Thread: 9/11 Truth

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

I am through arguing about whether 9/11 was an inside job, but I want to mention something interesting that surprised me. I just saw Ron Paul on Glenn Beck's show, and Glenn asked Ron about the 9/11 conspiracy claims. He asked Ron what he thinks about the idea that it was actually a missile fired by the U.S. government that hit the Pentagon. Ron had a funny look on his face and said, "Preposterous." Then Glenn asked him what he thinks about the claim that the airplanes that hit the World Trade Center were remotely controlled. Ron said that too is ridiculous and said such questions are so stupid he shouldn't even have to answer them. He also said he had not heard those claims before. I was kind of shocked by that because every Ron Paul supporter I have come across believes in the 9/11 conspiracy, and every 9/11 conspiracist I have come across has been a Ron Paul supporter.

EDIT: It turns out that the show was a rerun, so the video is already on Youtube. Here it is.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=JQUwlxReJ8E

For the record: Not everyone that believes (or even states the case that) 9/11 was an inside job believes the Pentagon was hit by a missile and the planes that hit the towers were remote controlled. Also, I know (personally) plenty of Ron Paul supporters that don't think 9/11 was an inside job. I've even had some pretty heated debates with them about it even being a possibility.

Not trying to start a debate. Just sayin'.

Originally Posted by Oneironaut

For the record: Not everyone that believes (or even states the case that) 9/11 was an inside job believes the Pentagon was hit by a missile and the planes that hit the towers were remote controlled. Also, I know (personally) plenty of Ron Paul supporters that don't think 9/11 was an inside job. I've even had some pretty heated debates with them about it even being a possibility.

Not trying to start a debate. Just sayin'.

I'm sure they exist, but I have not come across them yet.

I think Ron Paul's view on 9/11 is that Al Qaeda did it because we pissed them off. He has never expressed support for any kind of inside job claim, as far as I know.

As far as I'm concerned, I'm just not sure what exactly happened. Certain things have not been answered for, but if anything, the truth might have been skewed somewhat. After reading all these different things on the net, and then applying a more critical mind on everything else, it just seems to me that a few pieces of the 9/11 puzzle are missing (some quite critical pieces too), which have then perpetuated all these conspiracies.

But there is one thing I completely am against on the whole 9/11 issue, and that is how 9/11 was exploited by the US Government to manipulate the public into condoning wars in Afghanistan and Iraq. To use such a tragedy to spur on further tragedies for one's personal gain is simply disgusting. There were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, and now it is simply chaos. And only now have the public began to sway it's opinion on the war. To me, that is the real tragedy of 9/11.

bluefinger you may remember the report that cheney and crazies wrote about how they needed a new pearl habour to initiate the required change? Well that is 911 duh.

Wikipedia tells us the attack on Pearl Harbor was a preventive attack on the United States Pacific Fleet base at Pearl Harbor, Hawaii by the Empire of Japan's Imperial Japanese Navy, on the morning of Sunday, December 7, 1941 resulting in the United States becoming involved in World War II.

So what has happened as they have created and funded the enemy then let them attack so they can create war. Because people are lazy and can't govern themself. So this is part of their punishment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzX8lLV94S4

Originally Posted by Mystic7

bluefinger you may remember the report that cheney and crazies wrote about how they needed a new pearl habour to initiate the required change? Well that is 911 duh.

Wikipedia tells us the attack on Pearl Harbor was a preventive attack on the United States Pacific Fleet base at Pearl Harbor, Hawaii by the Empire of Japan's Imperial Japanese Navy, on the morning of Sunday, December 7, 1941 resulting in the United States becoming involved in World War II.

So what has happened as they have created and funded the enemy then let them attack so they can create war. Because people are lazy and can't govern themself. So this is part of their punishment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzX8lLV94S4

That is not completely implausible, but what makes you so sure it is the case?

What do you think is Usama Bin Laden's role in all of it? Did he have anything to do with the attacks?

Originally Posted by Mystic7

bluefinger you may remember the report that cheney and crazies wrote about how they needed a new pearl habour to initiate the required change? Well that is 911 duh.

Wikipedia tells us the attack on Pearl Harbor was a preventive attack on the United States Pacific Fleet base at Pearl Harbor, Hawaii by the Empire of Japan's Imperial Japanese Navy, on the morning of Sunday, December 7, 1941 resulting in the United States becoming involved in World War II.

So what has happened as they have created and funded the enemy then let them attack so they can create war. Because people are lazy and can't govern themself. So this is part of their punishment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzX8lLV94S4

I've heard that argument, but again, how do we really know that is the case? People say a lot of things, but with all this conspiracy stuff, it just leaves me with a bad taste. I mean, yeah, it is plausible that the US government allowed a bunch of terrorists to wreak havoc, just so they could initiate a war to further their own business interests. In reality, the Bin Laden family aren't a bunch of extremist terrorists, they're businessmen, I know that, and it's not hard to find that out. However, where is the solid evidence to point out that 9/11 was a false flag operation? There are plenty of inconsistencies with all the explanations given, yes, but nothing solidly proves that the US government did the attacks themselves. If anything, I'd rather focus on getting these inconsistencies cleared up and seeing the truth behind what happened, rather than speculate on these conspiracies.

So, what do we have? A story with loads of holes in it. Great. Now, in respect to all these conspiracies, I will quote Nietzsche here as I think it's appropriate:

Convictions are more dangerous enemies of truth than lies.

In other words, in the quest for the truth, one must not be led by convictions. There may be a lot of reasons behind why and how 9/11 happened, however, you can't get carried away thinking the US government was behind everything before the truth behind 9/11 is found out. Who knows, the reality may be even more warped and strange than that...

I've heard that argument, but again, how do we really know that is the case?

It's not an 'argument' I was refering to official government and military documents. Go read them.....

If anything, I'd rather focus on getting these inconsistencies cleared up and seeing the truth behind what happened

This statement would be ok except you are not educated enough to understand what inconsistencies are present in the first place. Please read the information at the start of the thread to find out more. You look foolish trying to conclude and argue with what you don't know about. It was not clever of you it was dumb.

Originally Posted by Mystic7

This statement would be ok except you are not educated enough to understand what inconsistencies are present in the first place. Please read the information at the start of the thread to find out more. You look foolish trying to conclude and argue with what you don't know about. It was not clever of you it was dumb.

And now, this is becoming more flaming than a civil discussion. I understand all of the inconsistencies pointing that something more than what was explained by the government occurred, including the 'omission' of a detailed explanation of the WTC 7 collapse.

Now, out of all the things which happened on 9/11, the only thing which stinks of government involvement was the failure of NORAD in intercepting the hijacked flights. However, even with that, it is still hard to prove directly that the government is responsible.

I've seen Zeitgeist the movie, I've read up on some of the sources quoted on the site, but after all that, I still concluded that it is hard to definitively nail the blame on the US government. However, isn't it the point of the movie to encourage people to make up their own minds on the issues presented rather than blindly accept them as reality? In fact, the whole idea of a complete inside job has enough holes in it that to be honest, it's just not worth considering unless there is concrete evidence pointing to it. It is more likely the US government knew about the attacks, but did nothing and let it happen so to further their own aims and justify a 'War On Terror'. Personally, I just don't think an administration (Bush), who had only been in power for about a year, could spin up and prepare this scenario without nobody knowing or suspecting foul-play beforehand. It is very unlikely that it would the case.

Now, that is what I think. I've always been very critical of the Bush administration on many issues, but I just don't think they are capable enough to pull off such a risky operation. Look how 'capable' they were with Katrina, and the aftermath of Iraq and Afghanistan. So please, let's keep this civil and not label each other as dumb and foolish.

Originally Posted by Bluefinger

I still concluded that it is hard to definitively nail the blame on the US government

If you've done so much investigation MR "I am civil and politically correct". Why do you still not understand that no-one is trying to blame the entire US government for anything. The people responsible may hold positions anywhere, the military. The government. The CIA. Anywhere. You do not understand the system. Why are you arguing?

Originally Posted by Mystic7

If you've done so much investigation MR "I am civil and politically correct". Why do you still not understand that no-one is trying to blame the entire US government for anything. The people responsible may hold positions anywhere, the military. The government. The CIA. Anywhere. You do not understand the system. Why are you arguing?

Excuse me, but if only a small group of people were in this whole conspiracy, how the hell were they able to pull off such a elaborate stunt just to convince the public into going to war? Logistics! If you have something happen like you are trying to describe, it would require a huge amount of cooperation between the different organisations, and a lot of time to pull it off. And the more people that become involved, the harder it becomes to keep every single one quiet. So, if it was a complete inside job, then one would have to accept the fact it wasn't just a handful of people organising the whole thing, but maybe thousands of people. Plus, acknowledging that fact would mean accepting that our society is becoming increasingly dystopian.

It is more likely that key members of the US government in key positions used their influence in order to simply let the attacks happen in order to further their own interests. And maybe even give a little helping hand here and there. It is a lot easier to execute and cover-up something like that. But! For the whole thing to be conveniently conjured by a group of people within key institutions within the US, it is very unlikely that that is the case.

Now, until you can put down definitive proof that says that the government and whatever institutions pulled off 9/11 as a false flag operation, then I have no reason to shift my opinion on the matter. So I think I'll continue to be Mr "Civil and Politically Correct" for a while now

Now, until you can put down definitive proof that says that the government and whatever institutions pulled off 9/11 as a false flag operation, then I have no reason to shift my opinion on the matter. So I think I'll continue to be Mr "Civil and Politically Correct" for a while now

Didn't you read the first time I'm not trying to prove that the entire government pulled it all off together. That's your insane slow witted crack at discrediting the fact that religious nuts don't overide americas security and hit 2 towers and hit the pentagon, all with nothing more than boxcutters. While the 2 towers explode from a controlled demolition, (they can't fall over by themself we know this, building 7 can't either). Yet you maintain that you have every reason to be a stubborn bucket of Feces.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqiyAOyxPd0

Originally Posted by Mystic7

Didn't you read the first time I'm not trying to prove that the entire government pulled it all off together. That's your insane slow witted crack at discrediting the fact that religious nuts don't overide americas security and hit 2 towers and hit the pentagon, all with nothing more than boxcutters. While the 2 towers explode from a controlled demolition, (they can't fall over by themself we know this, building 7 can't either). Yet you maintain that you have every reason to be a stubborn bucket of Feces.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqiyAOyxPd0

Ahh, the building 7 collapse is a good example of something that doesn't seem right with the whole current 9/11 explanation. It is obvious it was a controlled demolition, but so far, there's no evidence pointing out it was government involvement or otherwise. And please, keep this civil and cease the 'flak', otherwise you come across as nothing but another stubborn flamer. Let me explain to you why I'm saying this... I'm being skeptical. Why? Because I just don't want to accept any explanation, official or not, until it can confidently close up all the inherent holes with current understanding of what happened in 9/11. This is called critical thinking, something that should be encouraged amongst the general populace. All I see with your speculation is just that... it's just speculation and nothing really definitive and concrete, whilst the government's official explanation is just worthless because it's full of holes and obviously a thinly veiled form of propaganda. Now, as far as what happened, I will take everything with a pinch of salt and make up my own mind on the matter, and that's not something you and anyone else has any right to deny that. Freedom of Speech and all that. Now, as for speculation, it makes for great discussion and debate, the latter requiring people to argue two or more sides of a case or topic, otherwise it's not really a debate now, is it? So until you learn to deal with people who are obviously going to be the skeptics in a discussion, then there's not much point in trying to even discuss the issue with you.

Originally Posted by bluefinger

there's no evidence pointing out it was government involvement or otherwise

Are you dense? I already told you 3 times now that it was not the entire government involved but hidden criminal elements within a sophisticated oppressive system that you are ignorant of.

Originally Posted by Mystic7

Are you dense? I already told you 3 times now that it was not the entire government involved but hidden criminal elements within a sophisticated oppressive system that you are ignorant of.

I'm sorry, but I simply fail to see how you consider me to be dense after reading your reply.

Let me make myself clear. I don't not know what to think of 9/11. Shit happens, and yet that occurance of faeces happened to perpetuate a variety of conflicts, of which have effectively ruined countries and economies. I'm not happy about it, and it doesn't take a genius to figure out something was off on the whole thing. But even so, I'm sceptical of all these bits of 'supposed' evidence, and even of the government explanations. Why? Well... why not? Why can't I be sceptical? As soon as you bring up "hidden criminal elements with a sophisticated oppressive system", I'm immediately thinking "someone's read a few too many dystopian novels". I mean... come on, if you are trying to make something stick, at least make it plausible. As for the government, I would like to see certain things explained in detail, rather than just have the whole "War On Terror" crap hypnotically repeated throughout the media.

So... what's next? I'll agree to disagree with you on the 9/11 'myth', as I grow weary of this conversation. I respect your perspective on the matter, but I feel there's just too many if's and maybes in order for it to really be the 'truth'. I feel that what ever the case, 9/11 was still exploited in a disgusting way, so to manipulate public opinion into allowing completely illegal wars to take place. I am totally against the idea of soldiers, who risk their lives in order to do their job, are being put into an unnecessary conflict, just to further the political and corporate ambitions of corrupt politicians.

Bluefinger. You might be suprised how little your opinion counts in reality. For that you have my full compassion. True that we should not be at war. That's one thing you have correct. But you are a few tweaks away from a healthy lucid understanding of society.

Originally Posted by Mystic7

Bluefinger. You might be suprised how little your opinion counts in reality. For that you have my full compassion. True that we should not be at war. That's one thing you have correct. But you are a few tweaks away from a healthy lucid understanding of society.

I think my understanding of society is just fine at this point in time. As for my opinion, whether it counts or not, I couldn't really give a damn, since as long as I have an opinion to call my own, that's all that matters.

I just remembered that one collage you made that had Mystic Quest in it. That made me laugh.

So what you just wrote is that your understanding on society needs no improvement as it is 'fine'. Wether your opinion counts does not concern you. Only that you have an opinion which you can call yours. However little it may count to others either wiser or not than yourself.

Since your understanding is fine. You must have no problems. Since you have an opinion of your own. You must know what to think about 911. But you state that you don't know what to think about 911.

Originally Posted by Bluefinger

I don't not know what to think of 9/11

How can this be?

In addition...

Originally Posted by Bluefinger

I am totally against the idea of soldiers, who risk their lives in order to do their job, are being put into an unnecessary conflict, just to further the political and corporate ambitions of corrupt politicians

Since your understanding of society is fine. You must understand why this has happened and how we should solve it. I look forward to your idea of a solution in your next response.

Originally Posted by mark75

I just remembered that one collage you made that had Mystic Quest in it. That made me laugh.

What makes me laugh is that you do not understand the full significance of it. Neither do I.

True or False?
Fork is to Cereal as Mystic7 is to ___________.

True or False?
Fork is to Cereal as Mystic7 is to ___________.

The spear of destiny.

The correct response was "What is rationality?"

No, the correct response was the spear of destiny.

Get off of my game show.