Thread: Evolution is a Fact - Not a Theory

Say something Mystic7.

Originally Posted by O'nus

So, you are saying:
- evolution is wrong because of the scientists doing the work
- but science is right
- since science can't prove everything, it is wrong
- religious people are morons

I love how you capture little bits of writing and re-make statements to try to put together like a puzzle your model of why I'm an idiot who doesn't know anything, utilizing what you consider my contradictory belief system, which is only as good as the belief system of the person interpreting it.

Originally Posted by O'nus

So, now that we have a few contradictions, what are you saying that we ought to believe?

Why would you require me to tell you what to believe?

You have yet again dodged asserting your beliefs or any support.

Your interpretation is what dodged it.

Originally Posted by O'nus

Any person can stand on top of a mountain and cast judgment down on people.

It's madness isn't it. You are doing it right now. Stop fighting what you don't understand.

Originally Posted by Jeff777

Say something Mystic7.

Your the king of dreamviews.

Originally Posted by Mystic7

It's madness isn't it. You are doing it right now. Stop fighting what you don't understand.

And what of Polizzly?

Originally Posted by Mystic7

It's madness isn't it. You are doing it right now. Stop fighting what you don't understand.

Mystic, if you are trying to make a point, it's not wise to say that.

It's very ignorant for you to say, "Stop fighting what you don't understand."

May I suggest, if you think he doesn't understand, tell him. Why don't you fully answer his questions? You're defending your theory very poorly.

I hope you understand what I mean.

See O'nus. Everyone does it. Even Polizzly.

Originally Posted by Mystic7

I'm an idiot who doesn't know anything.

Well done moonbeam you created your own reality and it's true because we can see it.

Originally Posted by Mystic7

Well done moonbeam you created your own reality and it's true because we can see it.

You have left us with no choice but to ridicule you.

i think anyone who believes in evolution deserves to come from monkeys

Originally Posted by Xox

Why don't you fully answer his questions? You're defending your theory very poorly.

I have been trying for years to come up with a strong single shotgun blast comment to make when people relentlessly dodge my questions in debates. You just gave me one. I am going to use that every time I come across a dodgeball player in a debate. It gets right to the point. The one I have used for years has been, "You would be answering that question if you had a good answer." I think yours makes a more important point.

Originally Posted by Oneria

i think anyone who believes in evolution deserves to come from monkeys

And I think those who refuse to inform themselves of a scientifically validated fact are indistinguishable monkeys. Oh, hahaha! Look how witty that was!

Seriously, add something meaningful, or don't bother.

Originally Posted by Oneria

i think anyone who believes in evolution deserves to come from monkeys

I have a challenge for you. Explain in two paragraphs or more the theory of evolution in a genuine manner. Mystic could not do it, so let's see if you can. Do the best you can to give a true summary of the theory of evolution. I am very curious to read what you think it says. Something tells me that you would have no Earthly idea what to write or else would say things that are just flat out false. Let's see what you can do with it.

After you do that, tell us specifically where your disagreements with it are. I bet you can't do that either. Saying that people deserve punishment for believing in evolution and that the punishment should be that their ancestors are monkeys does not qualify as a debate point.

Evolution is simple
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1GhYGEoRfo

Originally Posted by Korittke

Evolution is simple
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1GhYGEoRfo

That is one of my favorite South Park episodes. Mr. Garrison's understanding of the theory of evolution is really not that different from what most creationists think it says. I bet Mystic and Oneira think what Mr. Garrison said is not that far from what the theory actually does say. If they ever have the nerve to tell us what they think the theory says, I bet they sound a lot like Garrison.

Even though I beleive in it, evolution is still a theory and people shouldn't be considerting it completely factual. There are still complex things in ourselves and our minds in particular that evolution cannot explain.

Originally Posted by Idolfan

Even though I beleive in it, evolution is still a theory and people shouldn't be considerting it completely factual. There are still complex things in ourselves and our minds in particular that evolution cannot explain.

The existence of atoms is a theory. The existence of black holes is a theory. The explanation for continental drift is a theory. The explanation for why volcanoes erupt is a theory. The idea that the position of the moon affects the tides is a theory. "Theory" is not synonymous with "opinion somebody pulled out of his ass". It takes a great deal of evidence for something to become a well documented scientific theory.

"Creationists make it sound as though a 'theory' is something you dreamt up after being drunk all night." - Isaac Asimov

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

I have a challenge for you. Explain in two paragraphs or more the theory of evolution in a genuine manner. Mystic could not do it, so let's see if you can. Do the best you can to give a true summary of the theory of evolution. I am very curious to read what you think it says.

To be fair, could you give a similar summary of a sincere, thoughtful religious person's outlook? I've found the disconnect runs both ways.

Even though I beleive in it, evolution is still a theory and people shouldn't be considerting it completely factual. There are still complex things in ourselves and our minds in particular that evolution cannot explain.

The laws of physics are ultimately theories at the end of the day. Somehow I don't imagine you'll stop getting on planes because our understanding of the physics that keeps them airborne is 'just a theory'

And what things can evolution not explain? That's a very bold claim.

Originally Posted by Idolfan

Even though I beleive in it, evolution is still a theory and people shouldn't be considerting it completely factual. There are still complex things in ourselves and our minds in particular that evolution cannot explain.

We've come full circle in this thread. Evolution, which is genetic change over time, is a fact, and the overwhelmingly agreed upon theory used to explain it is natural selection.

There is nothing within ourselves that we have identified that evolution cannot explain.

Natural selection is not evolution. It allows adaptation to the environment though selective reproduction of the traits available to any particular species, but does not explain how one species makes the change into a completely different species. The missing links remain missing, and the theory of evolution remains a theory.

Yes, we share DNA with other species of animals, but DNA is simply the basic building blocks of life. Atoms are the building blocks of DNA. We are carbon based life forms. Does that mean we evolved from lumps of coal?

Originally Posted by Idolfan

Even though I beleive in it, evolution is still a theory and people shouldn't be considerting it completely factual. There are still complex things in ourselves and our minds in particular that evolution cannot explain.

In a way you are correct, evolution is a theory but then so is gravity and the earth orbiting the sun and plate tectonics.....I could go on and on but the point is this:

Just because something is stated as a theory does not make it any less true. There are huge amounts of evidence supporting these theories. I think they are still called "Theory" for a few reasons 1) there is more to learn and 2) it is hard to reproduce in a lab due to limitations but the models and understanding of these concepts fit very well to the evidence found in nature.

Stating things as a theory is a very poor attack on a idea and I would suggest providing evidence against it if that is what you intend to do

Originally Posted by The Cusp

Natural selection is not evolution. It allows adaptation to the environment though selective reproduction of the traits available to any particular species, but does not explain how one species makes the change into a completely different species. The missing links remain missing, and the theory of evolution remains a theory.

Well it is a good point you make but natural selection is one of the core principles behind evolution. As far as I know (and I may be wrong here I am not a biologist or anything) changes in species occur when they become isolated from the remainder of the species due to geographical environments or constraints and continue to change until the 2 species become genetically incompatible. But like I say im no expert lol

Originally Posted by The Cusp

Yes, we share DNA with other species of animals, but DNA is simply the basic building blocks of life. Atoms are the building blocks of DNA. We are carbon based life forms. Does that mean we evolved from lumps of coal?

In a way that is true saying as we are the remnant of "star dust".

Originally Posted by The Cusp

Natural selection is not evolution. It allows adaptation to the environment though selective reproduction of the traits available to any particular species, but does not explain how one species makes the change into a completely different species. The missing links remain missing, and the theory of evolution remains a theory.

Evolution is genetic change over time. Natural selection determines which animals live and reproduce. This is the way that genes either multiply or die out. "Species" is a vague definition created by humans for convenience in classifying animals. There is nothing magic about "speciation". When isolated groups of animals diverge enough genetically that they can no longer reproduce, we can use that as a definition of species. Very simple, nothing that can't be explained there. Missing links are only gaps in the fossil record, which is incomplete for obvious reasons. Lots of "links" that seemed to be "missing" are found all the time; for example, the gaps in the line between dinosaurs and birds have been massively filled in--there are many other species in between now, not just archaeopteryx.

Originally Posted by The Cusp

Yes, we share DNA with other species of animals, but DNA is simply the basic building blocks of life. Atoms are the building blocks of DNA. We are carbon based life forms. Does that mean we evolved from lumps of coal?

Umm, no...I'm pretty sure the "coal theory" of the origin of life is pretty original with you. As is the related "diamond theory".

Originally Posted by mark

In a way that is true saying as we are the remnant of "star dust".

That's a cool way of looking at that...

Originally Posted by Taosaur

To be fair, could you give a similar summary of a sincere, thoughtful religious person's outlook? I've found the disconnect runs both ways.

Of course I can do that. I used to be a Christian, and I have studied Eastern religion a great deal. Search my posts in the R/S forum and you will see that I don't make ignorant comments about religious teachings. I try to make sure I know what I am talking about when I debate people. What does it have to do with whether Oneira and Mystic understand the subject of this thread? I don't think Oneira and Mystic are able to give a substantially detailed explanation of what the theory of evolution says, yet they make insulting comments toward those who believe in it. What does my ability to say what a religious belief system involves have to do with whether or not they know what they are talking about?

A litle more than six thousand years ago, God existed without the world. He decided to create the world. He did so in six days and then rested on the seventh. In the world he created, he created a man named Adam by blowing clay. Soon afterwards, a woman named Eve came into existence from one of Adam's ribs. They were the first man and woman. Later, a fallen angel named Satan showed up in Adam and Eve's Garden of Eden and tempted Adam to eat a fruit from the tree of knowledge, something God said specifically not to do. Adam ate the fruit any way. As a result, Adam and Eve were no longer naked and sin existed in the world. It has been with humans ever since. However, the sin that resulted from eating the fruit is necessary for the existence of free will. Because of free will and sin, God later spoke to a prophet named Moses. God was in the form of a burning bush. He instructed Moses on his ten big rules for humans to follow in using their free will in order to avoid sin. For a long time, God's rule was that people who use their free will to violate those laws or his other ones do not get into Heaven, and the only other place to go after death is Satan's Hell, a terrible place most commonly believed by Christians to be a place of eternal torture by burning in a fire.

After 4,000 years of Earth's existence, God decided to change the rules on getting into Heaven. He wanted to give people a chance to get into Heaven even if they sin, so he came to Earth in the form of his son and had himself tortured to "death" and resurrected so that people could believe that story and accept God in the form of his son Jesus as their savior from the punishment for sin. That allowed him to change his rule. Jesus is going to come back to Earth in the future and round up those who are allowed to go to Heaven. Many other things happen soon after. The world will end, and Satan and the people not allowed into Heaven will spend eternity in a lake of fire while those in Heaven experience bliss for eternity.

There you go. In case you were asking for their perspective on why only creationism makes sense, the argument is that something cannot come from nothing and that if God did not exist, something would have had to have come from nothing. They also believe that the universe is so fascinating, complicated, complex, and impressive that only something with intelligence could have created it. In case you were asking what the creationist perspective is on why evolution does not make sense, I can only tell you the few arguments I have heard for it. I have never heard one give a solid counterargument to the theory of evolution because every time I hear them try, they give false explanations of what the theory of evolution says. That is why I challenged Mystic and Oneiroa to tell me what it says, and I have a feeling they are not going to do that. Here are some of the arguments I have heard creationists make against evolution.

- Monkeys do not give birth to humans now, so why should we believe that they did at one time? (false premise concerning the theory of evolution)

- If humans came from gorillas, then why don't we have hispanic gorillas, Chinese gorillas, Eskimo gorillas, and Indian gorillas? (false premise concerning the theory of evolution)

- If animal life can come from non-animal cells, then why don't ants appear in unopened jars of peanut butter? (false premise concerning the theory of evolution)

- Evolution would be too much of a coincidental accident to be real. (false premise concerning the theory of evolution)

- Scientists do not know every single step involved in the evolutionary process, therefore they have no reason to believe they have identified any of the steps. (false premise concerning the nature of scientific knowledge)

- 4.5 billion years is not long enough for protein to evolve into humans. (Until people who claim that can explain the theory of evolution, that false statement cannot be debated with them effectively. It is so substanceless there is very little room for even a short conversation about it.)

Does that work for you?

Even though I beleive in it, evolution is still a theory and people shouldn't be considerting it completely factual.

Wrong. Evolution is an observed fact. Darwin's attempt to explain it is a theory, with ample evidence and as of yet no evidence to the contrary, therefore we can assume that it is true.