Thread: Voting McCain?

Originally Posted by Oneironaut

He used the phrase "God Damn America" because it was a catchy contrast to "God Bless America," illustrating the point that killing innocent people (as the American Administration is doing, in this war) is an damnable offense, under religious doctrine.

Originally Posted by Sagea

I've got one, too, and it means just as little as yours.

If you have something to say - say it. I'm not defending him. I'm stating the obvious.

Originally Posted by Oneironaut

I've got one, too, and it means just as little as yours.

If you have something to say - say it. I'm not defending him. I'm stating the obvious.

Well, of course we're killing innocent people. How could I not see it before?
Because Al Qaeda and Taliban are innocent people, ya know.

Originally Posted by Sagea

Because Al Qaeda and Taliban are innocent people, ya know.

Ah, yes. I forgot - Al Qaeda and Taliban militants are the only people the Adminstration is killing in our crusade to get rid of them. How silly of me to think we have directly and indirectly caused the death of countless civilians, during these campaigns.

What was I thinking?

Originally Posted by Sagea

Well, of course we're killing innocent people. How could I not see it before?
Because Al Qaeda and Taliban are innocent people, ya know.

Do you really think we are only killing Al Qaeda, and the Taliban?

UM, my only point was that you are exaggerating the dent Wright put in his campaign. Nobody actually cares. Nobody cares about Hillary anymore either, we're all just waiting for her to shut up and let Barack win the presidency.

You could find a lot more pictures like that from World War II. Does that mean World War II was not necessary?

Ngo Dinh Diem. Research.

Polling Data------------------Obama--vs--Mcain

RCP Average 05/11 - 05/25 ---47.0--------44.0

(source)

Anti-Americanism

The concept "anti-American" is an interesting one. The counterpart is used only in totalitarian states or military dictatorships... Thus, in the old Soviet Union, dissidents were condemned as "anti-Soviet." That's a natural usage among people with deeply rooted totalitarian instincts, which identify state policy with the society, the people, the culture. In contrast, people with even the slightest concept of democracy treat such notions with ridicule and contempt. Suppose someone in Italy who criticizes Italian state policy were condemned as "anti-Italian." It would be regarded as too ridiculous even to merit laughter. Maybe under Mussolini, but surely not otherwise. Actually the concept has earlier origins. It was used in the Bible by King Ahab, the epitome of evil, to condemn those who sought justice as "anti-Israel" ("ocher Yisrael," in the original Hebrew, roughly "hater of Israel," or "disturber of Israel"). His specific target was Elijah.

“A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government.” - Edward Abbey

“The government is merely a servant -- merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a patriot and who isn't. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.” - Mark Twain



Opinions were flying in here, but no one seemed willing to back themselves up, so I found sources for all of you.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Both wars were for the liberation of oppressed dictatorships. How could that not be about freedom? Vietnam had the bigger objective of stopping Soviet conquest. That effort was very much about freedom. Iraq is also about spreading the spirit of freedom all over the Middle East eventually.

This is the same reason that the Chinese government cites for its invasion of Tibet.

Originally Posted by Omnius Deus

And since when was the war about exporting democracy? I know that's all Bush would say about it when they couldn't find any weapons, but I mean, I thought this was about the safety of our nation and the war on terror?

It has been about all of those things. The point of democratizing Iraq, among other things, is to produce a future culture that is prosperous and civilized. Such landscapes tend to not be breeding grounds for suicide terrorists. World security is depending on the Middle East to come out of the Biblical age during this day of much easier and more likely WMD access. Don't you think so?

Originally Posted by Omnius Deus

I'm sorry, I have a little bit more self respect than to believe that. A monk burned himself to death in protest of the South Vietnam's dictatorship. We were honestly just choosing the dictator that didn't want to nationalize their industries.

I thought you knew.... We pulled out our forces due to internal political pressure before we got to the point of a North Vietnamese surrender. As a result, South Vietnam is still communist and oppressed. I hope the hippies are happy with that one. However, we did win the Cold War, which was the point.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

Opinions were flying in here, but no one seemed willing to back themselves up, so I found sources for all of you.

If our government were like the Soviet Union or something, being "anti-American" would be a good thing. One way or the other, it is a literal term and it does apply where I used it. No matter what people say about how the term and such terms have been used by this propagandist and that one, it is still a fact that I used the term correctly.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

This is the same reason that the Chinese government cites for its invasion of Tibet.

The difference is that with us, it is true. Watch what ends up becoming of Iraq since we are not caving into the left wing political pressure. I wish South Vietnam could have been so fortunate.

Originally Posted by Sagea

Well, of course we're killing innocent people. How could I not see it before?
Because Al Qaeda and Taliban are innocent people, ya know.

I think 100,000+ dead iraqi civilians might take issue with your post. That says nothing of the hundreds of thousands who are injured or displaced due to the violence.

Originally Posted by Alextanium

I think 100,000+ dead iraqi civilians might take issue with your post. That says nothing of the hundreds of thousands who are injured or displaced due to the violence.

Yep.
We have killed every last single one of them. And of course before we came there there was all happiness and unicorns and butterflies.

Do you really think we are killing them on purpose? What little die at our hands?
Do you really think we didn't accidentally kill some civilians in WWII and WWI?

You people seem a bit idealistic in your expectations.