Thread: Who will you vote for? UPDATED

What about it? I am voting because of my religious personal opinion. Just like others are voting for THEIR personal opinions. No matter how much we fight for it there will hardly EVER be a separation between state and church, from a country that was made BASED off religion.

At least I'm being honest that my voting is biased. I'm not trying to be correct and say my vote won't be biased, because it is. By my beliefs though, the last candidate I would ever vote for is Obama, and if I had to vote for him, I simply wouldn't vote at all.

Sad but true..... religion is part of who I am....

-patience

Originally Posted by PatienceMarie

What about it? I am voting because of my religious personal opinion. Just like others are voting for THEIR personal opinions. No matter how much we fight for it there will hardly EVER be a separation between state and church, from a country that was made BASED off a religion.

At least I'm being honest that my voting is biased. I'm not trying to be correct and say my vote won't be biased, because it is. By my beliefs though, the last candidate I would ever vote for is Obama, and if I had to vote for him, I simply wouldn't vote at all.

Sad but true..... religion is part of who I am....

-patience

Sorry to burst your bubble, but regardless of what your pastor or parents say, The United States of America is a SECULAR Country. It was NOT BASED off a religion at all.
I agree, it is sad, it's very sad that religion has to dictate your life, and if you want to talk, PM me, I'm a recovering Christian of 17+ years.

Originally Posted by PatienceMarie

What about it? I am voting because of my religious personal opinion. Just like others are voting for THEIR personal opinions. No matter how much we fight for it there will hardly EVER be a separation between state and church, from a country that was made BASED off a religion.

At least I'm being honest that my voting is biased. I'm not trying to be correct and say my vote won't be biased, because it is. By my beliefs though, the last candidate I would ever vote for is Obama, and if I had to vote for him, I simply wouldn't vote at allSad but true..... religion is part of who I am....
.

-patience

I have to agree with Elis D on this one.

Your country wasnt based of christianity. You want proof? Look no farther then your constitution and im quoting here. "The treaty of Tripoli ratified unaminuously by congress and passed by the President said the following As the government of the united states of america is not, in any sense founded on the christian relegion..."

Furthermore there is evidence to suggest that your very founding fathers were not christians

On your pledge of allegiance the words "under god" wre not added until 1954 until a catholic organazation was able to have the pledge modified witht eh word. On your money the words in god we trust were added much later after the creation of your country.

Your country is not founded on chrfistianity!!!

I won't ask any more questions of you but why do you not like Obama?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4fQA9mt-Mg

Opps excuse e moi.

And Elis D, calm your panties. My pastor or my parents? Good one.

I'm not even discussing anything else in public, but I'd be glad to discuss it through PM DL .

People get offended too easily over someone elses beliefs. Sorry for stateing MY PERSONAL OPINION.

Even though I admitted it was biased and what-not.

-patience

Originally Posted by PatienceMarie

By my beliefs though, the last candidate I would ever vote for is Obama, and if I had to vote for him, I simply wouldn't vote at all.

What is it about Obama that conflicts with your beliefs? Is he the wrong denomination? To all appearances he's a much more involved Christian than Hillary. Of all the candidates, he seems to have the most simultaneously sincere and sophisticated religious life, though I'd rather a non-Christian could take the highest office in this country.

P.S.--I voted for Obama today.

Originally Posted by PatienceMarie

Once again, I excused myself earlier for being wrong,

AND DARN TOOTEN I AM!!

I am voting for someone I support that has the same religious background as me!

Couldn't get any better.

Oh yeah.... did I already mention I am making a biased vote? Just incase I didn't... I'm making a biased vote.

-patience

Good, you admit it.

Originally Posted by wasup

Ultimately, it comes down to your philosophy. It is selfish and intolerant to force others to obey YOUR religious convictions, as well as make them suffer the detriments that such convictions would cause on society. If you believe that you and other Christians are the only ones who should not have belief systems forced on them, and you believe that every other person of any other creed should be forced to abide by Christian ideals and Christian practices, vote Huckabee. I cannot vote. But if I could, I would vote for Obama. Why? He promises a secular government. I don't really care about a candidates religion as long as they promise their beliefs will not affect their decisions.

What are we electing here? The pope? The candidates are running for the position of the president of the United States not the leader of the Church. Therefore vote appropriately.

ron paul

Sorry Xox. It was hard to tell who you were addressing.

Well, wasup, I could take the time to address each of your points, but I think you covered pretty much every grievance others have with him that I don't. I believe that for a number of people, those are very legitimate concerns, but I simply don't want to get sucked into a roundabout conversation where I eventually stop posting because a compromise or solution can not be reached. I'm not a debater by nature.

In parting, I pose this question: How would voting for a non-Christian be different than voting for a Christian? Instead of having someone who supports the words "In God We Trust" on money, we'd have someone who says that teaching Creation (aka. intelligent design) in schools is wrong or useless. Somebody's beliefs are going to get stepped on. My vote is to ensure it's not me.

EDIT: Oh, and Huckabee pulled out of the Republican nomination. I'm surprised someone didn't rush here to mention it (I'm still voting for him in the Oregon primary.... Stupid state, taking so long to vote.)

Originally Posted by Taosaur

What is it about Obama that conflicts with your beliefs? Is he the wrong denomination? To all appearances he's a much more involved Christian than Hillary. Of all the candidates, he seems to have the most simultaneously sincere and sophisticated religious life, though I'd rather a non-Christian could take the highest office in this country.

P.S.--I voted for Obama today.

Do you really think I would talk about it HERE? Hell nahhh. Too many people that hate/really dislike anything with a Christian view.

It has nothing to do with his race though. Since he really isn't a race.... he is more like....a mix....

You can PM me though

Originally Posted by Xox

Good, you admit it.

I admitted from the GET go. That's what you seemed to have missed.

Originally Posted by Elis D.

Sorry sweetie, I'm not a cross dresser And I realize the pastor/parent thing was a little harsh, that(US is A Christian Nation) is just a line I got from mine a lot.

The offer will be open indefinitely.

And I didn't get offended, I just wanted to give you the *there is no way to say this without sounding like an asshole* truth.

No I probably got it from my mom more than anybody in this world. My dad never talks to me about it, even though his father was a pastor, and my grandparents who were pastors never lectured me of religion nor do I believe in church, but my mom was kind of looney.... no one ever listened to her anyways.

Too bad . I like crossdressers.

-patience

Originally Posted by PatienceMarie

Too bad . I like crossdressers.

I guess you didn't see the wink?

Originally Posted by Elis D.

I guess you didn't see the wink?

Oh la la tres chic magnific!!

-patience

Originally Posted by PatienceMarie

Oh la la tres chic magnific!!

-patience

Oui oui, mon cherie.

But still, Ame, what is your answer to some essential questions...
- Is the preservation of life essential? If yes, then why oppose stem cells, which could save millions? If you are against it because it kills the stem cell, are you against masturbation, sodomy, condoms, and birth control? Are you against blowing your nose? You don't want to kill bacteria. All life is God's creation, right?
- Do gays deserve rights?
- Is it a good idea to teach intelligent design in schools? If so, shouldn't we teach the belief system of the flying spaghetti monster? It is absolutely as supported as intelligent design.

Furthermore, you misunderstand the concept of a secular president. A secular president is not the same thing as "anti-religious." Secular simply means religion will not play a part. It does not mean there will be hostility toward religion, though. There is a big difference between simply not having religion play a part in decisions, which is generally rather neutral overall in offending people and having a Christian leader. Your vote is not to ensure your beliefs won't be stepped on. Indeed, a secular president would not oppress Christians, they would simply not make Christian policies. That is hardly stepping on anybody's beliefs. Rather, your vote is to ensure that everybody else's beliefs are stepped on.

Originally Posted by wasup

But still, Ame, what is your answer to some essential questions...
- Is the preservation of life essential? If yes, then why oppose stem cells, which could save millions? If you are against it because it kills the stem cell, are you against masturbation, sodomy, condoms, and birth control? Are you against blowing your nose? You don't want to kill bacteria. All life is God's creation, right?
- Do gays deserve rights?
- Is it a good idea to teach intelligent design in schools? If so, shouldn't we teach the belief system of the flying spaghetti monster? It is absolutely as supported as intelligent design.

I'll PM you.

Furthermore, you misunderstand the concept of a secular president. A secular president is not the same thing as "anti-religious." Secular simply means religion will not play a part. It does not mean there will be hostility toward religion, though. There is a big difference between simply not having religion play a part in decisions, which is generally rather neutral overall in offending people and having a Christian leader. Your vote is not to ensure your beliefs won't be stepped on. Indeed, a secular president would not oppress Christians, they would simply not make Christian policies. That is hardly stepping on anybody's beliefs. Rather, your vote is to ensure that everybody else's beliefs are stepped on.

The general trend in this country - and you'll probably disagree - is either to either be a Christian or be against Christianity. I've seen the persecution of Christians growing, either through conscious effort, foolish ignorance, or apathy. I am not (using the words of the great Kaniaz) an "OMG Offended!!!" but I can't help but see "political correctness" slowly encroaching on my ability to worship the God in whom I believe and do what I can to try and improve this country and this world in the way I feel is best.

And when you say "Secular simply means religion will not play a part," you're saying that religion will not influence society. It sounds like atheism to me.

Originally Posted by Amethyst Star

I'll PM you.



The general trend in this country - and you'll probably disagree - is either to either be a Christian or be against Christianity. I've seen the persecution of Christians growing, either through conscious effort, foolish ignorance, or apathy. I am not (using the words of the great Kaniaz) an "OMG Offended!!!" but I can't help but see "political correctness" slowly encroaching on my ability to worship the God in whom I believe and do what I can to try and improve this country and this world in the way I feel is best.

"Political correctness" does not enroach on your ability to worship, it simply gives others the freedom NOT to worship. Giving others the freedom to be free from religion doesn't keep you from participating in your own religion. Perhaps it is an opportunity loss (for example, don't have the opportunity to mass pray in school), but there is a huge difference in not forcing people to pray in school and not ALLOWING people to pray in school. What a secular president is going for here is not forcing people to participate in religion. As I said, that does not keep you from participating in your own religion, does it?

And when you say "Secular simply means religion will not play a part," you're saying that religion will not influence society. It sounds like atheism to me.

Well, my point here is the difference between "active atheism" and "passive atheism." If it was active atheism, it would go about oppressing theists. Passive atheism is simply removing religious influence from government. Oppressing theists would, as you said, take away their right to worship. Not teaching (mandatory) religion classes in public schools, removing "in god we trust," allowing gays to marry, and allowing stem cell research (or disallowing entirely independent from religion) is passive atheism. It hardly affects your ability to worship. For the most part, I would say that it actually supports your religion. The ultimate goal of a (secular) nation is to foster tolerance (allow gay marriage, not forcing people to abide by Christian values) and to preserve life (stem cell research). Sounds pretty good to me as an atheist and from a Christian point of view. I understand why you wouldn't want things like the PROHIBITION of religious education and such, but that is not the goal. It is simply freeing others from religious influences.

(And this is why I steer clear of anything resembling extended discussion.)

I disagree with you, but any response I try to write doesn't come out the way I want it to. By having a "secular" leader, yes, my religious rights are called into question.

To me, you either hold to your beliefs or you don't. If you claim to be a Christian and say it's okay for two men or two women to marry, you've gone against Christianity. If you're a Muslim and say you don't have to fast during Ramadan, you've gone against Islam. To ask someone to tolerate something that they believe is wrong is, in my opinion, asking too much.

I am not going to "disown" someone because their views are different than mine. I have friends that are gay, athiests, emo, liberal, economists, etc. and I love them to death. But if they believe something that I don't agree with, I won't compromise what I hold to be true in order to accomidate them.

EDIT: I'm done.

Originally Posted by Amethyst Star

The general trend in this country - and you'll probably disagree - is either to either be a Christian or be against Christianity.

Ignoring for the moment all the "sorta Christian"s with a distrust of organized religion, the polarization of many people for and against Christianity has a lot to do with the blatant, politically motivated, us-against-them rhetoric coming from Evangelical leaders, and the willingness of congregations to parrot their talking points even when they're unethical positions or deliberate lies. The actions undertaken publicly in the name of Christianity strike many Americans as rather un-Christian. Half the purpose of the Establishment Clause is to protect religious institutions from the taint of politics, of which American Evangelism presently reeks.

Originally Posted by Amethyst Star

In parting, I pose this question: How would voting for a non-Christian be different than voting for a Christian?

If I ever get the opportunity, I'll tell you all about it.

Originally Posted by Amethyst Star

Instead of having someone who supports the words "In God We Trust" on money, we'd have someone who says that teaching Creation (aka. intelligent design) in schools is wrong or useless. Somebody's beliefs are going to get stepped on. My vote is to ensure it's not me.

My vote is to ensure that we move forward in a way that does the most to increase everyone's freedom and quality of life. That's everyone in the world. Does that trample on your beliefs?