Thread: You Or 10 Others?

Originally Posted by Conforming

what of a room full of priests?
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muhahahaha.

On another topic: Isn't it murder to knowingly let someone (or 10 people) die? It just doesn't matter if you don't know the people. If you knew it were your friends or family, or even the people you hate, then all of a sudden it seems more real, and thus bad.

Originally Posted by Neruo

Isn't it murder to knowingly let someone (or 10 people) die? [/b]

Choosing the option of ten people dying would be murdering ten people. I would rather be dead than live with having killed ten unknown people. If I could choose to kill pedophiles or rapists, I would feel fine with it, but I would not choose to kill ten unknowns.

I don't see how anybody could live with knowing they chose for ten unknowns to die out of 100% selfishness. The people who have given their lives for the freedoms we have, and in so many cases take completely for granted, thought nothing like that.

Maybe if it really came down to it and I had to make the big decision on the spot, I would chicken out and then have to be in therapy for the rest of my life, but I would be doing something terrible.

Originally Posted by Neruo

I'd choose to live. It's just... not a decision for me. I believe the human instinct towards self-preservation is just too strong.
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A great many people have shown otherwise. No matter what I would actually end up doing in that situation, I'm glad there are people who have it in them to die for others. We are reaping the benefits as we speak.

Originally Posted by Universal

A great many people have shown otherwise. No matter what I would actually end up doing in that situation, I'm glad there are people who have it in them to die for others. We are reaping the benefits as we speak.[/b]

Actually, I disdagree. I believe that if no-one was willing to risk death for anyone else, the world would be a MUCH better place. I think it;'s people's willingness to die for "the greater good" that has, being one factor, fucked the world up so badly.

Originally Posted by The

Actually, I disdagree. I believe that if no-one was willing to risk death for anyone else, the world would be a MUCH better place. I think it;'s people's willingness to die for "the greater good" that has, being one factor, fucked the world up so badly.
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No, the problem is people willing to risk their lives for THEMSELVES. The people willing to die for others are the ones who keep somewhat of a lid on those.

Originally Posted by The

Universal.

You could have quite easily saved 10 people within your lifetime. Why don't you feel bad about Those people you 'killed'.
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I've saved a lot of people in my life, some with my bare hands and some with my words. Also, my tax dollars have saved A LOT of people.

But more importantly, refraining from saving somebody is not the same as choosing for him to die. The dilemma this thread is about concerns whether you would flat out make a conscious decision for ten people to die in order to save yourself. Like, if somebody holds up an uzi with you on one side of the room and ten people on the other side and says, "I kill either you or them. You make the decision." Saying, "I choose them," is not the same as not sending help to another country. I believe in helping other countries any way, even to the point of being called all kinds of names for it.

Originally Posted by Universal

I've saved a lot of people in my life, some with my bare hands and some with my words. Also, my tax dollars have saved A LOT of people. [/b]

Do you really believe that all those bombs your tax money payed for even in the Long run saves people? (even when taken the standard of life out of the debate, btw people in japan still get little Hiroshima-babies.)

Anyhow, I guess that the average tax payer in America perhaps saved 1 or 2 people with it's money. Not like (relatively) America gives that much money to dieing people.

But more importantly, refraining from saving somebody is not the same as choosing for him to die. The dilemma this thread is about concerns whether you would flat out make a conscious decision for ten people to die in order to save yourself. Like, if somebody holds up an uzi with you on one side of the room and ten people on the other side and says, "I kill either you or them. You make the decision." Saying, "I choose them," is not the same as not sending help to another country. I believe in helping other countries any way, even to the point of being called all kinds of names for it.
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Isn't it a conscious decision Not to care, Not to do anything? I think solskye is right about that: both ways it is selfishness. Also, do you really think America is fighting For the people or just Against some archetype of Dictator-ship. If America really cared about random people, they would have saved Africa from it's dictators and wars. Only none of them had as much history with America as Saddam (on the field of violating human rights, Saddam by far wasn't the only bad kid in class).

I am serious about this, America isn't fighting For people, it is all just an almost symbolic fight against suppression. They reflect their own lust for freedom on other countries. I highly doubt many americans Really are about afghans and about Iraqis.

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Also, it is in human nature to make Some sort of sacrifice for 'the pack' or social group one is in. However thanks to society people don't help other people, people help (sacrifice something, if not everything) for ideas. Christianity and Islam are ideas that caused a lot of death and war, because people put 'the group', the Idea, above them self. Like TBM said.

Originally Posted by Universal

No, the problem is people willing to risk their lives for THEMSELVES. The people willing to die for others are the ones who keep somewhat of a lid on those. [/b]

The "greater good" and what really ARE the "best interests of others" are both completely subjective judgements. This is why I dislike patriotism and socialism so much - in fact, both make me very scared, to tell the truth. But getting back to the point - Universal, any sorry schmuck can be convinced to give his life for an unworthy cause. The lines you are delivering fall roughly in the same line of thought that makes people join armies - the same line of thought that GIVES countries human pawns to throw at each other.

Originally Posted by The

Universal, any sorry schmuck can be convinced to give his life for an unworthy cause. The lines you are delivering fall roughly in the same line of thought that makes people join armies - the same line of thought that GIVES countries human pawns to throw at each other.
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As sympathetic as I am to your motives, Universal, I completely agree with that. ^^

It's this, exact, concept that gives birth to rhetoric like "Either you're with us, or you're with the terrorists."
(...not to mention 95% of the dialogue on FOX News.)