Thread: Why Are Americans So Angry?

Everyone who posts regularly in this forum on current geopolitical issues (the Iraq war, specifically) - regardless of what sides of the fences you stand on - should sit back, shut up and give these gentlemen a moment of your time.

Why Are Americans So Angry?

Yeah, its pretty much the same stuff that was in bowling for columbine. I didn't listen to it end to end but the general gist is whats been shoved down peoples throats that they (unfortunately) believe.

A good vid although I was expecting something a little bit flashier at first.. XD Not some old man at a podium.

Reality Tv.

The first speaker speaks much truth, but has a couple misconceptions about America. For one, he said we should fall back to our origional foreign policy of peace and trade with all world nations. If my American history is correct we were spawned out of war and isolationist ideals. Also, his theory that leaving everybody alone will bring peace is questionable.

I know how I come off when i support war, but evasion and talk are not a defense against conflict. Unfortunately, neither is premature action. That's about all i can say.

To me, it's not about WMDs. The jihad ideal seems more dangerous to me.

Originally Posted by Half/Dreaming

The first speaker speaks much truth, but has a couple misconceptions about America. For one, he said we should fall back to our origional foreign policy of peace and trade with all world nations. If my American history is correct we were spawned out of war and isolationist ideals.

That's more than a misconception, it's a lie. Since its very inception America was formed on blood and terror. Christopher Columbus the Butcher erected policies making it legal for new arrivals to feed living Native American men, women and children to their dogs. And this is the same man America honors (and lies about in the history books) with a holiday. This would be akin to Germany still celebrating Adolph Hitler's birthday. Can you imagine the outcry the world would have in response to that? Yet lo and behold, through American mass deception, the U.S. has painted a violent sadistic man, who according to any text book would be described as a homicidal psychopath, into a worshipable hero and an icon.

I'm not sure what the video is about, having not had the opportunity to watch it, but the posts here remind me of the words of Ramsey Clark, former U.S. Attorney General.

"The greatest crime since World War II has been U.S. foreign policy."

All the hype about Iraq is just so much spin for popular consumption. If the exact same "atrocities" were happening in Africa (or I dare say any other non-Middle Eastern country for that matter), you can be assured the U.S. would NOT be sending troops there in droves.

Not a lot has changed, historically, for America. Half a century later and they're still falling back on barbarism and terror (and I say this as an American expatriate myself.) Case in point:

"We have no honorable intentions in Vietnam. Our minimal expectation is to occupy it as an American colony and maintain social stability for our investments. This tells why American helicopters are being used against guerrillas in Colombia and Peru. Increasingly the role our nation has taken is the role of those who refuse to give up the privileges and pleasures that come from the immense profits of overseas investment."

— Martin Luther King, Jr.
New York City
April 4, 1967

Originally Posted by Pwcca

All the hype about Iraq is just so much spin for popular consumption. If the exact same "atrocities" were happening in Africa (or I dare say any other non-Middle Eastern country for that matter), you can be assured the U.S. would NOT be sending troops there in droves.

I think the Rwandan Genocide is a good example of the situation you are describing.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

I think the Rwandan Genocide is a good example of the situation you are describing.

The war in Iraq is about MANY things, not any one thing.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

I think the Rwandan Genocide is a good example of the situation you are describing.

Yeah and look how much media attention (or rather, lack thereof) that got. The attentions received in Africa are miniscule by comparison. This makes perfect sense, of course, when you consider that there's little to no oil on the African continent and therefore no profit. You don't honestly think America is solely invested in Iraq out of the goodness of its heart? That it's all one grandiose rescue mission? I'm not saying this condescendingly, I'm saying it because I've met some of "my fellow Americans" who really do think this to be the case. Because if that were true, CNN would be pumping out stories about Africa and elsewhere in the world, not just Iraq, Iraq, Iraq, (*cough*brainwash*cough*) Iraq, Iraq, ad nauseum.

The typically mentally sleeping American, who cannot even tell you what two bodies of water border their own country, knows a remarkable amount about Iraq but, unsurprisingly, can very likely not even tell you where on the globe Rwanda sits.

Originally Posted by Pwcca

You don't honestly think America is solely invested in Iraq out of the goodness of its heart? That it's all one grandiose rescue mission?

No, and I don't know anybody who claims it is. The war in Iraq is about MANY things. There is a big picture with many important details that added up to the necessity of war. It was not initiated merely to overthrow just another every day oppressive dictatorship. They were a suicide bomber, Islamofascist government with a history of WMD terrorism and who violated our ceasefire for 12 years on several terrorism grounds, among other things.

America was 'attacked' (it wasn't even really an attack, it was more of a statement) mainly because some groups in the middle-east had the feeling America was doing wrong things in their region.

And really, what the hell was America Ever doing there? Can some one tell me what the hell was the (first) reason for America to ever set foot near the middle-east?

America's current intervention-strategy comes from an intervention strategy. The 'terrorists' you are so afraid of have NEVER attacked a country unless that country had something to do military of politically, with the country or region those terrorists claim to represent.

-

Besides that, it was a pretty good speech. Probably very true. Probably it has made no-one wiser : / Most of the people that see and hear such things, already know, or already chosen not to care.

Originally Posted by Neruo

America was 'attacked' (it wasn't even really an attack, it was more of a statement) mainly because some groups in the middle-east had the feeling America was doing wrong things in their region.

And really, what the hell was America Ever doing there? Can some one tell me what the hell was the (first) reason for America to ever set foot near the middle-east?

America's current intervention-strategy comes from an intervention strategy. The 'terrorists' you are so afraid of have NEVER attacked a country unless that country had something to do military of politically, with the country or region those terrorists claim to represent.

-

Besides that, it was a pretty good speech. Probably very true. Probably it has made no-one wiser : / Most of the people that see and hear such things, already know, or already chosen not to care.

Over 3000 dead civilians is a hell of a lot more than a "statement"

First of all, the constant conflict between Jews and Muslims for over 2000 years is the ultimate cause of violence, and has led to every foreign intervention.

The problems in the Middle East are related to European intervention there, dating back all the way to the Crusades and maybe even farther. This also includes England's intervention in the area. America's history in the Middle East started after WW2 when we gave Israel to the Jews. There was senseless violence over the Gaza strip that never resolved itself, so we decided to draw boundaries. This was seen by Muslims as an unfair act by Christians to their Jewish friends, instead of the attempt to create peace that it was meant to be. It has snowballed ever since then. In the end, all problems in the Middle East stem from the selfishness and spite of fanatical Muslims and Jews. Our attempts to create peace there were seen as an act of agression. Their selfishness and racism against Jews is the cause of turmoil.

American and European attempts to save lives in the late 1940's drew us into the 2000 year war.

Originally Posted by Half/Dreaming

Over 3000 dead civilians is a hell of a lot more than a "statement"

No, actually it isn't. It's very bad, sure. But an attack almost implies it had some sort of tactical goal or something. I don't think you can just use 'attack' when it comes to politics. The word has just been used because it's a strong word. But the dead people are part of the statement. An attack is more of an act of war. I don't think bin laden really though he would ever totally cripple America's infrastructure and such.

This is how I see it:

Statement: Blowing up statue
Attack: a tactical strike against a country's infrastructural, economical and military stuff with as goal to hurt the country.

9/11 was somewhere in between. It didn't really hurt your country that bad, enough offices to go around in Manhattan.

First of all, the constant conflict between Jews and Muslims for over 2000 years is the ultimate cause of violence, and has led to every foreign intervention.

What the hell? Religions have been butchering each other all over the world since the dawn of civilisation. A huge Jewish lobby in your government doesn't give you a free-pass to mess things up in the middle-east and claim 'they attacked us for no reason'.

The problems in the Middle East are related to European intervention there, dating back all the way to the Crusades and maybe even farther. This also includes England's intervention in the area. America's history in the Middle East started after WW2 when we gave Israel to the Jews. There was senseless violence over the Gaza strip that never resolved itself, so we decided to draw boundaries. This was seen by Muslims as an unfair act by Christians to their Jewish friends, instead of the attempt to create peace that it was meant to be. It has snowballed ever since then. In the end, all problems in the Middle East stem from the selfishness and spite of fanatical Muslims and Jews. Our attempts to create peace there were seen as an act of agression. Their selfishness and racism against Jews is the cause of turmoil.

Well, you did give the Jews a Shitload of weapons and HUGE amounts of money. All that, while they Jews in Israel never really acted fair and balanced. Actually, sometimes Israel acts like a giant douche.

That 2000-year war is of course bullshit. Muslims and jews haven't been systematically killing each other for 2000 years. Actually, they only are now, in the gaza-strip. It's a 59-year old conflict, since isreal was created, and you backed them up with a shitload of weapons, and you kept backing them up, and doing other shit beside that.

America's fault was, to just give Israel more and more money, while it was pushing it's borders. And it still is. Israel is claiming more and more land, funded with your money. The hopelessness, the ability to do anything, just mentally obliterates the innocent people in Palestine, making them turn to religious extremism.

America should have stop funding when it became overly appearant peace was going to be impossible, the way both parties acted. Acted like retards, that is.

It like 600 dollar per Israeli per year you are giving, you know that? It's just silly. Ha. It's like communism, giving away money

ARMS DEALERS, are the richest bunch in the country right now. they have a bussiness to run, they have government influences to keep wars going so they sell their arms

Originally Posted by ranma187

ARMS DEALERS, are the richest bunch in the country right now. they have a bussiness to run, they have government influences to keep wars going so they sell their arms

Not only do they have government influences, they are the government. Lynne Cheney, Dick Cheney's wife was on the board of directors for Lockheed-Martin; one of the primary private military suppliers in our country.

'When the Bush administration first took office, it appointed 32 executives, paid consultants, or major shareholders of weapons contractors to top policymaking positions in the Pentagon, the National Security Council, the Department of Energy (involved in nuclear weapons development), and the State Department.'(http://www.worldpolicy.org/projects/...sThatBind.html)

Originally Posted by Neruo

No, actually it isn't. It's very bad, sure. But an attack almost implies it had some sort of tactical goal or something. I don't think you can just use 'attack' when it comes to politics. The word has just been used because it's a strong word. But the dead people are part of the statement. An attack is more of an act of war. I don't think bin laden really though he would ever totally cripple America's infrastructure and such.

This is how I see it:

Statement: Blowing up statue
Attack: a tactical strike against a country's infrastructural, economical and military stuff with as goal to hurt the country.

9/11 was somewhere in between. It didn't really hurt your country that bad, enough offices to go around in Manhattan.



What the hell? Religions have been butchering each other all over the world since the dawn of civilisation. A huge Jewish lobby in your government doesn't give you a free-pass to mess things up in the middle-east and claim 'they attacked us for no reason'.



Well, you did give the Jews a Shitload of weapons and HUGE amounts of money. All that, while they Jews in Israel never really acted fair and balanced. Actually, sometimes Israel acts like a giant douche.

That 2000-year war is of course bullshit. Muslims and jews haven't been systematically killing each other for 2000 years. Actually, they only are now, in the gaza-strip. It's a 59-year old conflict, since isreal was created, and you backed them up with a shitload of weapons, and you kept backing them up, and doing other shit beside that.

America's fault was, to just give Israel more and more money, while it was pushing it's borders. And it still is. Israel is claiming more and more land, funded with your money. The hopelessness, the ability to do anything, just mentally obliterates the innocent people in Palestine, making them turn to religious extremism.

America should have stop funding when it became overly appearant peace was going to be impossible, the way both parties acted. Acted like retards, that is.

It like 600 dollar per Israeli per year you are giving, you know that? It's just silly. Ha. It's like communism, giving away money

The war between Jews and Muslims has been raging for even more than 2000 years, actually, a whole lot longer. Do you know anything about it? The dissagreement between Jews and Muslims stems all the way to Abraham's sons, Ishmael and Issac. Ishmael was the first son, even though it wasn't with Abraham's wife (with Hagar, a female servant). Without going more into it, Muslims believe the first son was the one God promised, Jews believe it was the second. Since God/Allah promised the true son the land of Israel, both religions think they are entitled to the land. The Jews expelled the inhabitants of the land when they were freed from Egypt. The expelled people were the ancestors of Muslims, and they are angry about it.

I'm not going to pretend i care about who's land it is. All that matters is that in like 4000 years, they havent resolved the conflict by themselves. They are both stubborn. I know its easier for you to blame the US, but it is not true.

Heres a funny fact. Both sons were promised a nation (Hebrew and Islam) According to the bible, God said (about Ishmael) "his hand shall be against every man, and every man's hand against him". Sounds a lot like what jihad has done.

Originally Posted by Neruo

Statement: Blowing up statue
Attack: a tactical strike against a country's infrastructural, economical and military stuff with as goal to hurt the country.

Your definition of attack is exactly what Al Qaeda claims the 9/11 attacks (not the "9/11 statements") were about. They were, according to them, trying to cripple the U.S. economy and incite a war between the Middle East and the West. They did screw up our stock market and airline travel numbers for a little while, but the big result was that two Islamofascist governments got overthrown. Despite Al Qaeda's claims, I think the 9/11 attacks were really about cave men who were jealous as Hell of the results of capitalism and wanted to lash out against power while getting power for themselves. That's the Al Qaeda leaders I am talking about there. The people who actually committed suicide to kill thousands of innocent people were just brainwashed dumbasses with nothing to live for. If Al Qaeda wants to pull that shit again, we will be glad to take over a few more countries. Idiots.

The Jews expelled the inhabitants of the land when they were freed from Egypt.

Are you talking about moses freeing jews, well this didn't happen.

Some archaeologists believe Moses was a fictional character, since no physical evidence like pottery shards or stone tablets have been found to corroborate his existence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moses#_note-0

Sorry if your not. However, it seems like your a brainwashed christian. Stick to the facts, not the bible.

Also can you quote your source when you got the fact that muslim has being fighting jews for 2000years. As Neuro is correct.

Originally Posted by wendylove

Are you talking about moses freeing jews, well this didn't happen.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moses#_note-0

Sorry if your not. However, it seems like your a brainwashed christian. Stick to the facts, not the bible.

Also can you quote your source when you got the fact that muslim has being fighting jews for 2000years. As Neuro is correct.

You're talking to an atheist, my friend. However, it is pretty much proven that some biblical events happened. Im not saying Moses existed or he parted the Red Sea. But the Jews were slaves of the Egyptians, and they did reclaim their land.

I was just posting what the Jews and Muslims believe, which i think is a bunch of mumbo-jumbo.

O yea, Muslims havent been fighting Jews for 2000 years, but they, and their ancestors have. Get a refresher course on mid-East history.

But the Jews were slaves of the Egyptians, and they did reclaim their land.

Again where is your source.

O yea, Muslims havent been fighting Jews for 2000 years, but they, and their ancestors have. Get a refresher course on mid-East history.

Their a big difference between muslims and jews fighting and their ancestors fighting. Plus ancestors is so vague.

Originally Posted by wendylove

Again where is your source.

Their a big difference between muslims and jews fighting and their ancestors fighting. Plus ancestors is so vague.

Known history is my source. If you want, check out "Gaza Strip" on Wikipedia. Of course, since you claim everything in the Bible is an utter lie, it won't make sense to you. You need to start realizing that the Old Testament has a lot of truthful historical events in it. Don't let your atheism (i assume) blind you.

You are completely missing the point. There has been conflict and animosity between the two cultures for thousands of years, that has untimately led to the conflict we see today. Thats all i was trying to say. And it all stems back to both religions claiming that the land is theirs. Just understand that i am NOT saying their claims are meritable.

If Al Qaeda wants to pull that shit again, we will be glad to take over a few more countries. Idiots.

Al Qaeda has grown in popularity and got stronger, because america invaded Iraq. Now Iraq is in civil war and Al Qaeda has got more support in the middle east then america. The point is this taking over countries is different then actually chaning countries so their not extremeist. See if america takes over another country then it will just become another Iraq, does the normal american want another Iraq?

People should make more of an effort to resolve problems with words

Originally Posted by wendylove

Al Qaeda has grown in popularity and got stronger, because america invaded Iraq. Now Iraq is in civil war and Al Qaeda has got more support in the middle east then america. The point is this taking over countries is different then actually chaning countries so their not extremeist. See if america takes over another country then it will just become another Iraq, does the normal american want another Iraq?

Al Qadea has not gotten stronger. They are simply experiencing a come-back from the 3/4 of them we killed or detained in the early years of the wars. Pretty soon people there we understand that joining Al Qaeda is a death sentence.

I'm from the U.S. and I blame Fergie for our anger. LOL.

In all seriousness, I dont consider myself angry at all. I really never get mad. I get frustrated, who doesen't?

In the stereotype of Americans, we are loud and abnoxious. Our education system is really bad. Inner-city schools cant teach their kids because they dont want to learn. They live in an environment that casts out intelligence and replaces it with gang life. As a result, we are uneducated and poor. We have the hip-hop culture, that is slowely dying (thank God), that gives the impression to little kids that it is cool to be a thug. (Thank You G-Unit) If you need proof of this image affecting our youth, do you remember that Nelly song Grillz? When that song came out, so many teens got those grills just because they liked the song. It was unbelievable. The American media is to blame for creating an image that we have as Americans. Pop culture is killing America.

Al Qadea has not gotten stronger. They are simply experiencing a come-back from the 3/4 of them we killed or detained in the early years of the wars. Pretty soon people there we understand that joining Al Qaeda is a death sentence.

I will admit the strength of Al Qaefa is exaggerated, however the strength of fundamentalist islam is getting stronger. See what is a death sentence to a person who thinks dying a martha will get you in heaven. Plus saying places like Iraq is getting better and war is nearly won is wrong. Vietnam comes to mind. Seriously speaking why isn't america pulling out its troops from Iraq? The anwser is because it is still messed up. Seriously america is not going to win the Iraq war and then the terriorist will have two places to hide, Iraq and pakistein. Well, assuming the sunni's win.