Thread: May 2008 (LHC) Particle Accelerator - Miracle or Catastrophe?

Yes, according to Gauss's Law, which is a solution of LaPlace's equation, all massive objects are physically equivalent to a point mass (singularity) placed at their center as seen from outside their radius. So if you put a singularity the mass of the moon in place of the moon, nothing would happen. Of course, it would vey quickly evaporate because it has an event horizon, but ignoring that.

Originally Posted by drewmandan

Dude, that's just flat out, plain wrong. Take a string. Wrap the two ends around your fingers so you have a good grip. With your left hand, pull the string left. With your right hand, pull it right. The string will break if you pull hard enough, you fucking moron.

The black hole pulls all of your atoms in ONE direction, you are pulling both strings in the opposite direction.

EDIT: I have no idea why I replied to this ancient post. It showed up at the top of my page for some mysterious reason.

Originally Posted by Xei

The point he's making is that Hawking radiation occurs faster for smaller black holes. This means that a smallish black hole would decay too quickly to keep existing, even if it had a constant supply of mass to guzzle. Personally I didn't know that Hawking radiation is so fast...

No? Does the gravity of the moon suck up Earth? :\

Isn't hawking radiaton just a hypothesis? It has never actually been seen or measured. Am I right?

Yes.

To play the Devil's advocate: I don't know anything about physics and i know next to nothing about this LHC or particle accelerators in general, and i haven't read the whole thread, but if the theories they are basing this experiment on are unproven, don't we have grounds to be a little concerned? If there were even a grain of chance that a black hole could be created and sustained well enough to swallow us all whole, don't you think there are grounds for concern? I understand there are well-qualified scientists armed with assurances that nothing bad will happen, but our knowledge of matter is far from trustworthy, else this LHC would not have been built. This is especially true if these well qualified-scientists don't actually have any substantial evidence for Hawking Radiation. Aren't the same people in this thread, who demand concrete proof for everything, the same people saying that everything will be fine because a bunch of scientists have a solid theory on what will happen?

Just one more thing i'd like to bring up, just to be pedantic (and i don't know if it has been pointed out yet):

The basic formula is "it's very unlikely BUT it would kill EVERYTHING so that multiplies up the risk", which might sound reasonable, but by the same argument I could say "Nobody eat apples in case one contains a rare virus that could RENDER EVERYONE IN THE WORLD STERILE".

Honestly, if you were given even a shade of a reason to doubt the safety of apples for humankind, would you eat one? Honestly? If you calculated your risk wrong you would effectively be destroying mankind. There is, after all, reason to peoples' objection to this particle accelerator, so there would likewise be reason to doubt the safety of apples. They sure are delicious and healthy though, aren't they?

But, as i say, i'm simply playing Devil's advocate with these questions, which people more knowledgeable than i are welcome to answer. I for one don't really care about whether they flick the switch or not. If they do we will probably have some new and interesting information about our world. If they don't, those discoveries will wait. Life goes on. I don't think the world will end, but then as i pointed out in the first place: i'm ignorant on the matter. I do however see that any doubt from anybody who knows anything about physics is valid. This Wagner fellow may not be Stephen Hawking, but still seems to know one or two things about physics. No great physicist has been without their errors, i'm sure.

You know, i've always wanted to know what it was like to be sucked into a black hole. Maybe i'm in favour of this LHC after all!

(i voted undecided, because i'm not worried either way at this stage)

Well it's kind of ironic that everybody's saying 'silly science, what about black holes??' considering if it weren't for science we wouldn't even have any concept of a black hole in the first place.

But yes there is a certain moral ambiguity I'd say.

When they first tested the a bomb there was a small chance that it could have ignited Earth's atmosphere.

God damnit!!!

http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/science....ap/index.html

Originally Posted by LucidFlanders

God damnit!!!

http://www.cnn.com/2008/TECH/science....ap/index.html

It's gonna happen...It's inevitable!
I bet the administrator ordered the scientists to power up the machine to 110% even though no one knows whether it can tolerate such levels...

Yes, because the people in charge of the largest particle accelerator in the world are going to be laymen administrators that demand MORE POWAH! while bashing their fists on the control panel.

Phew...God saved us, again.

Originally Posted by Alextanium

Yes, because the people in charge of the largest particle accelerator in the world are going to be laymen administrators that demand MORE POWAH! while bashing their fists on the control panel.

Don't take my dreams away with sarcasm...

on a joking note: It's obvious aliens intervened and caused the problem.

This sucks.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8556621.stm

Ah yeah it does LF =/. Buuut, I guess caution beats clumsiness

In my opinion, the LHC is a joke.

Originally Posted by Timothy Paradox

In my opinion, the LHC is a joke.

Because the advancement of physics is so funny, right?

Originally Posted by Timothy Paradox

In my opinion, the LHC is a joke.

Come on man, it's a chance to see how this shit all happened. How is that a joke? i'd prefer to see how we were born, then just wonder about it.

abstruse goose comics are awesome.

Originally Posted by Scatterbrain

Because the advancement of physics is so funny, right?

Why is the advancement of physics a joke? I think it's amazing to discover how it all began, and to explore "reality" we live in even more.
The LHC project is a joke. The damn thing has been shut down for longer than it's been active. Not to mention that it's never even worked on full power.

Don't immediately assume that critisism on the LHC project means I hate physics. Don't make a religion out of it.
To Dajo: good job immediately assuming I'm a religious nut or anti-science conservative/fearmonger. That's not very scientific now, is it?

Don't immediatly assume the LHC is a failure then.

What I said is fact. The LHC has never functioned on full power, and somehow it keeps breaking down before they can even start using it.

actually, it wasn't really directed towards you, I just wanted to post that hilarious comicstrip.

Originally Posted by Timothy Paradox

What I said is fact. The LHC has never functioned on full power, and somehow it keeps breaking down before they can even start using it.

It's only been operational for a year and a half, you haven't even given it a chance. You'll fail a lot in life if you are that quick to admit defeat.

Not to mention it's the largest machine ever constructed by man, and its own prototype. It's not something that works at 100% right out of the box.