Thread: Why Are Americans So Angry?

Originally Posted by Half/Dreaming

I sometimes think people have forgotten then entire year of 2003 and the lead-up to the war.

Maybe the Truth was written over the LIES from 2003, in their minds?

Originally Posted by Neruo

Maybe the Truth was written over the LIES from 2003, in their minds?

Well, I guess all those UN nations lied about Saddam as well.

Originally Posted by Half/Dreaming

Well, I guess all those UN nations lied about Saddam as well.

yeah! They lied! "Blabla, we want actual proof that saddam has WMDs before we invade him for that exact reason, blabla". That is just liberal nonsense. Everyone knows, that in the real world, taking drastic measures without being sure they are justified, and without an attack-plan for that matter, is the MANLY way to go.

I don't know if it's true, but I read somewhere that after WWI the American people were very pacifistic, like they thought look what the stupid Europeans got us into... but WWII has turned them to be much more militaristic and they remained like that until today.

Originally Posted by Pwcca

All the hype about Iraq is just so much spin for popular consumption. If the exact same "atrocities" were happening in Africa (or I dare say any other non-Middle Eastern country for that matter), you can be assured the U.S. would NOT be sending troops there in droves.

I think the Rwandan Genocide is a good example of the situation you are describing.

Originally Posted by ranma187

ARMS DEALERS, are the richest bunch in the country right now. they have a bussiness to run, they have government influences to keep wars going so they sell their arms

Not only do they have government influences, they are the government. Lynne Cheney, Dick Cheney's wife was on the board of directors for Lockheed-Martin; one of the primary private military suppliers in our country.

'When the Bush administration first took office, it appointed 32 executives, paid consultants, or major shareholders of weapons contractors to top policymaking positions in the Pentagon, the National Security Council, the Department of Energy (involved in nuclear weapons development), and the State Department.'(http://www.worldpolicy.org/projects/...sThatBind.html)

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

I think the Rwandan Genocide is a good example of the situation you are describing.

The war in Iraq is about MANY things, not any one thing.

let me state first that i am an american.

during the past 7 and a half years of bush having his head in a place near his bush, i have felt ashamed, i have hated the image we project to the world because of him.

i stand by my country, i think we have made many important contributions to the welfare of all people, but i've noticed that we've made none of these contributions since bush got into office.

Bush is fucking america in the butt with a 22inch vibrator and he doesn't even know it. that's why america is angry.

as an american i can say i'm sorry we seem to suck so much right now. the image america is projecting isn't america, it is bush. entirely bush.

personally i think if i met bush in a bar without knowing he was president he'd be a cool guy to have a beer with. but some people [myself included] aren't suited for positions of power, some because of greed, others stupidity, it could be any number of reasons. myself, i'm too indecisive.

as for the war, were in over our heads. yes america, over our heads. if america had stayed out of the middle east from the beginning, we wouldn't have seen the tragedy of 9/11. since 79 we've been fucking with these people because they have a very different culture than ours. that is simply the way it is. i know some people from the middle east and just from spending time with them i realized that the war was pointless. they have a very different outlook on life, and it won't be changed. this war is illegal in the first place. we plainly have no right to be there. as stated in the video [thank you for posting by the way].

i hope the rest of the world can see through the lies of the bush admin. this is not america. bush has done the same as other presidents have and pushed america away from our doctrine and into their own. we need to go back to the way of our founding fathers and i urge other americans to fight for this.

thanks for reading.

Originally Posted by lysergic

i stand by my country, i think we have made many important contributions to the welfare of all people, but i've noticed that we've made none of these contributions since bush got into office.

We have continued to lead the world in foreign aid, and we have liberated two horribly oppressed countries that were ruled by international terrorist governments. Stick around, and you will eventually see how much better those countries become. Bush is hated by the world now, but he will be a hero in the history books. People are going to laugh about how hated he was because it will seem ridiculous.

Originally Posted by lysergic

this war is illegal in the first place. we plainly have no right to be there.

This is absolutely false. Just because the UN didnt have the balls to enforce their own protocols doesn't mean the war is illegal.

Saddam refused entry to UN inspectors on several occasions. ONE SINGLE INCEDENT of this happening is enough for dissarmament and removal from power. Although this doesn't necessarily mean we had to invade, it makes it perfectly legal.

Since we invaded Iraq, we have found thousands of gallons of liquid labeled "Pesticide", which were hidden in ammo dumps accompanied by only guns, missiles, rockets, etc., in the middle of the desert. "Pesticide" had no business being in those bunkers.

Saddam Hussein brought this upon his own country.

About Lies, about lead-up to the war?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=OgfzqulvhlQ

Those lies are are Paradigms of lies.

Watch it.

Originally Posted by Half/Dreaming

Saddam refused entry to UN inspectors on several occasions. ONE SINGLE INCEDENT of this happening is enough for dissarmament and removal from power. Although this doesn't necessarily mean we had to invade, it makes it perfectly legal.

That's all, folks. We were absolutely justified, not to mention all the other factors. Thats all that really matters, and I'm very upset that once again, the UN members left it up to us so they can be forever blameless. What a puppet organization. If the other nations followed the rules they set up, we would all be in Iraq together and things would be much better. The entire free world's effort in Iraq would be incredible.

I honestly think the other nations do this to take America down a peg or two.

Originally Posted by Half/Dreaming

I honestly think the other nations do this to take America down a peg or two.

With way too many people, that is a much higher priority than doing what is best for the world.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

With way too many people, that is a much higher priority than doing what is best for the world.

O yea, and it shows itself all the time. It seems that America can never do anything right, from our education to our foreign policy to our diet. With how much trash gets thrown our way, I would expect us to be a worthless nation.

I still want to know why every UN nation hasn't sent people to Iraq. Why did we even bother setting rules for Iraq back in '91.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

We have continued to lead the world in foreign aid, and we have liberated two horribly oppressed countries that were ruled by international terrorist governments. Stick around, and you will eventually see how much better those countries become. Bush is hated by the world now, but he will be a hero in the history books. People are going to laugh about how hated he was because it will seem ridiculous.

Sadly, I can understand where you are coming from with this. Hell, I even hope you are right. But the question is, do the ends always justify the means? I mean, Bush isn't hated for no reason. He is a jackass who thinks the president should be able to do whatever he/she wants with no checks, and his cronies in the administration are the biggest bunch of slimy, controlling, lying assholes I've ever seen in the White House (Cheney: well, I'm actually in the legislative branch (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!), and, well, yeah when I want to be Im in the executive, but actually part of neither, so yeah, I can do whatever I want, Gonzales: Next question. Next question. Next question. No, I'm actually refusing to answer any questions, except for my [outright lies]). I can see how you might be able to support this administration if you think the ends justify the means, however, I happen to not be of that opinion. I'm not playing party lines either, I know lying goes on on both sides. Don't you think humans should have a little more respect for other humans? Because I get the strong feeling that if Cheney or Bush could push a button, kill me and you with no consequences, and make $10, they would do it. I don't think anyone like that, no matter what they did, should be remembered fondly.

/end rant

The whole Bush hating trend will have disasterous effects to our nation. Future presidents will be afraid to make any decisions for fear of going through what George Bush has.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

I think the Rwandan Genocide is a good example of the situation you are describing.

Yeah and look how much media attention (or rather, lack thereof) that got. The attentions received in Africa are miniscule by comparison. This makes perfect sense, of course, when you consider that there's little to no oil on the African continent and therefore no profit. You don't honestly think America is solely invested in Iraq out of the goodness of its heart? That it's all one grandiose rescue mission? I'm not saying this condescendingly, I'm saying it because I've met some of "my fellow Americans" who really do think this to be the case. Because if that were true, CNN would be pumping out stories about Africa and elsewhere in the world, not just Iraq, Iraq, Iraq, (*cough*brainwash*cough*) Iraq, Iraq, ad nauseum.

The typically mentally sleeping American, who cannot even tell you what two bodies of water border their own country, knows a remarkable amount about Iraq but, unsurprisingly, can very likely not even tell you where on the globe Rwanda sits.

Originally Posted by Pwcca

You don't honestly think America is solely invested in Iraq out of the goodness of its heart? That it's all one grandiose rescue mission?

No, and I don't know anybody who claims it is. The war in Iraq is about MANY things. There is a big picture with many important details that added up to the necessity of war. It was not initiated merely to overthrow just another every day oppressive dictatorship. They were a suicide bomber, Islamofascist government with a history of WMD terrorism and who violated our ceasefire for 12 years on several terrorism grounds, among other things.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

No, and I don't know anybody who claims it is. The war in Iraq is about MANY things. There is a big picture with many important details that added up to the necessity of war. It was not initiated merely to overthrow just another every day oppressive dictatorship. They were a suicide bomber, Islamofascist government with a history of WMD terrorism and who violated our ceasefire for 12 years on several terrorism grounds, among other things.

And they have a lot of oil.

"If they turn on the radars we're going to blow up their goddamn SAMs (surface-to-air missiles). They know we own their country. We own their airspace... We dictate the way they live and talk. And that's what's great about America right now. It's a good thing, especially when there's a lot of oil out there we need."

— U.S. Brig. General William Looney
Washington Post, August 30, 1999
referring, in reality, to the brutal mass-murder
of hundreds of civilian Iraqi men, women and children
during 10,000 sorties by American/British war criminals
in the first eight months of 1999

Originally Posted by Pwcca

And they have a lot of oil.

Oil in their country and apparently one asshole general in ours. What does that prove?

Yes, why not ignore the video I posted. UV, half/dreaming, any comment on your honest government? Yeah. It's so twilight-zone to think that they would have lied to you. It's so far out there. They never would lie. Noooo...

Originally Posted by Half/Dreaming

Saddam refused entry to UN inspectors on several occasions. ONE SINGLE INCEDENT of this happening is enough for dissarmament and removal from power. Although this doesn't necessarily mean we had to invade, it makes it perfectly legal.

So if Russia asked you, if they could see your weapons, during the cold war, and you refused, they would have had the right to invade you?

It isn't an universal law that every country has to do what the UN says. You had as much right to invade Iraq as you have to invade Cambodia, Pakistan, darfur, any fucked up, shit-poor country that doesn't see why the UN should have the right to know what they are doing in their own country.

But the American Government never really respected privacy, did they? Heck, if I refused to have my phone-calls eavesdropped, It would be legal to throw me in Abu-griab. By your standards. That doesn't make it right or legal in any humanitarian sense.

Maybe we are there for oil, and maybe we aren't, I really don't care. The whole debate is about the cause of war, and we had perfect cause to topple the Hussein regime. Thats all that really matters.

Neruo, don't change the subject to Russia. Besides, the UN didn't tell Russia they had to submitt to weapons inspections. The UN told Saddam he had to, and he wouldn't even be in that situation if he never invaded Kuwait. Saddam brought this upon himself.

For the last time, our government doesnt go down the phone book and pick out numbers at random to tap. They specifically target certain people after much intelligence is given. I have no problem with that, because I know the people they throw in Guantanamo are the biggest scum on the planet.

Originally Posted by Half/Dreaming

Maybe we are there for oil, and maybe we aren't, I really don't care. The whole debate is about the cause of war, and we had perfect cause to topple the Hussein regime. Thats all that really matters.

Yeah. That is probably really honest. You don't care any more about war. If it can be justified, why not go to war? You don't need actual reasons, you just need to provoke an other country, get your citizens stupid enough not to care and think anything, and Bam, you can have any war you want as a government.

Neruo, don't change the subject to Russia. Besides, the UN didn't tell Russia they had to submitt to weapons inspections. The UN told Saddam he had to, and he wouldn't even be in that situation if he never invaded Kuwait. Saddam brought this upon himself.

lol. "change the subject to russia"? How the hell did you get that idea. I was just showing, that if your reasoning was followed in history there would be like 3 times the amount of wars there has been already.

For the last time, our government doesnt go down the phone book and pick out numbers at random to tap. They specifically target certain people after much intelligence is given. I have no problem with that, because I know the people they throw in Guantanamo are the biggest scum on the planet.

Here you are just wrong. Look some around on the internet. Ofen the only crime the people that were thrown in jail, illegality, even to the constitution, are mostly only guilty of being dark-coloured and having travelled to some Islamic country.

Why do you trust your government so much to make such decisions? You have no right to trust them, they have proven to fuck up for years.

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You are just outright lying. Most people that have been in guantanamo have not been convicted of ANYTHING. You just trust your government, and it's army that Clearly has some people in it that like to torture and fuck with innocent people, for what reason?

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http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_ne...ticle_continue

YEAH. Great fucking judgement. Biggest scum on the earth. It could happen to you, if your family originated to the middle east, and you happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. Fucking idiot. Read a proper newspaper or something. Watch and for once Act on the war crimes and war lies your government spreads.

I never said people in Guantanamo were convicted of anything. But they are guilty of treason and terrorism. And for the last time, I am not a big fan of the Patriot Act.

I also never said I don't care about war. I meant that I don't care for all this speculation about oil and all the other BS. The debate is about wether we should be there or not, and we should. We followed through with the threats we, and you, made to Saddam back in 1991.

You don't think your governments have you fooled? They know as well as the US that Saddam was begging to be removed from power, but they chose to take the "anti war" path so all the blame can be placed on the US. It is either that, or they really are just all talk.

America is the muscle for the wars European leaders are too scared to fight. They helped set laws for Saddam, that they promised to enforce, then backed out (1930's Germany comes to mind). Plus, they have too much to gain from not fighting. They save money and have the opportunity to talk back to America. You know, your leaders probably have just as big a boner for money as our leaders. Mix that with an opportunity to turn their noses up to a superior country, and you get "anti war sentiments".

Why won't your countries take responsibility for the promises they make? Empty threats are a joke to terrorists.

Also, check this out:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...0021002-2.html