Thread: Lets talk about drugs!

Oneironaught and Oneironaught;

I think you have misunderstood the nature of the SPECIFIC type of drugs I was discussing; Psychedelics. And specifically shamanic ones.

Mushrooms - non toxic, non harmfull.
Yopo(Calcium Bufotenate) - very slightly toxic yet still far less than coffee
Pure DMT - non-toxic, nonharmfull, made in all mamals and many plants
Marijuana - non-toxic, non-harmfull
LSA seeds - slightly toxic, yet not significantly. Legally available everywhere.
Salvia - non-toxic, bizarre, but non-harmfull
And the odd one out: LSD -slightly toxic, yet still far less than coffee.

These psychedelics in uttery RARE cases can trigger a "sleeping" mental disorder, but I repeat this is extremely rare. An irresponsible kid of 14 who decides to go eat some mushrooms will be very very sorry and scared off like a rabbit after a traumatically fearfull, ashaming, negative experience.

Other than that... what dangers do you speak off?
Gateway drugs? I've seen a friend of mine throw away his SPEED while on LSD swearing to never use speed again. Isn't that the reversed situation of what "gateway drugs" means? I don't know why you see dangers in the Psychedelic substances I lsited above.

Originally Posted by SKA

Other than that... what dangers do you speak off?

The danger I (personally) am referring to are the dangers of someone's reaction to the trip, while on the trip, which is (by you, I, or any psychoanalytical professional) completely unpredictable, on a case-by-case basis. No amount of our rationale can assume what someone's reaction to, say, a really heavy LSD trip is going to be. Depending on their environments, psychological backgrounds and/or supervision (ie; having a 'sitter'), a bad trip could lead from anything from accidental injury to suicide.

Trying as best you can to take an unbiased stance on the issue, could you disagree with this?

I understand what you mean about the others as well but, promoting things to the masses that alter mind states, in such an open forum as Dream Views, is simply playing with fire, for a number of reasons. I (and again, I'm speaking on a personal basis, which has not much influence on the imposition of the rules) don't promote drug use to anyone that I can't be there to take responsibility for, at the time of their (at least first) experimentation or am, otherwise, confident that they will be properly cautious and/or supervised. You simply do not know how people will react, individually.

Originally Posted by Oneironaut

The danger I (personally) am referring to are the dangers of someone's reaction to the trip, while on the trip, which is (by you, I, or any psychoanalytical professional) completely unpredictable, on a case-by-case basis. No amount of our rationale can assume what someone's reaction to, say, a really heavy LSD trip is going to be. Depending on their environments, psychological backgrounds and/or supervision (ie; having a 'sitter'), a bad trip could lead from anything from accidental injury to suicide.

Trying as best you can to take an unbiased stance on the issue, could you disagree with this?

I TOTALLY agree with that, but that is exactly the reason why I am PRO-drug discussion. People are curios by nature and without any help or guidance they will mindfully do drugs. If you read the topic carefully you would see how many times I've warned about destructive, dangerious drugs, and how much I have made the point to any and everyone that you should not just go ahead and eat some mushrooms unprepared. I have really emphasised that such things(Psychedelics) should not be done untill one has reached mental maturity, to do it in a suitable, peacefull set&setting and also the clear point that this is not for everyone. I've listed all the possible negative feelings you might encounter on psychedelic experiences.

I think this means I am anti-censorship and pro-harmreduction, cuz people will do drugs anywayz; love it or hate it, but please aknowledge they do. Some important information for those interrested was right there in that topic. I even tried talking a guy out of ever taking opiates and amphetamines again, together with others, and made the point that it is no good if the centre of attention and amusement in your world is drugs only.... Now that all that is lost I don't think people will stop doing drugs.

Do you think cheesy "school bands" singing "Just say no"-songs in schools will reduce people's curiosity for drugs? I think it serves as the opposite. If you tell people "No that is forbidden fruit, don't go there cuz drugz are bad hmmkay" it only makes them wonder "why not?" and makes them more curious. Now the curious people just have another valuable source of truthfull information on the subject less.

Originally Posted by SKA

I TOTALLY agree with that, but that is exactly the reason why I am PRO-drug discussion. People are curios by nature and without any help or guidance they will mindfully do drugs. If you read the topic carefully you would see how many times I've warned about destructive, dangerious drugs, and how much I have made the point to any and everyone that you should not just go ahead and eat some mushrooms unprepared. I have really emphasised that such things(Psychedelics) should not be done untill one has reached mental maturity, to do it in a suitable, peacefull set&setting and also the clear point that this is not for everyone. I've listed all the possible negative feelings you might encounter on psychedelic experiences.

I think this means I am anti-censorship and pro-harmreduction, cuz people will do drugs anywayz; love it or hate it, but please aknowledge they do. Some important information for those interrested was right there in that topic. I even tried talking a guy out of ever taking opiates and amphetamines again, together with others, and made the point that it is no good if the centre of attention and amusement in your world is drugs only.... Now that all that is lost I don't think people will stop doing drugs.

Do you think cheesy "school bands" singing "Just say no"-songs in schools will reduce people's curiosity for drugs? I think it serves as the opposite. If you tell people "No that is forbidden fruit, don't go there cuz drugz are bad hmmkay" it only makes them wonder "why not?" and makes them more curious. Now the curious people just have another valuable source of truthfull information on the subject less.

I understand how passionate (and responsible) you are about the subject, SKA, but it is not like we are being totally ignorant to the fact that people are curious. We are allowing discussion of drugs that pertain to dreaming. That, in turn, will probably make people more curious about certain drugs. Should that be the case (should they be of suitable age, IMO,) we can direct them to sites specific to giving that sort of information. Their research can be done off-site, and knowledge still gained. There are simply too many "posting-styles" that would hinder rather than help the attempt to be responsible, when allowing discussion about drugs to people 14-15 years old, and not everyone reads all the posts in a thread. Threads get countless pages long, and there is no way we can be sure to keep the responsible posters (such as yourself) visible in every portion of a discussion.

We are not coming down on the entire topic of discussing drugs, just that which does not fall under the umbrella of dreaming. Any further information can be gathered through the proper channels.

Originally Posted by SKA

Oneironaught and Oneironaught;

I think you have misunderstood the nature of the SPECIFIC type of drugs I was discussing; Psychedelics. And specifically shamanic ones.

Mushrooms - non toxic, non harmfull.
Yopo(Calcium Bufotenate) - very slightly toxic yet still far less than coffee
Pure DMT - non-toxic, nonharmfull, made in all mamals and many plants
Marijuana - non-toxic, non-harmfull
LSA seeds - slightly toxic, yet not significantly. Legally available everywhere.
Salvia - non-toxic, bizarre, but non-harmfull
And the odd one out: LSD -slightly toxic, yet still far less than coffee.

These psychedelics in uttery RARE cases can trigger a "sleeping" mental disorder, but I repeat this is extremely rare. An irresponsible kid of 14 who decides to go eat some mushrooms will be very very sorry and scared off like a rabbit after a traumatically fearfull, ashaming, negative experience.

Other than that... what dangers do you speak off?
Gateway drugs? I've seen a friend of mine throw away his SPEED while on LSD swearing to never use speed again. Isn't that the reversed situation of what "gateway drugs" means? I don't know why you see dangers in the Psychedelic substances I lsited above.

Since when are these drugs not harmful? They definatly cause damage to your mind and body. Decreasing motor skills/memory/ability to learn/concentration/damage to organs especially smoked substances... This sounds harmful to me. Moderate use wont have noticeable effects like this, but long term use will. And moderate use still does damage little by little.

Thats something you have to accept if you want to use psychedelics, you cant deny it. But hell, what DOESNT harm your body these days. They are still less harmful that drinking coffee everyday, or eating fast food or smoking cigarettes. So, you could call them non-harmful in that case.

I'm not against drugs at all, I just face the facts.