Thread: Voting McCain?

Originally Posted by Omnius Deus

And UM, Obama is... murdering right now. I don't know what you're talking about with extra baggage either. Like... his preacher? John McCain's spirital leader has said way more or at least equally fucked up things. His middle name? What baggage?

The Wright controversy really warped a lot of people's perception of Obama. He is doing well with about half of the Democratic party, but it stops there. The people who make the difference in an election are the independents, and they do not like the fact that Obama went to an anti-American extremist church for 20 years. People who are not die hard Obama supporters generally take the position that a person does not go to an anti-American extremist church for 20 years unless he is an anti-American extremist himself. Also, Obama is a good friend of Bill Ayers, an admitted terrorist who bombed the Pentagon, the capitol, and New York police headquarters and killed people in the 70's. He got off on a technicality, and that is why he is not in prison. To this day, Ayers says he is proud of what he did. On 9/11/01, Ayers said he wished he had killed more people. Obama and Ayers used to give speeches together, and Obama even now says Ayers is a "friend". This country is not going to elect somebody who does not condemn the Hell out of terrorism and mean it. It is not going to happen. On top of that, Obama dissed religious gun owners, and this is the wrong country to be doing that in if you are trying to be the president.

Furthermore, the Republicans have done a damn good job of splitting up the Democratic Party. They pulled the Wright story out at a key time to keep the Democratic primary competition alive. They have been keeping the election very close so Hillary and Obama will be at each other's throats. A high percentage of Clinton supporters say they will refuse to vote for Obama. In most elections, Democrats end up voting for the Democrat even if the Democrat they wanted did not get the nomination. That is not going to be happening enough for Obama. So Obama has lost too many independents and too many Democrats. He is finished.

I also think that when Obama debates McCain, it is going to become very obvious how hollow Obama's speech has been. He is excellent at sounding good on the surface, but he has not been doing a good job of talking about specifics. He just says a bunch of fluff like, "We need change," and, "All Americans should have health care." When he starts really getting challenged, it is going to be apparent that he is very inexperienced and doesn't understand how the world works. He said we should invade Pakistan.

If Ron Paul runs as an Independent, Obama will lose a ton of votes to him and get crushed even harder.

He actually does have a lot of plans.... have you seen his website? It's mostly that people at a rally don't really much want to hear how someone plans to do it, especially if that information is readily available on his website. From a strategic point of view, it's much better to simply say "health care, energy, get out of iraq" then explain in depth the process by which he will enact or go about these things. Obama challenged Mccain to a debate on foreign policy and so far McCain hasn't taken him up on that, so I kind of think when you say "when he gets challenged" doesn't really hold considering he is challenging others and they are backing off.

Originally Posted by wasup

He actually does have a lot of plans.... have you seen his website? It's mostly that people at a rally don't really much want to hear how someone plans to do it, especially if that information is readily available on his website. From a strategic point of view, it's much better to simply say "health care, energy, get out of iraq" then explain in depth the process by which he will enact or go about these things. Obama challenged Mccain to a debate on foreign policy and so far McCain hasn't taken him up on that, so I kind of think when you say "when he gets challenged" doesn't really hold considering he is challenging others and they are backing off.

I'll check out the web site. McCain probably wants to see who the nominee is going to be before he agrees to a debate. The nominee will probably be Obama, and if so, McCain and Obama will definitely be debating. I know that Obama will not go on the O'Reilly Factor or Hannity and Colmes. I really think that if he does have good ideas, he could make that very clear on those shows. Surviving a Hannity or O'Reilly interview would give perception of his agenda much more solidity. So far, he has only done soft ball interviews.

I don't think Wright is anti-american, though he is an extremist. Words like anti-american are tools used by nationalists to make other ideas associated with foreign invasion. It's not a connection my brain naturally draws because I'm aware of it, UM, and so there's no point in using the term anti-american for describing anything unless you want to wear your utter disregard for alternative perspectives on your sleeve.

And before you say things like, "Obama is only popular with half the democrats" look up a poll please. WHo do the other half support? Obama's first name, Barack? The democrats and independents are unifying under Barack because his speeches contain solutions in them, he's straight forward and honest, and frankly WE CAN ALL SEE THROUGH THE BULLSHIT.

Seriously, Fox News did an article trying to assert a school Barack attended was a terrorist training camp. It was a regular, public school. They checked absolutely no facts and practiced, like usual, 0 accountability. I mean, the right is really stretching their fingers to try and get dirt on this guy and the more they do the more we see it's all just a weak, feeble attempt by a bunch of fat white men that have to get off their gravy train.

Originally Posted by Omnius Deus

I don't think Wright is anti-american, though he is an extremist. Words like anti-american are tools used by nationalists to make other ideas associated with foreign invasion. It's not a connection my brain naturally draws because I'm aware of it, UM, and so there's no point in using the term anti-american for describing anything unless you want to wear your utter disregard for alternative perspectives on your sleeve.

There you go again with your complete inability to discuss a political disagreement without acting like a jackass twelve year old. So here we go again. Congratulations. You are in no position to accuse people of having utter disregard for other perspectives. Do you read your own posts? You can't even control yourself when somebody disagrees with you. Look in the mirror.

"Anti-American" means "against America". It is the exact term that describes what I am talking about. I know such terms brew up your cult brainwashing nuttiness, but I used the correct term. I don't care who the Hell else says it or why. It is the correct term. Utter disregard for other perspectives has nothing to do with the term I used. You pulled that out of nowhere. Wright is anti-American. It is a fact.

Originally Posted by Omnius Deus

And before you say things like, "Obama is only popular with half the democrats" look up a poll please. WHo do the other half support? Obama's first name, Barack? The democrats and independents are unifying under Barack because his speeches contain solutions in them, he's straight forward and honest, and frankly WE CAN ALL SEE THROUGH THE BULLSHIT.

I am telling you what I have learned from polls. A very high percentage of Clinton supporters polled have said they will not vote for Obama if he is the candidate. There is a great deal of controversy within the Democratic party right now. It is not going well for them. You should research what you are talking about before you stick your neck out and act like that.

Barack said he did not know after twenty years that Wright was an anti-American extremist, yet you say Barack is honest? You are not being honest.

Watch him not win the election. Do you want to make a bet on it? Let's come back to this thread in November and review just how bad Obama got his ass kicked. How about it? Are you going to talk just as much shit about this issue after that happens? I will definitely come back to this thread to remind you of this conversation.

By the way, weren't you talking a bunch of shit a few months ago about how Ron Paul was going to be the Republican candidate? How well is that going at this point? I think he might get the nomination.

Originally Posted by Omnius Deus

Seriously, Fox News did an article trying to assert a school Barack attended was a terrorist training camp. It was a regular, public school. They checked absolutely no facts and practiced, like usual, 0 accountability. I mean, the right is really stretching their fingers to try and get dirt on this guy and the more they do the more we see it's all just a weak, feeble attempt by a bunch of fat white men that have to get off their gravy train.

I never saw that supposed Fox story, so I don't know if you are telling the truth. It is the first I have heard. Finding that Obama is admittedly friends with an admitted terrorist and gave speeches with him and finding that Obama went to an anti-American extremist church for twenty years is not a matter of stretching fingers. You should ask yourself why those facts don't concern you.

Perhaps it would help me understand your infinite wsidom if you defined the term anti-america. To me, reading your posts, you use like it a nazi calling things "ungerman" before WW2. Anything that went against the centralized superior culture of the germanic people was considered unpatriotic, ungerman, all the words you used to describe Wright. Now, I know you're not a nazi so I apologize for thinking because you were using "anti-american" it made you hold a similarlity to fascist ideals. If you could just explain what anti-americanism really is and how the usage of the word is NOT just a tool by american fascists to wage war against the counter-culture?

Furthermore... I apologize so much for not checking my facts and providing absolutely no statistical data to back up my facts. It was wrong of me to sink to your level by doing that. I know, if you just say a fact without any evidence, no one will believe you. Of course, when talking with you it doesn't matter how many statistics or facts are pulled up you'll still disregard them if they disagree with your opinions. You might scan them with this pointy little judgmental eyes of yours that sink in a little bit unusually deep behind your brow, but will you ever listen to an idea outside of your own without judgment?

And I read that poll that showed a higher percentage of clinton supporters would not vote for barack obama than barack obama supporters that would not vote for clinton. It's a pretty big step to assert that the democrats are divided from that, though. Granted, it has been a Fox News talking point recently that the democrats are divided which is supposed to be really good for McCain, so I can't blame you for listening to every word they say like spoon fed melted marshmellows but in the real world outside of Fox News where there's accountability most former Clinton supporters are beginning to rally behind him. Clinton is being a major bitch, a sore loser, and frankly a pain in everyone's ass, she's just disappointed she can't take any more multimillion dollar bribes at the expense of the welfare of the american people in the next 4 years.

Furthermore, Barack Obama never lied about Wright, he said he was not present during the more outrageous stuff Wright has said. Furthermore, dozens of researchers were looking over Barack's history. They had to scan 40 years of presentations by Reverend Wright to find just a few extremist quotes. People that attended Wrights' congregations were interviewed and said they were typically pretty normal, once in a while he got pretty political and then you could tell he was fairly left wing but that's it. That's other people that attended his church for 20 years. People take his quotes out of context and assume he was running a terrorist networking cell. The man holds some opinions are simply very far-fetched, and you act like Barack lied when he openly admitted he married under Wright and his children were baptized under Wright. He didn't dance around the issue like mcCain did with his extremist spiritual leader, either. He said straight up, "He is my spiritual leader, but that doesn't mean I agree with everything he says."

I mean, my pot dealer thinks people should be allowed to say "nigger" again because back in his time it didn't mean black person, just someone lower than the belly of the snake. He also says he's teleported, he thinks yellowstone is going up on dec 2012, and I could go on. What, so I have to find a new pot dealer because some of his opinions are in contradiction with my own?

What about my social studies teacher, he believed the government was behind the assassinations of JFK, MLK and Malcolm X. He thinks the gulf of tonka never happened, that FDR let pearl harbour happen so he could fight the Germans and that Harrison Ford is the best actor of all time. He's still a really good teacher inspite of his viewpoints... because most of time he's teaching, most of time my dealer's dealing and Wright was mostly preaching. Conclusion: A man is allowed at least one good, close friend with a few outrageous opinions, everyone has them. Argument nullified.

CAN YOU SMELL WHAT BARACK IS COOKIN?

Originally Posted by Seismosaur

If Obama gets elected it shall be the final sign that humans as a race have totally lost it and I shall disown my country and fly myself to the moon.

If I hadn't already decided to vote for Obama, this would have clinched it.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080521/...ll_politics_dc

I forgot to mention even if hillary supporters didn't vote for obama, the republican base is still so much smaller now due to all the corruption that Obama is still beating mccain. Hell, Hillary should run independently to take votes away from mccain!

Right.

Originally Posted by Omnius Deus

Perhaps it would help me understand your infinite wsidom if you defined the term anti-america.

I did not call myself wise, and I did define "anti-American". You should read the post you are responding to.

Originally Posted by Omnius Deus

To me, reading your posts, you use like it a nazi calling things "ungerman" before WW2. Anything that went against the centralized superior culture of the germanic people was considered unpatriotic, ungerman, all the words you used to describe Wright. Now, I know you're not a nazi so I apologize for thinking because you were using "anti-american" it made you hold a similarlity to fascist ideals. If you could just explain what anti-americanism really is and how the usage of the word is NOT just a tool by american fascists to wage war against the counter-culture?

Like I said, it means "against America", not "respectully disagrees with certain American policies".

Originally Posted by Omnius Deus

Furthermore... I apologize so much for not checking my facts and providing absolutely no statistical data to back up my facts. It was wrong of me to sink to your level by doing that. I know, if you just say a fact without any evidence, no one will believe you. Of course, when talking with you it doesn't matter how many statistics or facts are pulled up you'll still disregard them if they disagree with your opinions. You might scan them with this pointy little judgmental eyes of yours that sink in a little bit unusually deep behind your brow, but will you ever listen to an idea outside of your own without judgment?

What the Hell is your problem? You are determined to be rude and make up stuff about me. Try giving counterarguments instead of merely showing how rotten you are. It would be a much more intellectual and effective approach.

What facts did I supposedly make up?

Originally Posted by Omnius Deus

And I read that poll that showed a higher percentage of clinton supporters would not vote for barack obama than barack obama supporters that would not vote for clinton. It's a pretty big step to assert that the democrats are divided from that, though. Granted, it has been a Fox News talking point recently that the democrats are divided which is supposed to be really good for McCain, so I can't blame you for listening to every word they say like spoon fed melted marshmellows but in the real world outside of Fox News where there's accountability most former Clinton supporters are beginning to rally behind him. Clinton is being a major bitch, a sore loser, and frankly a pain in everyone's ass, she's just disappointed she can't take any more multimillion dollar bribes at the expense of the welfare of the american people in the next 4 years.

You have got to be the most hateful person who posts here. For real.

The poll says it all, not Fox News. There is a major controversy going on between Clinton and Obama supporters, and it has gotten ugly. I have seen the polls, I have heard and read the opinions, and I have seen the flaming going on between the two candidates. It has gotten nasty. Bitch at them, not at me for pointing out the facts.

Originally Posted by Omnius Deus

Furthermore, Barack Obama never lied about Wright, he said he was not present during the more outrageous stuff Wright has said. Furthermore, dozens of researchers were looking over Barack's history. They had to scan 40 years of presentations by Reverend Wright to find just a few extremist quotes. People that attended Wrights' congregations were interviewed and said they were typically pretty normal, once in a while he got pretty political and then you could tell he was fairly left wing but that's it. That's other people that attended his church for 20 years. People take his quotes out of context and assume he was running a terrorist networking cell. The man holds some opinions are simply very far-fetched, and you act like Barack lied when he openly admitted he married under Wright and his children were baptized under Wright. He didn't dance around the issue like mcCain did with his extremist spiritual leader, either. He said straight up, "He is my spiritual leader, but that doesn't mean I agree with everything he says."

McCain said that guy is "a" spiritual leader, not HIS spriritual leader. Obama is very, very close to Wright, and he said he did not know Wright has such hateful views. What was it you were saying about being spoon fed lies? But in your favor, I will say that I don't really think you believe that lie.

Don't waste your time with the silly "out of context" argument. I have seen the videos. Was somebody else's voice dubbed in over Wright's?

Originally Posted by Omnius Deus

I mean, my pot dealer thinks people should be allowed to say "nigger" again because back in his time it didn't mean black person, just someone lower than the belly of the snake. He also says he's teleported, he thinks yellowstone is going up on dec 2012, and I could go on. What, so I have to find a new pot dealer because some of his opinions are in contradiction with my own?

Does your pot dealer preach his philosophies of life and spirituality to you ever Sunday? Do you go to your pot dealer for such guidance every Sunday? If so, you need to find somebody else to do it, and I will definitely not be voting for you if you run for president.

Originally Posted by Omnius Deus

What about my social studies teacher, he believed the government was behind the assassinations of JFK, MLK and Malcolm X. He thinks the gulf of tonka never happened, that FDR let pearl harbour happen so he could fight the Germans and that Harrison Ford is the best actor of all time. He's still a really good teacher inspite of his viewpoints... because most of time he's teaching, most of time my dealer's dealing and Wright was mostly preaching. Conclusion: A man is allowed at least one good, close friend with a few outrageous opinions, everyone has them. Argument nullified.

Do you turn to your social studies teacher for philosophies of life and spirituality? Is he your spiritual mentor? Is that the number one role he plays in your life? Plus, thinking some people in the government were involved in those assassinations, which they might have been, is pretty far from spewing the much broader and much more extreme hate Wright spewed, and that Barack Obama of course knew about.

You're missing the point any way. I did not start talking about this to argue about whether Obama really is screwed up for going to that church for 20 years. My point was that doing so put an unfixable dent in his campaign and that he cannot win the election, especially when coupled with the Ayers controversy. You have not addressed the Ayers controversy, by the way. Does it concern you at all?

I also said there are other damaging controversies, and I said I think there is more coming. Stay tuned.

Originally Posted by Omnius Deus

CAN YOU SMELL WHAT BARACK IS COOKIN?

Yes, he is cooking defeat for himself, just like Ron Paul was when you were insisting that he was going to be the Republican nominee. You are going to come back here in November and admit that Barack got his ass whipped in the election, aren't you?

McCain actually has a plan for fighting Islamic fascism. It is almost a unconventional warfare expert's dream.
So I want him in. Even though he is practically liberal on some things and his gun rights voting is spotty at best.

Originally Posted by Seismosaur

If McCain Wins I'll Just Disown This Country-- But I Won't Bother With The Flying To The Moon Bit.

And people wonder how Bush was re-elected...

Sorry, but McCain is going to lose badly. Well, all Obama needs to say is Bush and McCain, which puts McCain in a bad position. He needs support from conseratives, that see McCain as a maverick. However, he will lose the independents, not only that but Bushes popular ratings are very low.

So, all we will hear is Bush and McCain from Obama, which in reality will stop most people voting for McCain or Bush 2. See, if Hillary couldn't stop Obama during his worst hour, then McCain won't.

There is a major controversy going on between Clinton and Obama supporters, and it has gotten ugly. I have seen the polls, I have heard and read the opinions, and I have seen the flaming going on between the two candidates.

The party is spilt down the middle, but at the end of the day they would vote Obama not McCain. If it really gets that bad, then Obama can always make Clinton VP, which it won't.

My point was that doing so put an unfixable dent in his campaign and that he cannot win the election, especially when coupled with the Ayers controversy. You have not addressed the Ayers controversy, by the way. Does it concern you at all?

Another guilt by association argument. This is easily disproven, like Obama is a muslim story.

Yes, he is cooking defeat for himself, just like Ron Paul was when you were insisting that he was going to be the Republican nominee. You are going to come back here in November and admit that Barack got his ass whipped in the election, aren't you?

Ron Paul, proberly would do as good as Bush if he was running, which would be as good as McCain. The Wright scandal was good for Obama, as after it his lead with Blacks went from 50% to 96%, and it only caused Obama minimal damage.

America is not that dumb to vote in Bush 2.

P.S. Obama is battle tested, McCain is not.

How is Obama battle tested?

He absolutley cannot be the commander in chief of the armed forces. He would cripple them.

Originally Posted by wendylove

Sorry, but McCain is going to lose badly.

You have officially been quoted. Come back to this thread in November so we can have a recap. When it comes down to it, this country is not going to put a terrorist buddy and "God damn America!" church goer who disrespects religious gun owners in the White House. It is not going to happen.

Ron Paul does not have a chance either, just like he did not have a chance in the primaries. Watch and see for yourself.

Remember: Recap in November.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

You have officially been quoted. Come back to this thread in November so we can have a recap. When it comes down to it, this country is not going to put a terrorist buddy and "God damn America!" church goer who disrespects religious gun owners in the White House. It is not going to happen.

Ron Paul does not have a chance either, just like he did not have a chance in the primaries. Watch and see for yourself.

Remember: Recap in November.

First off Obama is winning the election, and has more voters than McCain.

Second, McCains economic, and foreign policy SUCK. McCain is an imitation of Bush, and is a neo-con. He is old, and why is it better to be in a prison camp for 5 years? What about the people who didn't get their asses in a prison?

Remember: Recap in November.

I would just like to state that Reverend Wright is not "anti-America." He is "anti-current-American-Administration-who-are-controlling-her(America's)-policies."

He used the phrase "God Damn America" because it was a catchy contrast to "God Bless America," illustrating the point that killing innocent people (as the American Administration is doing, in this war) is an damnable offense, under religious doctrine.

It does not mean "I hate America (the country)," or "I am against America (the country)," as so many try to imply.

Sure he's extremist, in his opinions, but part of Obama's "problem" with him is that people are viewing him as something he's not proven to be.

Originally Posted by Oneironaut

He used the phrase "God Damn America" because it was a catchy contrast to "God Bless America," illustrating the point that killing innocent people (as the American Administration is doing, in this war) is an damnable offense, under religious doctrine.

Originally Posted by Sagea

I've got one, too, and it means just as little as yours.

If you have something to say - say it. I'm not defending him. I'm stating the obvious.

Originally Posted by Oneironaut

I've got one, too, and it means just as little as yours.

If you have something to say - say it. I'm not defending him. I'm stating the obvious.

Well, of course we're killing innocent people. How could I not see it before?
Because Al Qaeda and Taliban are innocent people, ya know.

Originally Posted by Sagea

Because Al Qaeda and Taliban are innocent people, ya know.

Ah, yes. I forgot - Al Qaeda and Taliban militants are the only people the Adminstration is killing in our crusade to get rid of them. How silly of me to think we have directly and indirectly caused the death of countless civilians, during these campaigns.

What was I thinking?

Originally Posted by Sagea

Well, of course we're killing innocent people. How could I not see it before?
Because Al Qaeda and Taliban are innocent people, ya know.

Do you really think we are only killing Al Qaeda, and the Taliban?

UM, my only point was that you are exaggerating the dent Wright put in his campaign. Nobody actually cares. Nobody cares about Hillary anymore either, we're all just waiting for her to shut up and let Barack win the presidency.