Thread: Lets talk about drugs!

^^^^ You obviously dont listen to music. Because that is definatly inspired by drugs. Plus just about everything else in entertainment. We probably would be living in a shithole without drugs. But we are also living in a shithole since they are illegal.

If we legalized drugs we could stop wasting money trying to fight drugs, and spend money on real problems, crime rate would probably go down 50%, drug use would be safer because the drugs would be safer, court systems wouldnt be backed up, organized crime would fall, it would help stop the spread of aids, save our fuckin tax dollars, illegal drug dealers would lose business, most drugs are safe unless abused, and we should have human rights.

Dont tell me that legalization would just cause more addicts... maybe like 2% more addicts tops, but those who are addicts, will be addicts anyways... so legalization can just help them die faster hahahaha.


oh and howie dont tell me you dont use drugs, ill bet anything you do. alcohol? nicotine? perscriptions? caffeine? ANYTHING that affects the way the mind and body works...

Originally Posted by Michael

If we legalized drugs... crime rate would probably go down 50%,

Since probably 90% of all crime is the fact that illegal drugs are possessed, used, sold, made, etc... , I'd say that (assuming my arbitrary number of 90% is correct) there would be a 90% cut in crime by default. If something is no longer illegal then it's no longer a crime to be associated with.

drug use would be safer because the drugs would be safer, court systems wouldnt be backed up, organized crime would fall, it would help stop the spread of aids, save our fuckin tax dollars, illegal drug dealers would lose business, most drugs are safe unless abused, and we should have human rights.

I agree with most of that. But none of us here are in charge of the nation's laws.

Dont tell me that legalization would just cause more addicts... maybe like 2% more addicts tops, but those who are addicts, will be addicts anyways...

How can "like 2% more" be people who already would have?

oh and howie dont tell me you dont use drugs, ill bet anything you do. alcohol? nicotine? perscriptions? caffeine? ANYTHING that affects the way the mind and body works...

He already said he's done some of the things that are not supposed to be discussed. And it's obvious that many people legally do the things you just mentioned. Remember, a lot of the staff has either admitted to having done various substances before or maybe do but not admit it. The same goes for many of the peon members, myself included.

So how does any of that affect the validity of the new rules? If anything, it makes the new rules that much more meaningful because they are actually supported by staff and members who have at various times admitted to having done drugs at some point in their lives. So, many of us have had experience as well. We're not all just "falling for the government propaganda" as you like to tell yourselves.

Some of you are acting like those in support of the new rules are somehow completely ignorant to the reality and effects of drugs. You're acting like this is Miss Jane-do-perfect - who's never even touched her own crotch - just spinning the "screw-the-members" wheel and taking the first position the pointer lands on.

In fact, some of you are forgetting the reality that people might be in support of this because they realise that certain things aren't appropriate for certain situations and audiences. But no, this is obviously all about "sticking it to the little man".

I've stayed out of this 'debate' for quite some time just because I've decided to sit back and watch the discussion evolve - mostly to see where everyone is coming from. Obviously I'm for drug discussion and whatnot, but if the admins decide to take it away then they take it away. Some excellent points have been made, but I see where the staff comes from; I think overall it's a 'better safe than sorry' kinda thing.

I'll be disappointed if discussion is taken away just because there were so many individuals here (who had experience with psychadelics) who really made me think. Drug discussion was something I really enjoyed about DV, not because I could openly talk about my own personal experience but because I could read others. I really learned a lot from some of the things I read, and it'll be unfortunate if this makes some of the members I truly respect leave.

That being said, I know that most of the staff and some of the people in favour of limited drug discussion have had experience, and that they're just trying to make everyone understand why this is being done, not that this is necessarily their choice. Either way, I see where they're coming from and I think it's pointless arguing, whatever decision is made is made. Hopefully I can find a drug discussing forum as insightful as the threads we had going on here.

Anyways, my two cents... and once again I'm in the middle ground of a debate.

I was responding to howie because although he admitted to using most of the drugs out there, he was saying how he would rather rid the world of all drugs. That pretty much hints to me that he doesn't like drugs and hints that he does not use any. But as I said before, he most likely does. He seems to think drugs are the problem, when it's the law. I simply just made up a list off the top of my head why drugs are not the real problem... sure there were some typos like the 2% deal, but you understand my point.

I already stated, as well as many others, why drugs are safe if used responsibly, and how they can expand you mind. My last post was just some things that have not been brought up yet, so I decided to do the honor.

oh and btw, that 2% number that i made up, refers to how some people can be addicts, but not be drug users. Think about it, if an addict never tries a drug he/she can still be an addict... but if they try drugs, then he/she will be at high risk of addiction... bottom line, you can be an addict but never know it.

EDIT: I do not disagree with the new rule. I see where they are coming from, and I respect the admin's choices for this.

So howie then it seems your mayority of bad trips have shaped your judgement. And if that leads you to conclude that drugs aren't good for you, you are most defenitely right. But what if I tell you Psychedelics, the drugs of this discussion, woul have done nothing but help SOME people? In their quest to find their orientation in life? In their quest of selfmedication(marijuana, Hash) to calm down their overly chaoric mind to a reasonable pace instead of being loaded up with docter prescribed opiates? In their queste to expand their consciousness and rse above the blindness of everyday life?

No matter how much we people from "democratic" countries like to think we're free; we live in slavery. From birth we are told to do this and do that and not to do this and not to do that. Constantly we are pressurised by the demand of: " What have you got to offer to society?". But not once is it important what WE want in this life and what society has to offer to us.

Let's see what this modern society has to offer us: Deskjobs? Stress? Coffee? Liqour? Bars? Clubs? Healthcare unaffordable to the less-wealthy? Insurances that suck us empty and weazle their way out of their promises? Taxes that go to places we won't benefit from? Psychiatrists that load up AD(H)D kids with amphetamines and opiates? Bloody, expensive wars in countries far far away in the name of "justice & freedom"? Cigarettes? Television with mindless programs and false news and information? Education that the less-wealthy can't afford? Hummers? I-pods? Cosmetic surgery? Botox? Foods chemically treated to have a nice color, stay fresh longer and smell nicer but are harmfull physically? Scooters? Fast cars? Cellphones?



These things are supposed to keep us satisfied and feed our desires. Well non of that would make me satisfied. In fact the opposite is true. It makes me sick.

What if none of those things is what you really desire? Note how all these things are based around making a profit. I don't want an I-pod; I want to see more artistic architecture around. I don't want a Deskjob; I want an artistic, multi-mediar carreer. I don't want war in Iraq, I want a peacefull relationship with the islamic world and militairy, purely defensive, effort HERE to prevent radicalist attacks HERE. I don't want opiates and amphetamines for my ADHD, I want to smoke Cannabis and Hasheesh instead for that purpose instead. I don't want a Beer, I wanna have mushrooms instead. I don't want to watch Reality-TV, Soap-operas, dirty politicians lying again and mindless action movies, I wanna see spiritualism dicussed, Documentaries about different cultures and world music being played and explained instead. ..etc

I could go on and on. But this does show that my Ideal is radically different from the socio-political norm. I am not satisfied with the options this society gives me. What I want isn't in the list of options they give me; it is often even illegal. I am glad enough I don't live in the US, because here I am at least a bit more free (Mushrooms, Cannabis & Hash ), but Still IMO there's far too little options to function successfully and have a future for people like me who share the same ideals. We are simply being forced into being simple creatures that work like slaves in cubicals and leave their passionate dreams far behind them. We are encouraged not to have any dreams and wishes to begin with, cause "dreaming is for fools" and doing so would be "irrational".

I think y'all need to watch "The Truman Show" again. It really ties into what I'm trying to say here.

BTW I have always been a very troubled child with an instable mind. If there's anything I've learned from psychedelic experiences and lucid dreaming it is to keep my head cool, to be able to handle myself and to function under the most extreme of circumstances; These experiences have made me more stable so they have a great potential for guided therapy for the mentally disturbed and instable. Yet our societies prefer to use crude medicine such as opiates and amphetamines instead.

Not everyone has my ideals and desires and I respect that. The thing that is really bugging me is that the other way around that is not the case. My values are not respected.


The least I can say is that I am glad that now, finally for the first time, we are having a civilised discussion about this issue. And that is the way to treat sensative subjects: Discussion, not censorship.

A misfit 14 year old girl named Sarah who has been emotionally abused by her parents joins dreamviews. She is also persecuted at school for her looks, interests, personality, ideas...the usual, mostly for being different. She has heard it all in school about drugs, sex, violence. She has been "educated" about drugs in class and by fellow students. She is very depressed. Her parents are controlling about ever aspect of her life. The guy she has a crush on doesn't like her, she has no fulfilling hobbies, has several papers due that she has no interest in, she is under tremendous pressure from her parents to do better, nothing she does is ever good enough, she doesn't fit in anywhere. Sound familiar anyone? Remember highschool?

Path A: dreamviews is censored

She reads a thread and some members gloat about alcohol from their recent weekend. She thinks wow, it must be cool to get drunk...after all all the cool seniors at school do it. She talks to a bad kid for the first time in math class. She talks about getting drunk making up a cool story. The bad kid invites her to a party. She sneaks out after a volatile interaction with her parents. She is very upset, crying about how much she hates her life. She goes to the party. After a few drinks she is staggering around laughing and enjoying the thrill of defying her mean parents and finally fitting in with something. It is sad because she really is smarter than that. Worse builds upon worse, she gets pregnant in her senior year, her parents kick her out, she lives in a trailer with a man who beats her. She is trapped in her situation and her child suffers as well. Her parents tell her this would have never happened if she still went to church, shame, shame on you Sarah!

Path B dreamviews is NOT censored

She reads a thread by SKA about some psychedelic experiences. Everything she learned in school taught that they were dangerous. She was very curious because this new information was complete and elaborate. She was really questioning the way she had been brought up anyway. She was going through a lot of guilt about thinking differently. She thinks about the kids who brag about getting drunk and how terrible they look and feel after a binge. She remembers a girl named Kayla in her band class who is one of the few classmates who doesn't pick on her. She talks to Kayla after class and they decide to start practicing together after school. She goes to Kayla's house one day. Her parents are hippies and very nice. Sarah talks to Kayla one day about psychedelics because of what she read on DV. Kayla takes her to talk to her mom about some of her experiences. Sarah can't believe how openly her mom talks about drugs. One day her and Kayla decide to take their first trip together with the loving support of Kayla's parents. It is a wonderful experience and she goes on in life to get a job and move away from her parents as soon as possible and becomes an artist.

BTW if SKA was appointed the official drug post moderator, that would ensure only intelligent discussion of drugs. And obviously (I hope) there would be a drugs only place in the forum, that way its easy to moderate...how could that not make everyone happy?

I have a question for you admins:

Is it ok for people to discuss the use of alcohol? What if a child reads about that and gets drunk? That means they had read something here and technically committed a crime. What if that kid got alcohol poisoning or died? But I guess that's perfectly ok because the other members were doing something perfectly legal.

There is unrest in the forest,
There is trouble with the trees,
For the maples want more sunlight
And the oaks ignore their pleas.

The trouble with the maples,
(And they're quite convinced they're right)
They say the oaks are just too lofty
And they grab up all the light.
But the oaks can't help their feelings
If they like the way they're made.
And they wonder why the maples
Can't be happy in their shade.

There is trouble in the forest,
And the creatures all have fled,
As the maples scream "Oppression!"
And the oaks just shake their heads

So the maples formed a union
And demanded equal rights.
"The oaks are just too greedy;
We will make them give us light."
Now there's no more oak oppression,
For they passed a noble law,
And the trees are all kept equal
By hatchet, axe, and saw.

Rush, Hemispheres, The Trees

Originally Posted by Lamneth-25

Path A: dreamviews is censored

...

Path B dreamviews is NOT censored

Somebody's grasping at straws.