The irrationality of Palestinian suicide bombings

[Universal Mind]

Dragon Overlord has said in at least two threads that Islamofascist suicide bombings are a good thing because they "even up the score". We are talking about the targetting of innocent civilians, including children and babies. I understand that sometimes innocent people have to die during a legitimate war effort even though it is profoundly unfortunate. However, what I think is completely irrational is the idea that the killing of innocents in itself is something good. I think it is horribly tragic. I challenge Dragon Overlord to once and for all finally say specifically what is good about targetting innocent Israelis, Americans, and Iraqis and killing them on purpose and how it serves to "get even". I titled the thread with "Palestinian suicide bombings" because that is what we focussed on most recently, but my question is actually broader than that. I really want to understand this mindless and pointless terrorism shit, and I challenge Dragon Overlord not to duck out of the conversation this time. Dragon Overlord, I want you to be as specific as you possibly can and explain this... Suicide Bombings serve a purpouse and they serve it well. To even up the score between mal alrmed militias and modern militaries like those of the united states and israel. Tell me a better way other then sucide bombings for these militias strike at their enemies?

[Howie]

I know the question was not directed at me personally. I know that most all of us have had to have questioned the rational of the suicide bomber's methods. As hard as it is for us to understand much less comprehend their motive is, in their head, logical. If from birth or young age, or just susceptible you can see how this branch of terrorism could get embraced. If you have been taught to believe the western civilization is the real root cause of evil and you, by acting out a bombing attack in turn get rewarded.... well then it seems about the hardest form of brainwashing that can exist. So for Dragon Overlord to feel it "evens out the score" then it would seem he too feels that the West, it's ideals and culture are the root of the evil and is winning. It will be interesting to here his view. If that is how you keep score? Do the Islamofascist make a notch in their bed posts us //// The West //// //

[nina]

What about all the innocent Palestinians that are being slaughtered? We never hear about them, do we? Well, only if you are intelligent enough to realize that our media is full of BS and seek outside sources that aren't so biased. What about the Palestinian women and children that are gunned down at checkpoints, sick and dying, trying to get to hospitals, schools. Do you have any idea how many women die giving birth at checkpoints because some effing teenager Israeli soldiers just don't give a shit and are on power trips. And last I checked, suicide bombings don't target innocent women and children. If innocent people get killed in the process...well tell that to the Israelis who "accidentally" drop bombs on civilian houses, schools, hospitals, etc. Yeah I'm sure with all their technology they "accidentally" bombed a hundred Palestinians on a beach. Bull shit. I mean, what the hell are the Palestinians supposed to do? That's their only weapon, suicide bombings. They don't have the UNITED STATES giving them billions of dollars for weapons. They fight bullets with stones for chrissake. I have no sympathy for the Israelis at all. Call me a terrorist if you want, I don't care. But do me a favor and don't post ignorant shit when you have no clue what you're talking about. (not directed at UM)

[Spartiate]

Well that's what terrorism is, to inflict terror. It's not the military they're trying to terrorize, it's the general populace. Now every Israeli fears getting blown up every time they go to the market, mission accomplished.

[Universal Mind]

I know the question was not directed at me personally. I know that most all of us have had to have questioned the rational of the suicide bomber's methods. As hard as it is for us to understand much less comprehend their motive is, in their head, logical. If from birth or young age, or just susceptible you can see how this branch of terrorism could get embraced. If you have been taught to believe the western civilization is the real root cause of evil and you, by acting out a bombing attack in turn get rewarded.... well then it seems about the hardest form of brainwashing that can exist. So for Dragon Overlord to feel it "evens out the score" then it would seem he too feels that the West, it's ideals and culture are the root of the evil and is winning. It will be interesting to here his view. If that is how you keep score? Do the Islamofascist make a notch in their bed posts us //// The West //// // I think that sums it up. They think even innocent Westerners and Israelis are evil, and they think they will be able to have an orgy with 75 virgin whores. They are brainwashed and crazy. As far as I know, that is the best answer that can be given. Well that's what terrorism is, to inflict terror. It's not the military they're trying to terrorize, it's the general populace. Now every Israeli fears getting blown up every time they go to the market, mission accomplished. What does that accomplished mission accomplish? I still don't get it. It just seems like evil for the sake of venting rage by taking it out on innocents. I understand calculated military actions that actually bring about results that are much more beneficial to the world than they are bad to certain factions of the innocent population. Sometimes you have to choose between terrible and superterrible. What I do not understand is this bullshit about, "Me so angry! Me blow up random cafe!" That is just irrational sickness. What about all the innocent Palestinians that are being slaughtered? We never hear about them, do we? Well, only if you are intelligent enough to realize that our media is full of BS and seek outside sources that aren't so biased. What about the Palestinian women and children that are gunned down at checkpoints, sick and dying, trying to get to hospitals, schools. Do you have any idea how many women die giving birth at checkpoints because some effing teenager Israeli soldiers just don't give a shit and are on power trips. And last I checked, suicide bombings don't target innocent women and children. If innocent people get killed in the process...well tell that to the Israelis who "accidentally" drop bombs on civilian houses, schools, hospitals, etc. Yeah I'm sure with all their technology they "accidentally" bombed a hundred Palestinians on a beach. Bull shit. I mean, what the hell are the Palestinians supposed to do? That's their only weapon, suicide bombings. They don't have the UNITED STATES giving them billions of dollars for weapons. They fight bullets with stones for chrissake. I have no sympathy for the Israelis at all. Call me a terrorist if you want, I don't care. But do me a favor and don't post ignorant shit when you have no clue what you're talking about. (not directed at UM) I am not asking about Israeli counterattacks against government targets that involve civilian deaths in the crossfire. Every time they are out of line, screw them too, but at least calculated strategy is involved, and at least it weakens the government backing of the nut case scum I am talking about. I am asking about the deliberate Palestinian targetting of civilians. And yes, they do target civilians. They blow up buses, restaurants, cafes, and street crowds on purpose. They target people who were born in Israel. They target people whose parents and grandparents were born in Israel. They target children and babies who have no idea what is going on in world politics. You gave the kind of argument I am talking about. You gave the, "What else are they supposed to do?" response. That does not answer the question. I want to know SPECIFICALLY what is accomplished other than terrible things for innocent people and the venting of rage of evil people, plus the temporary belief of evil people that they are going to Allah's Heaven to screw 75 virgins. Anything else?

[Spartiate]

What does that accomplished mission accomplish? I still don't get it. It just seems like evil for the sake of venting rage by taking it out on innocents. I understand calculated military actions that actually bring about results that are much more beneficial to the world than they are bad to certain factions of the innocent population. Sometimes you have to choose between terrible and superterrible. What I do not understand is this bullshit about, "Me so angry! Me blow up random cafe!" That is just irrational sickness. I think you give them too much credit. Suicide bombers are already desperately fanatical and endoctrinated, so logic isn't their strong suit. And maybe you underestimate just how much Palestinians hate Israelis (example), they really have a grudge on the people, not solely its government. So they try to inflict as much damage as they can on the people, without making many distinctions between the military and civilians. Also, back in the day, terrorism and guerilla warfare was a good way to try and get rid of unwanted arrivals. Attacking the civilian population would cause them to put a lot of pressure on the government, making them seriously consider packing up their bags and finding a safer spot. But now that it's clear that Israel is here to stay, all it does is further militarize the country and escalate the violence, in a sense, entrench the Israelis. Old habbits die hard I guess?

[dragonoverlord]

Sucidie bombers actually do accomplish objectives but then again they do have negative effectes. In israel suicide bombers reduce tourism,reduce immigration rates and have an effect to increase emmigration rates. They also serve to reduce israels overall image makng investement go down. In Iraq Suicide bombers level the playing field, although in the wrong hands they can be used to hurt civilans which is regretable. Also, back in the day, terrorism and guerilla warfare was a good way to try and get rid of unwanted arrivals. Attacking the civilian population would cause them to put a lot of pressure on the government, making them seriously consider packing up their bags and finding a safer spot. But now that it's clear that Israel is here to stay, all it does is further militarize the country and escalate the violence, in a sense, entrench the Israelis. Old habbits die hard I guess? Israel isnt here to say simply put. In the next 20-40 years demographic changes within the israeli arab population coupled with high emmigration rate will make Israel a muslim arab state the way it should be. THe Palestinian/arab conflict does take its toll on israelies. They have to join up with the IDF at 18 y/o, and deal with the possibility of getting killed like in the Hezbollah/Israel conflict were Israel saw casulaties higher then the casulaties the canadians sustained in afghanistan in over 7 years of being in afghanist. Israel got much higher casulaties then that in a period of only a few weeks. Israelies get frustrated with that plus they cant go to university and all the things that come with conflict. It all equals up to a high emigration rate and a very low immigration rate to israel. All the while israel has a steadily growing arab population. It succeeded in drawing the world's attention to the desperate situation of Palestinians within Israel's borders, and instilling fear in a vastly superior enemy. Remove the grounds for this behavior--young men who look forward to death because they've lost everything they had to lose--and we might have a chance to stop it. Disclaimer: killing bad. That attitude is quite prevalient in occupied palestinians in the West bank. Watch the movie Paradise now and you'll know what im talking about. Im not sure if you can get it in the usa but you can try ofcourse. Israel tried to stop it from entering the west but they failed. They tried eveyrthing they even played the anti semite card. I know the question was not directed at me personally. I know that most all of us have had to have questioned the rational of the suicide bomber's methods. As hard as it is for us to understand much less comprehend their motive is, in their head, logical. If from birth or young age, or just susceptible you can see how this branch of terrorism could get embraced. If you have been taught to believe the western civilization is the real root cause of evil and you, by acting out a bombing attack in turn get rewarded.... well then it seems about the hardest form of brainwashing that can exist. So for Dragon Overlord to feel it "evens out the score" then it would seem he too feels that the West, it's ideals and culture are the root of the evil and is winning. It will be interesting to here his view. If that is how you keep score? Do the Islamofascist make a notch in their bed posts us //// The West //// // Most Suicide Bombers don't feel that way:http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080304/...er_transformed You guys invaded iraq and they dont have the world class military you guys have they need a way to level the playing field! They aren't fighting you cause of your culture they are fighting you cause you invaded their country and you support the parasite of the middle east (israel). Like i said in my other posts the best way to get into the head of a suicide bomber is watch the movie paradise now. and how can i hate the west if im a westerner? Your logic eludes me i have nothing against the west or its culture... nah, those are the only places that need nuking...And anyway you guys need the oil....the last thing u want is radioactive gasoline...

[Taosaur]

It succeeded in drawing the world's attention to the desperate situation of Palestinians within Israel's borders, and instilling fear in a vastly superior enemy. Remove the grounds for this behavior--young men who look forward to death because they've lost everything they had to lose--and we might have a chance to stop it. Disclaimer: killing bad.

[Kushna Mufeed]

I was under the impression that all, or at least most, Israeli citizen's were soldiers, either in service or on reserve. I'm not entirely sure how truthful this is, so don't hold me to it, but if it is true doesn't that mean that most of them aren't civilians?

[Universal Mind]

Sucidie bombers actually do accomplish objectives but then again they do have negative effectes. In israel suicide bombers reduce tourism,reduce immigration rates and have an effect to increase emmigration rates. They also serve to reduce israels overall image makng investement go down. Finally, that qualifies as an answer from you. So the blowing up of masses of innocents hurts Israeli tourism, immigration, and stock. So all this time you have been saying that the mass killing of little kiddies, babies, mommies, and daddies is a good thing because it hurts Israeli immigration and the financial situations of the innocents who are not killed. To make an understatement, I very much disagree with you. In Iraq Suicide bombers level the playing field, although in the wrong hands they can be used to hurt civilans which is regretable. With that statement, you went back to being vague. "Level the playing field"? How? Could you be specific? It is just more pointlessness that keeps our 150,000 in Iraq. I think you give them too much credit. Suicide bombers are already desperately fanatical and endoctrinated, so logic isn't their strong suit. And maybe you underestimate just how much Palestinians hate Israelis (example), they really have a grudge on the people, not solely its government. So they try to inflict as much damage as they can on the people, without making many distinctions between the military and civilians. That is exactly my theory on it. They are just hateful assholes who want to hurt people just for being Israeli. Well, that and they want to go to the Muslim Heaven and have sexy time. That's what it all comes down to.

[dragonoverlord]

Finally, that qualifies as an answer from you. So The blowing Up of masses of innocents hurts Israeli tourism, immigration, and stock. So all this time you have been saying that the mass killing of little kiddies, babies, mommies, and daddies is a good thing because it hurts Israeli immigration and the financial situations of the innocents who are not killed. To make an understatement, I very much disagree with you. I told you in my PM that making a jewish state on Arab land is effectively tresspasing of the highest order. They have no right to have a country on Arab Land, I'm all for whatever it takes to get rid of these trespassers. With that statement, you went back to being vague. "Level the playing field"? How? Could you be specific? It is just more pointlessness that keeps our 150,000 in Iraq. you guys invaded iraq a country that had nothing to with you. You attacked first now deal with the Reaction.[/QUOTE] That is exactly my theory on it. They are just hateful assholes who want to hurt people just for being Israeli. Well, that and they want to go to the Muslim Heaven and have sexy time. That's what it all comes down To No, like i said in the othe Thread one of Osama's grievances with america was the placement of usa soldiers in Saudi. You Respond to Osmas attack on america by invding a country that had nothing to do With 9/11 and had nothing to do with you guys. Look up the word "Ummah" You guys invoked the wrath of the Ummah war Machine by Invading a muslim Country.