Blame Israel?

[ChrissyMaria]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RjnvQHWyLE This Rabbi in the video, and his followers are claiming that the Israeli leadership is really not jewish, but rather zionist, which is evil imho. They want to abolish the jewish state, and these are jewish people saying this...I don't agree that the jews don't deserve a country, they do deserve a country, BUT it should have NOT BEEN STOLEN from Palestine. They should relinquish the stolen land, and find free land somewhere, away from all the wacko's in the middle east. I know this may be controversial but I will make this UTTERLY CLEAR. I am not, have never been an anti-semite, so please don't take this thread as an insult to Judaism.. I respect Judaism, but Zionism is just WRONG. There are those who claim the Zionist's are responsible for many of the USA's policies such as the war on terror and iraq..and the future war on Iran the israeli government is dragging us into. Anyways, what's your thoughts on this Rabbi? I think he's a man of courage to speak out against the wrong doing the Israeli Government commits daily.

[Universal Mind]

Religion should never be a criterion for deciding who gets to live on a piece of land. Democracy of equality is the only way. Everything else is bullshit.

[ChrissyMaria]

Not very democratic of a nation to steal land from another.

[nina]

More like...blame the US, who is supporting Israel, giving them money and weapons, turning a blind eye to what the Israelis are doing, giving jews money to move to Israel and occupied territory, etc. And no matter who is controlling our country, the Palestinians are fucked. Republicans: Christian Zionists who want all the Jews to return to Israel for the second coming of Christ lmao. (this is serious btw) Democrats: get lots of money and support from rich influential Jews So the Palestinians are fucked either way, no matter who is running our country. And we run Israel. Israel can bully the Palestinians because they have the greatest super power in the world supporting them. *spits*

[Universal Mind]

Imagine what Palestine would do if they had Israel's nuclear power. But does Israel do it? No. We protect democracy against irrational thuggery.

[dragonoverlord]

We protect democracy against irrational thuggery. Irrational? No this is a cycle thats been going on since 1948 when an Eastern European jewish immigrant state was imposed on Arab muslims and Christians in Palestine. Unfortunately for the West and "israel" they thought the Arabs would just take that imperialist shit but they were wrong and now they are getting their just deserts...People dont forgive and forget too easily. The Palestine/israel conflict is the residue of colonialist indifference and if only for the sake of peace needs to be dismantled and either become a state for all of its citizens (right now its a state for jews but for all the Arabs, Druze and Palestinians under Apartheid like occupation int he West Bank) or it needs to be dismantled by force but the Status Quo's got to change. A country founded on Ethnic Cleansing can never have peace.

[Universal Mind]

Irrational? No this is a cycle thats been going on since 1948 when an Eastern European jewish immigrant state was imposed on Arab muslims and Christians in Palestine. Unfortunately for the West and "israel" they thought the Arabs would just take that imperialist shit but they were wrong and now they are getting their just deserts...People dont forgive and forget too easily. I already know you believe in blowing up kindergartens in Israel just for the purpose of venting anger and because you think a member of a group is automatically responsible for everything anybody else in the group has done. You didn't have to remind me. You would love it if every Israeli were murdered just because... GRRRRRRRRR, us versus them!!! We've been over this too many times. If you have that much of a lack of compassion for innocence and individuality, there probably isn't anything I could say to change your mind. I would like to see you respond to this... Imagine what Palestine would do if they had Israel's nuclear power. But does Israel do it? No. 1. What do you think Iran or Palestine would do with the power to kill every Israeli? 2. Would you be in favor of killing every single Israeli? Why or why not?

[dragonoverlord]

I already know you believe in blowing up kindergartens in Israel just for the purpose of venting anger and because you think a member of a group is automatically responsible for everything anybody else in the group has done. You didn't have to remind me. You would love it if every Israeli were murdered just because... GRRRRRRRRR, us versus them!!! We've been over this too many times. If you have that much of a lack of compassion for innocence and individuality, there probably isn't anything I could say to change your mind. I would like to see you respond to this... My point was that its not irrational it(the conflict) has a root cause that has perpetuated it. The colonalist enterprise which later became israel has become an enemy state of the surronding arab states. And it is a conflict that has been perpetuated since Al Nakba. You make out as if one day they woke up and said hey lets go kill those bastards across the street. Rather its a complex situation with a root cause 1. What do you think Iran or Palestine would do with the power to kill every Israeli? 2. Would you be in favor of killing every single Israeli? Why or why not? 1. Probably lol 2. On the surface i would say yes but even then i dont know if i would be. Extinguishing 6 million lives is a pretty harsh thing to do even if they its the israelies we're talking about. I'd probably need to take a visit in an israely city an walk around for the day and think am i prepared to give the ok to take these peoples lives away? you know to see them as people not to see them as some enemy thing. I would definately seriously consider it but i dont know.....Like i said thats pretty harsh.

[psychology student]

Religion should never be a criterion for deciding who gets to live on a piece of land. Democracy of equality is the only way. Everything else is bullshit. Not very democratic of a nation to steal land from another. Who was there first? Irrational? No this is a cycle thats been going on since 1948 when an Eastern European jewish immigrant state was imposed on Arab muslims and Christians in Palestine. Unfortunately for the West and "israel" they thought the Arabs would just take that imperialist shit but they were wrong and now they are getting their just deserts...People dont forgive and forget too easily. That is the sort of stupid mentality that makes this situation prolonged and violent. The Palestine/israel conflict is the residue of colonialist indifference and if only for the sake of peace needs to be dismantled and either become a state for all of its citizens (right now its a state for jews but for all the Arabs, Druze and Palestinians under Apartheid like occupation int he West Bank) or it needs to be dismantled by force but the Status Quo's got to change. I agree, all Hamas needs to do is recognise Israel as a state, and stop sending in those Kazam rockets. Especially in the short-term as there is profound poverty in Palestine, and we need to get full supplies in there; and yet Hamas just loves its pride.

[Universal Mind]

Who was there first? Individuals who are no longer living. A religion is not an individual.

[psychology student]

Individuals who are no longer living. A religion is not an individual. So when all the Palestininans who were there when it was taken, die of old age: will they have no right to the land?

[dragonoverlord]

I agree, all Hamas needs to do is recognise Israel as a state, and stop sending in those Kazam rockets. Especially in the short-term as there is profound poverty in Palestine, and we need to get full supplies in there; and yet Hamas just loves its pride. Qa'ssam not Kazam.....Hamas is not very bright. Did you see those rockets of theres? they need an upgrade. With Qa'ssam rockets why bother even fight lol.

[Universal Mind]

So when all the Palestininans who were there when it was taken, die of old age: will they have no right to the land? I think they should all have rights to the land. Anybody who lost property unjustly should be recompensated by the Iraeli government. It should have never happened. However, they should claim it now. Their great great grandchildren should not be able to show up in 140 years and get money for it.

[psychology student]

Qa'ssam not Kazam.....Hamas is not very bright. Did you see those rockets of theres? they need an upgrade. With Qa'ssam rockets why bother even fight lol. Yea, but every now and then someone dies. Hamas intends to hit civilians.

[psychology student]

I think they should all have rights to the land. Anybody who lost property unjustly should be recompensated by the Iraeli government. It should have never happened. However, they should claim it now. Their great great grandchildren should not be able to show up in 140 years and get money for it. But they won't give it up now. There can only be a compromise.

[Universal Mind]

2. On the surface i would say yes but even then i dont know if i would be. Extinguishing 6 million lives is a pretty harsh thing to do even if they its the israelies we're talking about. I'd probably need to take a visit in an israely city an walk around for the day and think am i prepared to give the ok to take these peoples lives away? you know to see them as people not to see them as some enemy thing. I would definately seriously consider it but i dont know.....Like i said thats pretty harsh. It's harsh to kill any of them. I really think you should spend time in Israel. I bet it would give you a completely different perspective. You would probably think certain Muslims were screwed out of their land in 1948, and I think that too, but you would probably start seeing the Israelis more as people and having a better understanding of the perspectives of the 2008 Israelis. But they won't give it up now. There can only be a compromise. Things have gotten so screwed up that it would have to come in the form of money. Kicking people out of the houses that their grandparents were born in would be just like what happened to those Arabs in 1948.

[ChrissyMaria]

Bottom line is that the Palestinians got fucked over.

[Liquidnine]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrWgu...eature=related Mahmoud Ahmadinejad seems to have similar views as that Rabbi. But hypothetically, imagine yourself as an American 10 years in the future. Imagine Native Americans do the same thing to you as the Israelis have done to the Palestinians. Would that be okay?

[Universal Mind]

As long as too many people are talking about land rights while dividing themselves into groups as large as "Jews" and "Palestinians", there is going to be war. It will go on forever unless enough people finally say, "Hey, we're all individuals. Let's live together and have a fair democracy that treats our religions equally." Short of that, there is only going to be war.

[ChrissyMaria]

War will always be around because of the irrational nature of human behavior. Humans will jump to conclusions and act on impulse rather then logic. When human beings learn to think before they act or speak, the world will be a MUCH safer place, War's won't go away but we can decrease the frequency and range of wars through education and peace. But we all know that won't happen under the current world leadership (us,uk,cdn, EU....etc) Most world leaders claim to be against war, while they profit from it.

[Universal Mind]

War will always be around because of the irrational nature of human behavior. Humans will jump to conclusions and act on impulse rather then logic. I was talking specifically about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. It is the us and them mentality that keeps it alive.

[ChrissyMaria]

I was talking specifically about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. It is the us and them mentality that keeps it alive. Oh yea well your right, Israeli's think Palestinians are apes, and vice versa Ignorance isn't bliss.

[juroara]

OMG!! THE MASHED POTATOES ARE MIXING WITH THE STEAK! WHAT WILL I EVER DO! ONE MUST BE DESTROYED! but no, seriously. we can no longer live in a world where nations can live divided as if another nation doesn't exist. we can no longer live in a world where a nation is decided and based on religion. You are BORN to a land, then you are native to it. Who has the right to decide you are not from the land you are born to? And who has the right to deny the lands you ancestry came from and tell you to piss off? No outsider can resolve the situation in the middle east. Only the middle east can resolve its own problem, or they will destroy themselves. The underlining problem is they think of each other as separate people, separate races even, rather than recognizing they are not. The middle east has a great potential if it can GET OVER its differences and unite as one nation. A house divided falls.

[Half/Dreaming]

The middle east has a great potential if it can GET OVER its differences and unite as one nation. A house divided falls. Not as long as religion exists.

[Universal Mind]

Not as long as religion exists. Imagine what would happen to the Middle East if suddenly everybody there stopped believing in God.