Thread: Judging Pedophiles...

Originally Posted by Universal

I agree with a point Dennis Miller made. If you are hopelessly driven to molest kids, you have to kill yourself. Well, I'm not quite that harsh. You can just have yourself neutered instead. Whatever it takes.[/b]

I'm not sure that works (neutering, I mean; the suicide definitely would.)

The neutering would probably work but just on a superficial level. Inside they would still be pedophiles, the only difference is that maybe they wouldn't feel the need to act out their urges. But yes, that would be a good sollution to protect the children.

I don't know that any western government would suscribe to the mutilation of criminals. On the other hand, life without the possibility of parole, or the death penalty are current punishments which may be easier to extend to such criminals.

On the other hand, life without the possibility of parole, or the death penalty are current punishments which may be easier to extend to such criminals.[/b]

You're being ironical, right?

1. I'm pretty sure ironical is not a word.

2. I honestly think that incurable pedophiles that rape children should be put away forever, in one form or another.

It's an adjective, meaning the same as ironic...
I agree with you when it comes to life prison, but death penalty? Why do you think it should be aplied in those cases?

I think (O god protect me from the flames) there's a necessary difference between 'pedophile' and 'child molester', to a degree of magnitude the same as the difference between 'heterosexual' and 'rapist', or perhaps the difference between a gay person (who's a fine upstanding fellow in every way, and would you look at that, he's also gay) and a gay person (who completely defines himself by his magnified sexual urges, dances in a fairy costume at pride parades and eases himself to sleep at night with the grunting lullabies of hardcore porn vids).

The former term, pedophile, implies affinity, not action. There are a great amount of pedos who, per the strict definition of the word, love children, and love them to the point where the absolute last thing they could ever conceive of doing would be anything that might bring harm, discomfort, or trauma to a child, molestation chief among those impermissible crimes, and who rein in their wild sexual urges however they have to to ensure that they never, never, ever would violate a kid.

In my late elementary school years, or maybe early middle school, I made friends with a person online who I later, many years later, found out to be a pedophile. The thing is there was no way for me to have intuited that at the age I interacted with him - because there was no sexual undertone, no creepy calls for naked pictures or cybersex, none of the stereotypical things you figure a pedophile on the prowl must be doing to all the innocent children he's lured into his trap. That relationship was defined by having long talks about interesting subjects, playing online games together, and other casual deeds of camaraderie. He once and only once suggested we meet in real life - and I told him no, that was weird, and he quickly agreed. He then broke down and asked me to promise that if in the future circumstances changed and we ever did meet, and if in meeting he ever tried to do anything to me I didn't want him to do, that I would kick and scream and yell and get as far away from him as possible and call the police on his miserable ass. None of it made too much sense to me at the time, and eventually interests changed, buddy lists got wiped, and conversation there ceased.

So here's what I mean to say - that person is a pedophile. But does that sound like a child molester? Personally I find the two terms almost mutually exclusive - that anyone who loves kids to that creepy extent would never actually bring themselves to molest a child, and that a child molester in the end truly has no notion whatsoever or love or kindness in his heart, only selfish gratification.

This is problematic - we want to prevent molestation before it ever happens and lock up the molesters where they can never do damage, but I don't think it's as easy as ferreting out all people who self-identify as pedos and marching them off to concentration camp. Dare I say it, but I think some pedophiles - ones who understand the delicate nature of their obsession and the responsibility it necessitates to keep kids from coming to harm - can be good people.

Of course, though, if you're downloading shota, just burn in hell. Case closed.

Unfortunately, my opinion on such matters is very boring. I personally feel that no-one should be punished or held responsible for any of their actions, because it's not fair. You see, since I believe that free will does not exist, no one really has any choice. We have no control over our actions. The only society that would treat people fairly, however, is a very horrible one - where genetic engineering creates humans that are designed to be very similar. This in turn means that there is no need to punish people for being different. Which, essentially, is what pedophilia, homosexuality etc. are. Differences.
However, even I myself would not like to live in such a society. So, although I disagree with the modern justice system, I wouldn't want it any other way. Which kinda sucks.

Originally Posted by Pensive

Unfortunately, my opinion on such matters is very boring. I personally feel that no-one should be punished or held responsible for any of their actions, because it's not fair. You see, since I believe that free will does not exist, no one really has any choice. We have no control over our actions. The only society that would treat people fairly, however, is a very horrible one - where genetic engineering creates humans that are designed to be very similar. This in turn means that there is no need to punish people for being different. Which, essentially, is what pedophilia, homosexuality etc. are. Differences.
However, even I myself would not like to live in such a society. So, although I disagree with the modern justice system, I wouldn't want it any other way. Which kinda sucks.[/b]

boring..hows it boring. thats bold. you might as well say that we shouldnt put murderers in jail becuase its societies fault that they killed someone! but I dont see how any sane person can really mean this becuase it just opens the door for the murderer to kill again?

do you really mean actions or do you mean personality?

I dont think its 'fair' to compare pedophillia to homosexuality. homosexuality is between consenting adults. the problem that people have with pedophillia is that it involves an unconsenting child. while its true *as two posts above state* that the most common pedo would never actually harm a child themself - we still have the problem of pedo pornography. while the harmless pedo might not harm a child, what happens if they were to watch a video involving real children? those are still real children that were wronged.

im not saying punish pedos, or put them away - but we cant allow any pedo material on the market especially if it means real children will suffer from it.

Originally Posted by juroara

*as two posts above state*[/b]

Am I unworthy of a name?


Patrick, that's a pretty silly take on determinism. If a man kills someone, you say he's not responsible for the action because predicate conditions led, inescapably, to that murder. But if you cut this man out of spacetime moments before he draws the knife and does the deed, nobody ever gets killed. As a link in the chain of events, he is every bit as responsible for his actions as all the other things leading up to them.

Plus, there's plain common sense here. He may not be responsible for his actions, but certain causes borne against him as punishment will produce certain effects that will lessen the chances of him doing the same horrible things in the future. Surely this is what we mean with corrective punishment, right?

Originally Posted by Spamtek

Am I unworthy of a name?[/b]

I was in a rush, easter party and all. HOLA SPAMTEK!

Originally Posted by juroara

but I dont see how any sane person can really mean this becuase it just opens the door for the murderer to kill again?

do you really mean actions or do you mean personality?

I dont think its 'fair' to compare pedophillia to homosexuality. homosexuality is between consenting adults. the problem that people have with pedophillia is that it involves an unconsenting child. while its true *as two posts above state* that the most common pedo would never actually harm a child themself - we still have the problem of pedo pornography. while the harmless pedo might not harm a child, what happens if they were to watch a video involving real children? those are still real children that were wronged.

im not saying punish pedos, or put them away - but we cant allow any pedo material on the market especially if it means real children will suffer from it.[/b]

What you're saying is that I condone releasing pedophiles (and criminals) with no charge. I never said that. I would definitely not like that to happen - I'd rather they were incarcerated or killed. In the utopian society I described, crimes would not happen, so there would be no need to punish.

And although I wasn't comparing pedophilia and homosexuality, they are both products of personality and genetics.

I feel that no one deserves to be punished for anything. However, when this is necessary, I do not disagree with it.

Patrick, that's a pretty silly take on determinism. If a man kills someone, you say he's not responsible for the action because predicate conditions led, inescapably, to that murder. But if you cut this man out of spacetime moments before he draws the knife and does the deed, nobody ever gets killed. As a link in the chain of events, he is every bit as responsible for his actions as all the other things leading up to them.

Plus, there's plain common sense here. He may not be responsible for his actions, but certain causes borne against him as punishment will produce certain effects that will lessen the chances of him doing the same horrible things in the future. Surely this is what we mean with corrective punishment, right?[/b]

I agree that the man in your allegory is a link in a chain of events, but he is no more responsible for his actions than a peice in a game of chess.

And again, I do not stand in the way of corrective punishment when it is necessary. Achieving true justice requires too much of a sacrifice.

Originally Posted by Pensive

I feel that no one deserves to be punished for anything. However, when this is necessary, I do not disagree with it.
I agree that the man in your allegory is a link in a chain of events, but he is no more responsible for his actions than a peice in a game of chess.[/b]

I kind of agree w/ you there. We are all predestined to be whatever it is we are going to be. So if some psycho is becomes a pedifile, it is b/c he was predestined to be one. But, as human beings we cannot allow him to continue mollesting children b/c he was predestined to do so, for in many cases, we are also predestined to capture these freaks. Seriously though, these people need to be captured and punished! If I had my way, they would all be castrated, but that's just b/c I have absolutely no sympathy for these people. Most people are less judgemental than I am when it comes to this (lucky for the pedifiles). So, they are locked up for like 3 or 4 years, and when they get out, they commit the same crimes over again! Where does it stop? Of course, if they are captured they are only put in jail for another few years and get out again to commit the same crime. Perhaps by the 2nd time they would've figured out that this freak is just going to mollest again, but b/c of jail crowdings and such they are still let out! This is wrong. But, what can you do about it? Build more jails? Hmmm...

sorry, I dont think anyone is predestined to become anything - even if we have destinies we can turn away from them. People will buy into anything to blame an outside force for their mistakes. If someones a jerk they dont blame themselves but predestiny for being a jerk or God.