Thread: Freedom of speec--, Oops.

Originally Posted by Mystic7

Oh I can't live without the law it's telling me what to do. Like Jorden Maxwell said. I'll think I'll be in charge of myself. And stick the law up your ass. It's for retarded people who need to be told what is right and wrong. The only law is the laws of nature. Anything else is a stupid trick that you fell for.

We shouldn't have laws against posssession of plants, but what about laws against murder, rape, armed robbery, child molestation, burglary, grand larceny, car jacking, arson, kidnapping, forgery, identity theft, wife beating, child beating, aggravated assault, and financial fraud? Should we not have laws against any of those things?

Originally Posted by Michael

I agree with you on this one.

It's pretty simple to understand that one doesn't need to be told what to do.

Like, even that plant in your avatar. If you have this plant it's illegal.
The law is so dumb.

It's not illegal at all. It just grows because that's how plants exist.

Originally Posted by Mystic7

It's pretty simple to understand that one doesn't need to be told what to do.

Like, even that plant in your avatar. If you have this plant it's illegal.
The law is so dumb.

It's not illegal at all. It just grows because that's how plants exist.

Interesting issue. What is your answer to my question?

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

We shouldn't have laws against posssession of plants, but what about laws against murder, rape, armed robbery, child molestation, burglary, grand larceny, car jacking, arson, kidnapping, forgery, identity theft, wife beating, child beating, aggravated assault, and financial fraud? Should we not have laws against any of those things?

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

We shouldn't have laws against posssession of plants

And yet we do. I wouldn't call it a law. You don't get it. There is no such thing as a law, other than the laws of nature.

We are the law. It's patriotic to think. Take the law into your hands. Don't neglect your responsibility to think. Even if it's illegal to take the law into your own hands. That's a trick ok? It's tricking you.......Get more smart.

Originally Posted by UNiversal Mind

what about laws against murder....[goes on to explain all the other horrible acts]

If you don't want to murder someone. Don't do it....If you are scared of others. Protect yourself. See this is thinking about life now....Something you have not done for a while yeah? Laws of nature are real.

UM, I don't mind those things being laws. But I don't like the cop system and things like that. I think we as a people should take law into out own hands and deal with criminals how we want to. If someone gets murdered, we murder them. If someone gets raped.... we kill the rapist... Laws are good, cops, FBI, DEA, etc. are BAD! Especially the DEA, I hate them from personal experience.

Although, without people in the criminal justice system or whatever you wanna call it, we might not have the forensic technology that we have. So that's one benefit???

But if anyone tries any of these things on me, they better have an army. I'll go down like scarface.

Dont forget the laws againt fungi!!! those bastards! fungi isn't a plant right? iono... i ate some a few hours ago!

If cops or military come up to start some crap for no reason. Better have the weapons to fight them or deter them from abusing you. They sure as hell got the weapons to fight you.

It's like a bully who tells you. "we need to protect you, give us all these weapons, you don't need them we are the authority".

Then when your totally defenseless.

"Your breaking the law which I made up. I'm going to use these weapons on you now"

It's about abuse and control. Just everyone wake up and do something.

Originally Posted by Mystic7

If cops or military come up to start some crap for no reason. Better have the weapons to fight them or deter them from abusing you. They sure as hell got the weapons to fight you.

It's like a bully who tells you. "we need to protect you, give us all these weapons, you don't need them we are the authority".

Then when your totally defenseless.

"Your breaking the law which I made up. I'm going to use these weapons on you now"

It's about abuse and control. Just everyone wake up and do something.

I know the military would obliterate me. I'm talking about murders. I've had a few people try to rob me with guns, and it didn't work. So my confidence is waaay up.

Originally Posted by Mystic7

And yet we do. I wouldn't call it a law. You don't get it. There is no such thing as a law, other than the laws of nature.

We are the law. It's patriotic to think. Take the law into your hands. Don't neglect your responsibility to think. Even if it's illegal to take the law into your own hands. That's a trick ok? It's tricking you.......Get more smart.

If you don't want to murder someone. Don't do it....If you are scared of others. Protect yourself. See this is thinking about life now....Something you have not done for a while yeah? Laws of nature are real.

Do you call that an answer? It looks more like a 13 year old having a temper tantrum because he got caught sneaking out of his room to use the computer.

Originally Posted by Michael

UM, I don't mind those things being laws. But I don't like the cop system and things like that. I think we as a people should take law into out own hands and deal with criminals how we want to. If someone gets murdered, we murder them. If someone gets raped.... we kill the rapist... Laws are good, cops, FBI, DEA, etc. are BAD! Especially the DEA, I hate them from personal experience.

Although, without people in the criminal justice system or whatever you wanna call it, we might not have the forensic technology that we have. So that's one benefit???

But if anyone tries any of these things on me, they better have an army. I'll go down like scarface.

Then who will make sure that murderers get murdered (etc.)? Who will have the ability to even catch them without forensics experts? How we will know if they are guilty? Most people are not even equipped to act like vigilantes, and it is a big inconvenience having to do it. I think a vigilante system would be ineffective and a big clusterfuck.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Do you call that an answer? It looks more like a 13 year old having a temper tantrum because he got caught sneaking out of his room to use the computer.



Then who will make sure that murderers get murdered (etc.)? Who will have the ability to even catch them without forensics experts? How we will know if they are guilty? I think a vigilante system would be ineffective and a big clusterfuck.

Yea, that's why I said forensics is one good thing about it. But besides that, they find out who the murderer is most of the time because family and friends care enough and know what's been going on, and I would be more than happy to kill a few murderers.

I agree it would be a clusterfuck, and I have nothing against these laws, because if you get caught, you deserved it. I admit I've done other illegal things besides drugs but never got caught and I feel like if I did get caught, my life would be ruined more than it is just from gettin caught with drugs. The criminal system is a bitch and they make it damn near impossible to get out of. That's why I hate it.

Then who will make sure that murderers get murdered (etc.)? Who will have the ability to even catch them without forensics experts? How we will know if they are guilty?

People who will deal with the murderers are you, me, and everyone else. Or are you too chicken to make things right? Forensic experts are not going to be inhibited. They will be even more free to do their job properly for once.

If you allow one silly law to be made for everyone. You open everyone up to more abuse. Look at the world and realize it can't get much worse anyway. So forget the idea that things would screw up. Things are already screwed up and this would be a step forward not back. It would destroy one major tool of control. And that's worth something.

Individual freedom comes first.

Originally Posted by Mystic7

People who will deal with the murderers are you, me, and everyone else. Or are you too chicken to make things right? Forensic experts are not going to be inhibited. They will be even more free to do their job properly for once.

Am I too chicken? Good God. Would you like to play with my Star Wars figures? I will blow a murderer's head off in a second if I don't have to face the law for it. (Case in point of the ineffectiveness of a vigilante system.) However, most people are too chicken to handle things that way. And like I said, it would be is a huge inconvenience for the average citizen. And who makes sure the forensics experts are correct and not just making shit up for money? At some point, people need to be accountable to large bodies connected to elected officials who fear losing the next election. What you are pushing for would be far more chaotic than our wild West.

Originally Posted by Mystic7

If you allow one silly law to be made for everyone. You open everyone up to more abuse. Look at the world and realize it can't get much worse anyway. So forget the idea that things would screw up. Things are already screwed up and this would be a step forward not back. It would destroy one major tool of control. And that's worth something.

The fact that things are screwed up does not mean they cannot be much more screwed up. They have been here in the past, and they presently are in many countries.

Originally Posted by Mystic7

Individual freedom comes first.

I am all for that, but I am against legal victimization. We have to have a system for dealing with victimization, and it has to be one that is subject to organized, large scale scrutiny. The little gangs of vigilantes have no hope of comparing to the effectiveness of governments in terms of correctly capturing, proving guilt, and punishing in an answerable manner.

What you are supporting is anarchy, in the literal sense of the word. Another huge problem with anarchy is that governments inevitably rise up when there are no governments or laws to stop them. The ones who are the most powerful and ruthless are the ones that prevail. It has happened all throughout history, and it has happened in recent years in Afghanistan. Anarchy is a disaster and something that cannot even last. Anarchy provides its own destruction through the inevitable empowerment of the most ruthless of governments. It's an absolute disaster.

I'm mainly just a pissed off american who got into trouble for having weed. And then they pinned me for manufacturing and distributing and the judge believe them. So, that's why I hate the system. Plus, since I have money, I have to pay a shitload for rehab, money for just being on probation, drug tests, court fees, all sorts of BS.

When the poor ass real criminals get off free of charge...

I said yall are fuckin up my life (after I got my punishment of course) and guess what they said? No... you fucked it up from smoking pot and selling it! hahaha.. I didn't even sell it.

That's why I hate the entire system.

Can't live with it, can't live without it.

Originally Posted by universal mind

We have to have a system for dealing with victimization, and it has to be one that is subject to organized, large scale scrutiny. The little gangs of vigilantes have no hope of comparing to the effectiveness of governments in terms of correctly capturing, proving guilt, and punishing in an answerable manner.

That isn't the system you have now. And what about responsibility? That's a good system. I don't need people to govern me. The government is not effective at all. Hasn't done anything for me or anyone. It's held everyone back. It's the main problem causing all this. This is what I mean by the term waking up to reality. Speak from experience not from the television.

History is just one big boot on the face of humanity. Why do you think this age is any different with it's governments? Stand up for freedom.

What you are supporting is anarchy, in the literal sense of the word. Another huge problem with anarchy is that governments inevitably rise up when there are no governments or laws to stop them.

Governments rise up when people are apathetic uneducated, selfish and foolish enough to be abused by them.

The ones who are the most powerful and ruthless are the ones that prevail.

The most powerful is the most loving. But ruthless acts never prevail. Exploiters tumble down a rabbit hole of increasing pain. For every damaging act they do. And the wrath of those abused comes back to haunt them.

It has happened all throughout history, and it has happened in recent years in Afghanistan. Anarchy is a disaster and something that cannot even last. Anarchy provides its own destruction through the inevitable empowerment of the most ruthless of governments. It's an absolute disaster.

Anarchy is already happening. It's already started. Something else that is better is coming into view from destruction of the old. There has always being changes. This discussion is part of moving forward.

Originally Posted by Michael

I'm mainly just a pissed off american who got into trouble for having weed. And then they pinned me for manufacturing and distributing and the judge believe them. So, that's why I hate the system. Plus, since I have money, I have to pay a shitload for rehab, money for just being on probation, drug tests, court fees, all sorts of BS.

When the poor ass real criminals get off free of charge...

I said yall are fuckin up my life (after I got my punishment of course) and guess what they said? No... you fucked it up from smoking pot and selling it! hahaha.. I didn't even sell it.

That's why I hate the entire system.

Can't live with it, can't live without it.

That really sucks, and it pisses me off that it happened. That is the war on drugs, not law itself. The war on drugs makes my blood boil every time I talk about it. It is so fucking irrational and evil, yet so accepted. I am completely convinced that it is going to go down in history as one of the most illogical and atrocious policies the United States government ever had. It will be looked at the way we look at the Salem Witch Trials now. It is so outrageous and full of so many unbelievable injustices I don't even know where to start with them. And to top it all off, the sons of bitches fighting the war on drugs celebrate big drug busts and expansion legislation by drinking alcohol together. My jaw is on the floor over how insane the whole thing is.

Originally Posted by Mystic7

And what about responsibility? That's a good system.

That sounds nice. How do you make sure society is responsible? Just leave it up to them and do a luck dance?

Study history. When there is no central government, lots of ruthless governments rise up. The most powerful of those becomes the central government.

We have laws right now. I can promise you that.

I think the way our founding fathers tried to set up the country, had it perfect. But it slowely turned into a goverment ruling the people type thing, instead of the people ruling the government. This, I think is the main problem.

Originally Posted by Michael

I think the way our founding fathers tried to set up the country, had it perfect. But it slowely turned into a goverment ruling the people type thing, instead of the people ruling the government. This, I think is the main problem.

One thing the war on drugs has done is destroy some of the original principles of our government. If you are in a car, you really have no 4th Amendment protection any more. A cop can pull you over for supposedly swerving or driving too closely to another car or throwing a wrapper out the window or whatever he feels like making up. It's his word against yours. If he thinks you like like a pot smoker, he can falsely claim he smells pot and then search your car. If he finds none, he can just let you go and never face any consequences since there was no arrest. If he finds pot, or anything else at that point, he can just say he obviously had a good reason to search because, "Well, I found it, didn't I? It was there, just like I knew." Originally, and according to the Constitution even now, a cop cannot search anthing without probable cause plus a warrant. The federal courts have dumbed that down in the cases of cars, and now warrants are not even required for car searches because of some stupid gun case and and a case about evidence that could have gotten away since cars can move, and the search criterion is now "reasonable suspicion", which is a lower standard than "probable cause". For people in cars, there is no 4th Amendment. The war on drugs is a disease, and it has to go.

The founding fathers were totally genius. Much more smarter than I'll ever be in this lifetime. They did the best they could. And everyone should know the constitution and bill of rights. Not only should they know it. But they should do something to protect it. It's slipping away in front of your eyes. What is happening is exactly what they feared. It is more serious than you think. If you have never resisted, you don't know how tyrannical things are. Until you get arrested for your free speech when you know the truth.

Government should be afraid of the people if it exists. And not the other way around.

Michael, I had my car searched at Pensacola Beach a few years ago. I was at the public beach with two friends. One of my friends sat in the car because he didn't want to get more sun burned and because he wasn't in the mood for the beach, so he said. I and the other one went to the beach and hung out for about an hour. Then my friend went back to the car to check on the other one. About thirty minutes later, I headed back to my car. When I got near it, I saw my friends being questioned by two deputies. So I just tried to act like I didnt' know them and kept walking. One of my friends pointed at me and said, "There he is." He supposedly thought I could get them out of the situation and that they were going nowhere until the owner of the car showed up. One of the deputies said, "Is this your car?" I said it was. He said that my friend had been sitting in my car for a really long time and that that is "not normal behavior". He told me that people had been doing that as a method of scoping out the parking lot and stealing stuff out of cars. He asked if he could search my car. (This is another area where the Fourth Amendment is worth about as much as a dead slug now.) I knew that saying they could search my car would take away any possible claim of unlawful search, and I also was worried that if I said they couldn't that I would really piss them off and be taking a chance on having something planted. I looked at my friends to see if they knew of anything illegal in there because I didn't know of anything. They didn't give me the look that says that's a bad idea, so I told the deputies they could search. (Obviously there is no such thing as a consentual search.)

The pricks found absolutely nothing and let us go. I think they were looking for drugs and using that theft stuff as an excuse. I was wigged the Hell out for a little while because I really didn't know what my friends had in my car. They were both addicts who were really secretive about their addictions, and I didn't trust them to tell the truth if anything was found. They would have denied the Hell out of any accusation that the drugs were theirs, and I knew that. Apparently, they were out of drugs, and I think that's why they were such weenies about the beach. They wanted to get back to Jackson to buy more drugs. All of those possibilities were flashing through my head when my car was being searched, and it was freaky as Hell. I hadn't broken a single damn law and didn't even do anything to sufficiently look like I had, but I had to be put through that shit any way. I was infuriated the whole way back to Jackson. I am still pissed off about it talking about it now.

Universal what happened to you. That is just wrong. You don't need to put up with that just because they think they are policing. I don't believe in this kind of authority holding people back. We should all just have a gun and means to defeat their authority and they should be scared of us. We are the ones that should have the ability to enforce punishment from disrespectful acts like this. The fact you had to go along with that crap indicates they are not respectful because they know they can get away with it looking for profit. They don't even think anything of you they just treat you as an enemy as use law best they can as a game to exploit you.

How soon we forget history. Government is not reason. Government is not eloquence. It is force.

Originally Posted by Mystic7

How soon we forget history. Government is not reason. Government is not eloquence. It is force.

What type of system should we put in place to maintain a state of anarchy?

Originally Posted by universal mind

Originally Posted by Mystic

How soon we forget history. Government is not reason. Government is not eloquence. It is force.

What type of system should we put in place to maintain a state of anarchy?

Um, Do you even know who said what I quoted here.