally Posted by Hard

Yea, your ancestors sucked. No, they did not discover America. Asians did that.[/b]

Did you even read his post? He didn't say his ancestors DISCOVERED America, he said they immigrated there. And no, the Asians did not "discover" America to begin with, it was the Scandinavians back in ~1000 AD.
Although, that whole argument is a moot point anyway, since there were natives on America even back then, so they must have "discovered" America before, when they first arrived.

Originally Posted by Hard

Weapons were sold to Hitler before he got in the spotlite. Once we figured out what he was doing, it stopped. Hell, your country probably sold him some stuff too.[/b]

Actually, the US stopped selling him weapons, NOT because we found out what he was doing, but because the Brits were our allies and they wouldn't be too keen on us supplying their enemy, would they? Actually, the US either didn't know or didn't care about the holocaust until AFTER WWII.

Originally Posted by Hard

AMERICANS WERE THE FIRST TO DISCOVER THE HOLOCAUST!!!!!! Nobody knew about it until we found the camps!! We may have known he was moving the people around, but nobody knew it was about mass excecution. Dude, take a history lesson!!! I cant believe you would just blatently make that up and try to pass it off as a fact.[/b]

Actually, it was the Poles who first discovered it, and the Brits who first heard of the mass executions.

Originally Posted by Hard

America was created BECAUSE EUROPE SUCKS.[/b]

That's got to be the most ignorant statement I've ever heard.

Originally Posted by Hard

A war is won by taking over the country. Yes, MISSION ACCOMPLISHED. We are now in the reformation era. We are controlling Iraq much better than the TV will tell you. Once again, i have spoken to eyewitnesses of daily life in Iraq. Its actually pretty uneventfull.[/b]

Oh, bullshit. Don't even get me started on this--the way to undermine a large guerilla network is NOT with armed patrols in the streets. Take a history lesson, that never works.

Originally Posted by Hard

America stands up for personal freedom. POLITICIANS make the wars about greed, revenge, and influence. Vietnam was an attempt to buckle down on what Americans thought was the greatest evil (communism)[/b]

Which, ironically, is the exact opposite of what was intended by the Founding Fathers...

Originally Posted by Hard

Dumber people have more destructive power than ever.[/b]

Originally Posted by Hard

What has been the point of your country, besides being an easy target?
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I take back what I said earlier. THIS is the most ignorant statement I've ever heard.

Originally Posted by Hard

Yea, your ancestors sucked. No, they did not discover America. Asians did that.

Weapons were sold to Hitler before he got in the spotlite. Once we figured out what he was doing, it stopped. Hell, your country probably sold him some stuff too.[/b]

Probably not, but it might.

AMERICANS WERE THE FIRST TO DISCOVER THE HOLOCAUST!!!!!! Nobody knew about it until we found the camps!! We may have known he was moving the people around, but nobody knew it was about mass excecution. Dude, take a history lesson!!! I cant believe you would just blatently make that up and try to pass it off as a fact. [/b]

Did I? It would take a retard not to see that Hitler was extremely bad, actual camps or not. Also, ofcourse it were the Americans that discovered them, not the Russians

America was created BECAUSE EUROPE SUCKS. We were meant to be a nation free from European Affairs. Your ancestors mistakes created my country. We didnt get involved early in WW2 becuase frankly, we didnt want your problems to become our problems. But your silly countries got taken over anyway (except the brits, go brits!!&#33, and we lost 500,000 taking them back (im sure you dont care about all the Dutch civilian deaths caused by Americans during your liberation). Final point, Europe sucks, thats why America is here. But the Americans werent necessary, right? Russia would have came and and freed all of you!! Those Russians were so kind and caring back them. Not like Stalin was worse than Hitler or anything...[/b]

Weren't most of the people that moved to America a bunch of pathetic protestants? That, and a shit load of poor people later on? Yes, I do kind of think that. Took some time too before you got that country together.

'We didn't want your (lol@europe-hate) problems to become our problems." So America was cowardly? Anyhow, I also care about the dutch civilians, would there be that much. For some reason, we, like France, didn't have a civil war.

Dude, play red alert: The allies would have beaten back those pesky Russians. But seriously, russia would have gotten rid of Hitler, and I don't think they would hold Europe for that long.

But you fail to see it isn't America's involvement in the second world war, it is the reason. If they weren't attacked, they wouldn't have helped until after england would have fallen. However now you are calling Europe cowardly and things like that.

A war is won by taking over the country. Yes, MISSION ACCOMPLISHED. We are now in the reformation era. We are controlling Iraq much better than the TV will tell you. Once again, i have spoken to eyewitnesses of daily life in Iraq. Its actually pretty uneventfull.[/b]

It just happens to be that there isn't the slightest decrease in violence. Do you think it will? You have 'won' this war like 2 years ago...

America stands up for personal freedom. POLITICIANS make the wars about greed, revenge, and influence. Vietnam was an attempt to buckle down on what Americans thought was the greatest evil (communism), whereas our presidents stayed in it becuase of the arms race. You need to start assessing war at more than just its face value.[/b]

And 'terrorism' and 'saddam's WMDs' aren't the greatest evil now? There isn't that much difference between vietnam and Iraq. It are two wars you can not win, and two wars with no real or at least reachable goal. If all the 'terrorist' are gone, Then you won that war of you. That, or if you find WMDs. You will not.

Our actions will make Iran think twice about dealing out nukes. It shows that lying to the UN will get a big army on your ass. This is the technology age, man. Dumber people have more destructive power than ever. Stopping these people prior to an event is reason enough to topple Saddam. You are afraid to loose live to save lives. When enough time passes you will understand how deep this conflict is. Once again, war is more than the people that die. It is the messages and functional countries that will be our spoils of war. [/b]

Yeah, Saddam had big big plans attacking America. Seriously: answer me this: Do you actually think Saddam was going to attack America, or any other country? Since all the al-quida ties were made up by your government, as were the all the 'we are certain Saddam had WMDs and is intending to use them' speeches by your government. Don't you see you have been lied to? It sounds all 'oohhhh-conzpiracy', but isn't it true? You fail to see that simple fact: Your government lied to you, it doesn't really get more factual.

I am not conpensating for anything. Your country is historically too lazy to fight. These are facts. Are you denying that?

What has been the point of your country, besides being an easy target?
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Duuude, you have to stop this whole masculine 'if you don't fight you are a pussy' nonsense. Is it your age? Why do you glory fighting so much? Especially if it achieves shit, like your wars have. My country is an easy target to all the terrorist that even know where the fuck it is: none. Meanwhile, while you go and fight a war that will breed more terrorist that CAN point out America on the map, I am going to enjoy my freedoms by smoking some weed. Is your country that free? Why not?

Have a nice day.

Ah, and I have the feeling you sometimes ignore certain parts of my post, but that might be me.

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edit: Tsen managed to kick more ass in far less text then me, well done Tsen

Originally Posted by Howetzer

I think your right.
We have talked about this a hundred different ways. I don't think any current government is in place to with stand the test of time. I personally think our form had the best chance had it gone the path our founding fathers had wished.
We had and still have some tools to keep the Gov. in check. We are loosing those powers ever so slightly.
The people have a voice. They just don't use it. And sadly when they do it is often an informative one.

But in the mean time --- Let Freedom Ring :!:
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I agree with this. It won't be anytime soon, but the feeling I get is we are slowly losing our powers in the name of "safety", and "security". With the greater sophistication of government technology, they can spy on you in more different ways. I am not a conspiracy theorist by any means, but the government is friends with the news agencys etc. and they can pull strings there if it will mean more profits for the agency, so free speach isn't complete (though it never really was). I think that like every world government before, and every after America will eventualy fall, or at lease cease to be a democracy. I am not to worried about losing it in my lifetime, but in my kid's or grandkid's, you never know. It may be in 100-200 years, but just like any world power, america will eventually die. Still though, america's freedom is much better than much of the world's, and even as we lose some rights, I have it better than most of the world. I don't like much of what the government does, but there I still love america, and though just like any other country, America will fall, I am with America to the end of its life as a democracy (at which point I'm getting the hell out of here).

You are a hypocrite, Tsen. You pretend to care about correcting ignorance, yet you let neuros or any other like minded persons ignorant statements go uncorrected. You care about your agenda, not the truth.

those statements are not ignorant at all. They are just what you dont want to hear.

neuro is already in the brawl.

neuro was trying to convey that his ancestors were essential to the foundation of America. THAT was an ignorant statement.

Tsen, you just lied too. Americans liberated the camps. We were not aware of the infinitely large campaign Hitler had, although we had some stories. We were the primary source of aid relief to the survivors. You should really find this stuff out before you jump on the neuro band-waggon. You were wrong on all 3 counts. Nobody knew the depth of destruction Hitler did until we got into deep German territory.

Tsen, if you are from America then nobody got you straight. The founders of America wanted to reform the shitty politics that are inherent to Europe. I will not waste time finding info. on such a commonly known fact.

Yea man, politicians suck. America isnt what it was meant to be. Thats probably the common citizens fault aswell.

Bush is a dumbass. Is this new? But he wasnt the only one who thought Iraq was developing nukes.....

Neuro said all my country does is cause death. Is THAT not more ignorant than my statement? Holland got WRECKED. In like 2 weeks. Were they not an easy target? Atleast my statement was true. America: largest relief-giving country in the history of our planet. THAT is a fact.

Why dont you get on neuros back? His \"facts\" are always distorted, and some of them sound like they were made up on the spot. He has stereotyped my entire culture as a buch of war mongering, blood thirsty extremists. All i said was his country gets defeated alot and WOOOW, i must have stepped over the line!!!

Im tired with this \"either you are pro-killing babies or you are pro-terrorist\". Dont be so quick to throw me into one of those categories.

Originally Posted by Hard

You are a hypocrite, Tsen. You pretend to care about correcting ignorance, yet you let neuros or any other like minded persons ignorant statements go uncorrected. You care about your agenda, not the truth.[/b]

lol. Do you blame him for criticized the bullshit you said? If I said: 'America SUCKS because Europe was to cool for the losers that fleed to America', or something totally irrlavant to any actual discussion, I probably would get criticized to.

And if anything, My impression is that Tsen doesn't have an agenda, he was just replying to some extremely lame remarks. I mean you have to say the 'dumber people have more power' reply with a picture from bush was nicely found, and put.

those statements are not ignorant at all. They are just what you dont want to hear.[/b]

How is is not ignorant to say America was created because Europe sucked? During the 17th-19th century, Europe was the most wealthy and civilized region on earth. I wouldn't know what sucked about it. What did? They had enough pointless wars if that is what you wanted.

neuro was trying to convey that his ancestors were essential to the foundation of America. THAT was an ignorant statement.[/b]

Who are your ancestors then, HAS? I think it are FUCKING EUROPEANS, lol. Good thing Europe sucked back then, so you suck too.

Tsen, you just lied too. Americans liberated the camps. We were not aware of the infinitely large campaign Hitler had, although we had some stories. We were the primary source of aid relief to the survivors. You should really find this stuff out before you jump on the neuro band-waggon. You were wrong on all 3 counts. Nobody knew the depth of destruction Hitler did until we got into deep German territory. [/b]

Tsen never took actual side with me, he just disagreed with You. Also, it seems a lot more likely that the people that lived around the camps like auswich and such to first discover the horrors. Or would you like to post some actual proof that America was the first the ring the bell?

Tsen, if you are from America then nobody got you straight. The founders of America wanted to reform the shitty politics that are inherent to Europe. I will not waste time finding info. on such a commonly known fact.[/b]

The founding fathers also wanted a country that stayed islolated somewhat, and not barge in to other countries to 'bring the freedom'. What somehow, always went accompanied with bombs and/or napalm.

Yea man, politicians suck. America isnt what it was meant to be. Thats probably the common citizens fault aswell.[/b]

I agree.

Bush is a dumbass. Is this new? But he wasnt the only one who thought Iraq was developing nukes.....[/b]

No, it was also Cheney, and Rice, and actually just the bush administation, that actually said things like 'Just tie Iraq to al-quida'.

Neuro said all my country does is cause death. Is THAT not more ignorant than my statement? Holland got WRECKED. In like 2 weeks. Were they not an easy target? Atleast my statement was true. America: largest relief-giving country in the history of our planet. THAT is a fact. [/b]

To who are we an easy target NOW? You wasn't talking about the Second world war when you said that, don't change to an extremely different time. Actually, the Netherlands tried to be neutral, like in the first world war. They expected a second one to be just as silly. Also, anno 2007: The last 4 decades, how many people has America, freed in comparison to killed? Do answer this.

America, that biggest relief giver? Sure. Do I also need to dig up that topic, where universal said you guys gave the most aid to other countries? Oh sure you do, in dollars, but per person you score very, very low. I didn't hear much from that topic after I posted the proof of that statement too. I was almost thinking I was talking in spiritually/religion, where people that see an argument that totally destroys their prior words just ignore the entire topic.

Why dont you get on neuros back? His \"facts\" are always distorted, and some of them sound like they were made up on the spot. He has stereotyped my entire culture as a buch of war mongering, blood thirsty extremists. All i said was his country gets defeated alot and WOOOW, i must have stepped over the line!!!
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Tsen is welcome to get on my back. However, I think you are the greater of two evils.

And like I said, what is it with the 'rambo only-thing-that-is-good-is-absolute-victory' thing? Seriously, the Netherlands got run over by a huge army when we thought we would get ignored like in the first world war, besides that no forgeing force has ever attacked us expect for some poor nuts holding a few people hostage in a train. Boo-Hoo. Not like we got 9-11ed, or even better, got patriot-act-ed. America is getting run over by it's own government more then the Netherlands ever did.

Also, I really don't give a shit or we are run over by the Germans or not. As long as we don't side with them, like we didn't. Boo-Hoo, The Netherlands are a bunch of pussies. Sure. So is the kid that is 3 feet tall when he gets raped by a huge 200 LB man with a gun. That little kid is such a wuss he didn't charged the guy with the gun trying to kill him with a paper-towel.

Im tired with this \"either you are pro-killing babies or you are pro-terrorist\". Dont be so quick to throw me into one of those categories.
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You are pro-killing terrorist, are you not? Killing terrorist, if you can find them between layers of civilians.

im sorry man, ive been talking too much shit. But.....

you talk about how your country\'s past isnt important NOW, but you still diss WW2 America!! Pretty much everything about it.

1. We supplied Hitler with weapons
2. We were sissies for not jumping on Europes problem from day 1
3. We didnt care about the Holocaust.....did Holland?
4. We werent necessary. Stalin would have freed Europe.

I dont think you are making stuff up. I think you have been lied to all your life. Just as I have. American \"propaganda\" is more about us than it is about other countries. The \"American Dream\" has turned our life into a rat-race. I would have it no other way, but it creates a whole lot of competition.

But when you say that the United States wasnt necessary to free Europe, I cant believe it. This is not about me making my country look like the Elite. This is fact based.

You are a hypocrite, Tsen. You pretend to care about correcting ignorance, yet you let neuros or any other like minded persons ignorant statements go uncorrected. You care about your agenda, not the truth.

No, I just think you're far more wrong then Neruo. He botched several points, but you botched EVERY point.

those statements are not ignorant at all. They are just what you dont want to hear.

Uh, NO.
Saying that "EUROPE SUCKS" is pretty damn ignorant. Europe contains four MAJOR world powers. Five if you include Russia. And you just collectively lumped them and said they all "suck". I've got news for you, they're a hell of a lot ahead of US in a LOT of areas. Especially education, coincidentally.

neuro was trying to convey that his ancestors were essential to the foundation of America. THAT was an ignorant statement.

Er, I don't know where you learned your history, but the early US population tied back almost exclusively to European immigrants--mostly of Dutch, Irish and German descent.

Tsen, you just lied too. Americans liberated the camps.

Tell me where I said we didn't liberate the camps.
I only said we didn't care much about them until AFTER the war ended. Yeah, we "liberated" them, with help of European allies.
Further, I stated that we were not the ones to discover the camps--that was the Poles, followed by the Brit's confirmation of the mass killings, back in '41, BEFORE WE'D EVEN ENTERED THE WAR.

We were not aware of the infinitely large campaign Hitler had, although we had some stories.

Again, which is a moot point because several other nations picked up on it and had concrete evidence long before we did.

We were the primary source of aid relief to the survivors.

Again, moot point. This was moreso because we were the only economy NOT totally destroyed by the war. It's also rather ignorant to pretend it was a "heroic" action. Yeah, it was aid, and yes, it was needed sorely, but we made a tidy bit of profit off of that in the long run, so it wasn't as selfless as you're making it out to be.

Tsen, if you are from America then nobody got you straight. The founders of America wanted to reform the shitty politics that are inherent to Europe. I will not waste time finding info. on such a commonly known fact.

Dude, you totally missed my point.
Yes, they wanted to change the political system present in Europe and form a more ideal society. Specifically, they wanted religion and government kept separate, they wanted the people to have a say in government, and they wanted to reclaim several "inalienable" freedoms.
But that wasn't the point I was making at all--
Have you ever heard of the Monroe Doctrine? It was an effort to stop imperialism. Specifically European imperialism, but it was part of a bigger ideal called isolationism that we decided to just throw out the window whenever we saw fit. Thus America itself became an imperial power of sorts.
The original intent of the Founding Fathers was that the US would act to prevent Europe from meddling in American affairs (The continent America, not the USA), but ALSO that the US would remain neutral from all conflicts that didn't involve us.
In WW I & II our nation's interests got caught up and we got dragged in. But Vietnam and Korea had NOTHING to do with the US, and meddling with them was a STUPID, IGNORANT policy that went against the Founding Fathers in every way possible.

Bush is a dumbass. Is this new? But he wasnt the only one who thought Iraq was developing nukes...

Dude, I'm not saying that Bush was stupid for thinking Iraq was developing nukes. I'm saying he's stupid for invading a nation that had no intentions to attack the US, had no ties to Al Queda, and in general wasn't a threat in any way. I'm ALSO saying he's a moron for carrying out a conflict in such a dumb ass way.

Neuro said all my country does is cause death. Is THAT not more ignorant than my statement? Holland got WRECKED. In like 2 weeks.

Uh, no. The US has really had little successful politically "helpful" actions in the last six decades or so. Yeah, we got WWII right. But after that, things went downhill fast. Vietnam, Korea and Iraq are all miserable failures where all that we succeeded in was killing massive numbers of people, and getting massive numbers of our own killed in turn. And yeah, Poland (not Holland, dipshit) got hit pretty hard early on in WWII. But they were the first the Germans hit and had little or no warning. They were also militarily insignificant compared to Germany, who had a much stronger economy and much better technology. So no, they weren't just a "target", they were the victims to a surprise attack and didn't have the resources to counter. Further, the Brits were prevented from coming to their aid by other events, so they were trapped all alone facing a far superior enemy.

America: largest relief-giving country in the history of our planet. THAT is a fact.

Yes, but we're well on our way to losing that title. And we also happen to be the most damaging nation in the world, too. Again, back to the three big miserable failures: Vietnam, Korea and Iraq. Every one of them we succeeded in nothing but slaughter.

Why dont you get on neuros back? His \"facts\" are always distorted, and some of them sound like they were made up on the spot.

I'm not so much on Neruo's side as I am against you. Yeah, like I said, Neruo botched some facts, but not NEARLY as bad as you. And you're not really the one to speak about botching facts.

He has stereotyped my entire culture as a buch of war mongering, blood thirsty extremists. All i said was his country gets defeated alot and WOOOW, i must have stepped over the line!!!

You really, really need to take your history.
No, the US isn't a giant collectively bloodthirsty nation. But we do cause a lot of harm, so his statement is, in part, somewhat valid. Ignorant, yes.
Meanwhile, you're making the point that his nation is an "easy target" is inaccurate and not chronologically up-to-date. Not to mention, you REALLY need to work on your communication skills. You didn't just say his country gets defeated a lot, you mocked every aspect of his culture. Really, you're just being a massive hypocrite, accusing him of stereotyping your culture (which he is), when you're just doing the same thing to him.

We didnt care about the Holocaust.....did Holland?

Uh...yeah. Quite a bit, actually, SEEING AS HOW IT WAS HAPPENING TO ITS OWN CITIZENS. Nimwit.
They cared plenty, they just weren't in a position to do anything

We werent necessary. Stalin would have freed Europe

You're right there, Russia wasn't in any position to defeat Germany at that point.