Thread: Bush takes another step backwards

No, you don't understand the process. This is exactly what I mean. If they are not absolutely guilty, BEYOND what it takes to convict somebody in the United States, they are released by our unit on the spot. There is no chance for the shady higher ups to get their hands on the EPW's. That only comes later, with HVT's (high value targets).

The evidence is purely physical, ie bomb making material or several AK47s and RPG's etc etc. We are the average joes. We have no interest in top secret detaining for information or anything like that. If they do nothing wrong, they are released. Also, it is MANDATORY that pictures of the evidence are included in the arrest. If photographs are absent, the detainee is released.

If they ARE guilty, with pure physical evidence AND photographs to back it up, then away they go. And I don't give a shit where they go or what happens to them. Maybe if your friends had been blown up like mine have you would understand that statement.

All I'm saying is that you don't understand how the EPW system works, and you shouldn't pretend that you do.

Originally Posted by Half/Dreaming

If they ARE guilty, with pure physical evidence AND photographs to back it up, then away they go. And I don't give a shit where they go or what happens to them. Maybe if your friends had been blown up like mine have you would understand that statement.

All I'm saying is that you don't understand how the EPW system works, and you shouldn't pretend that you do.

I may not understand the intricacies of the that particular system, but I can see quite clearly the problem with it as you have outlined it.

Ever notice how finding "evidence" is not enough to win a normal court trial? Ever notice that those suspected of crimes get something called "due process?" Ever heard the phrase "innocent until proven guilty?" Ever wonder why judges are not also juries?

"Trust me, we're doing it right" instills absolutely no confidence in anyone.

Should you sign a contract without reading the fine print if the other party says "trust me?" I know I won't.

Originally Posted by Half/Dreaming

If you, or anyone you know, has been arrested from wire tapping, please let me know. Because I have never heard of such stories.

And who gives a fuck about the Hajji at Guantanamo Bay. We don't just arrest innocent Arabs for the hell of it. TRUST ME. We go through High Value Target and target analysis training, and believe me, if the have no reason to be shipped away, they are let free back into the sandbox.

But I'm sure you will believe whatever suits you best, and not the word of somebody who actually deals with this shit. It causes you sexual pleasure to assume there is a conspiracy.

Originally Posted by Half/Dreaming

No, you don't understand the process. This is exactly what I mean. If they are not absolutely guilty, BEYOND what it takes to convict somebody in the United States, they are released by our unit on the spot. There is no chance for the shady higher ups to get their hands on the EPW's. That only comes later, with HVT's (high value targets).

The evidence is purely physical, ie bomb making material or several AK47s and RPG's etc etc. We are the average joes. We have no interest in top secret detaining for information or anything like that. If they do nothing wrong, they are released. Also, it is MANDATORY that pictures of the evidence are included in the arrest. If photographs are absent, the detainee is released.

If they ARE guilty, with pure physical evidence AND photographs to back it up, then away they go. And I don't give a shit where they go or what happens to them. Maybe if your friends had been blown up like mine have you would understand that statement.

All I'm saying is that you don't understand how the EPW system works, and you shouldn't pretend that you do.

You know you are so fucking naive that it astounds me. Now I never want to resort to Ad hominem remarks, but you just make me sick. Quit, watching, fucking, Fox news, and, look, at, what, the, fuck, is, really, going, on.

Originally Posted by harvey123456

You know you are so fucking naive that it astounds me. Now I never want to resort to Ad hominem remarks, but you just make me sick. Quit, watching, fucking, Fox news, and, look, at, what, the, fuck, is, really, going, on.

I don't watch Fox News, youngling. Are you even aware what my occupation is? What makes you more qualified to discuss this topic than I am?

Ninja, "warrants" don't exist in a warzone. Are you suggesting that if we see a dude fire at us with an RPG, and then walk in his front door, that we have to go back to the FOB to get a warrant before we can raid the house?

Once again, TRUST ME. Beyond getting blown up, our biggest issue and burdon is getting enough evidence to keep a detainee. Do even know about the figerprinting and facial recognition systems we put the detainees through? Probably not. Link to follow.

Originally Posted by Half/Dreaming

Ninja, "warrants" don't exist in a warzone. Are you suggesting that if we see a dude fire at us with an RPG, and then walk in his front door, that we have to go back to the FOB to get a warrant before we can raid the house?

But... wiretapping happens in places other than warzones. I assume that the United States of America is not currently suffering from an Iraq style insurgency problem?

I trust my present government. I'm sure that appropriate safeguards are in place to make sure that the system is rarely ever used for the wrong reasons and that corruption is often prevented.

However, in the past, corruption has happened in democratic systems (i.e. Watergate, the election of the Nazis, or (a few months ago) the "bugging" of a British MP. Because power can sometimes fall into the hands of the unscrupulous, I think it is best if there are appropriate checks and balances in place.

Obama wont be much better. Be ready to be disappointed at how little we matter in this election.

I've been reading about a possible great depression of 2008 or 2009, I think something big is going to happen, and it scares me to death.

Originally Posted by guerilla

I've been reading about a possible great depression of 2008 or 2009, I think something big is going to happen, and it scares me to death.

It shouldn't scare you. This will inevitable create a class consciousness, like those of the early 20th century. It will be the perfect time for a peoples revolution. This could be good. Sort of like how the first World War also helped trigger the Russian revolution and was partially responsible for the creation of the Soviet Union.

Its not just this election, every election since woodrow wilson has been a choice for the status quo. Bob Barr or Ron Paul are the only real choices.

Ron Paul was honest, but he would have wrecked the country as well.

Barr says we are fastly approaching the point of no return, where america is lost, for good.

America wont matter in the long run. A new, and hopefully better, country should come into existence.

Originally Posted by Harrycombs

Obama wont be much better. Be ready to be disappointed at how little we matter in this election.

Agreed.

Its not just this election, every election since woodrow wilson has been a choice for the status quo. Bob Barr or Ron Paul are the only real choices.

Barr says we are fastly approaching the point of no return, where america is lost, for good.

Originally Posted by Half/Dreaming

No, you don't understand the process. This is exactly what I mean. If they are not absolutely guilty, BEYOND what it takes to convict somebody in the United States, they are released by our unit on the spot. There is no chance for the shady higher ups to get their hands on the EPW's. That only comes later, with HVT's (high value targets).

The evidence is purely physical, ie bomb making material or several AK47s and RPG's etc etc. We are the average joes. We have no interest in top secret detaining for information or anything like that. If they do nothing wrong, they are released. Also, it is MANDATORY that pictures of the evidence are included in the arrest. If photographs are absent, the detainee is released.

If they ARE guilty, with pure physical evidence AND photographs to back it up, then away they go. And I don't give a shit where they go or what happens to them. Maybe if your friends had been blown up like mine have you would understand that statement.

All I'm saying is that you don't understand how the EPW system works, and you shouldn't pretend that you do.

I don't pretend I understand, I'm just saying what else am I supposed to believe? You know how much better you just made me feel by explaining that? Why can't every American hear this explanation? There should be a paper trail for every arrest so everyone can remain accountable, it doesn't mean the American people need to see it right away, but those doing this stuff should assume it will be released publicly so they know they aren't allowed any wiggle room. You know, declassification on information that would not benefit any major terrorist organizations such as, "We have arrested the following people for holding bomb making materials and being in contact with the following known terrorist organizers" and such.

Without any transparency, what are people going to do except get worried? I mean, terrorist is an umbrella term that can cover a lot of people, and as long as it goes on behind the scenes with no information released publicly, of course people are going to get paranoid.

Originally Posted by Omnius Deus

I don't pretend I understand, I'm just saying what else am I supposed to believe? You know how much better you just made me feel by explaining that? Why can't every American hear this explanation? There should be a paper trail for every arrest so everyone can remain accountable, it doesn't mean the American people need to see it right away, but those doing this stuff should assume it will be released publicly so they know they aren't allowed any wiggle room. You know, declassification on information that would not benefit any major terrorist organizations such as, "We have arrested the following people for holding bomb making materials and being in contact with the following known terrorist organizers" and such.

Without any transparency, what are people going to do except get worried? I mean, terrorist is an umbrella term that can cover a lot of people, and as long as it goes on behind the scenes with no information released publicly, of course people are going to get paranoid.

I obviously misjudged your standpoint, and I apologize.

We have such a hard time with this. Did you know that we can't even put black bags over the detainee's heads anymore because too many of them were getting claustrophobic and freaking out? I know SO many examples of soldiers who are in jail now because of mistreating detainees. MISTREATING, NOT TORTURE. I am talking about stuff like a single punch during the arrest process, or keeping them on the ground too long. Or not giving them enough water. Simple shit. We are kept under more control than they are.

And thats the way it should be.

Originally Posted by Half/Dreaming

Or not giving them enough water. Simple shit.

Originally Posted by Half/Dreaming

I know SO many examples of soldiers who are in jail now because of mistreating detainees. MISTREATING, NOT TORTURE. I am talking about stuff like a single punch during the arrest process, or keeping them on the ground too long. Or not giving them enough water. Simple shit. We are kept under more control than they are.

Wow. I'm really glad to hear that. Maybe things are getting better over there then.

Harrycombs. Thankyou for keeping Marxism alive. We need guys like you. I don't believe America is ready for class consciousness as you think of it. A depression may cause class collaboration if anything. There's too many diversions in place for facing the issues of class. Its just my opinion, but I think America will survive and do well for decades to come.

Keep believing, though. The West is running low on Marxists.

Originally Posted by apachama

I don't believe America is ready for class consciousness as you think of it. A depression may cause class collaboration if anything. There's too many diversions in place for facing the issues of class. Its just my opinion, but I think America will survive and do well for decades to come.

The United States will have quite a bit of trouble to keep the public believing in the American Dream if there is a depression though. I guess we'll see. People are still acting like sheep after going through Bush

NWO.

What do you mean?

Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix

Taking artistic family picture. Not torture.



Spiritual openness with pin the tail on the donkey play time with some recreational LSD. Not torture. Mistaken mistreatment.



Pin the tail on donkey family picture with slight mistreatement. Not torture.




Iraqi CO2 renewable energy initiate scheme to fight climate change. Not Electrocution.




Putting a dog lead on their head and dragging them around. Simple things. Not even a bag over his head anymore. Can't even do that, and simple things like not giving them water



It was such a hard time getting accused of torture

Hahaha! Thats awesome! ITS SO AWESOME BECAUSE I HAVENT SEEN THOSE PICTURES IN SEVERAL YEARS. Do you catch my drift? SEVERAL YEARS SINCE THAT TOOK PLACE.

Once again, you are a troll. You are letting a few soldiers represent the entire armed forces. That would be like me assuming everyone from your hometown is just as big of a douchebag as you are. Secondly, that was in a prison camp, NOT IN THE FIELD IN IRAQ. I'm talking about what happens in the field, not what happens in the rear.

Nevertheless, those soldiers got what they deserved. They are all in jail now for what they did, just where they should be.

But thanks Minervas! I really haven't seen those pictures in years, and I'm glad you put that collage together for me....to prove absolutely nothing...but it was thoughtful. And funny!

Originally Posted by Half/Dreaming

MISTREATING, NOT TORTURE.

Taking family picture for an art exhibition. Not torture.



Spiritual openness with pin the tail on the donkey play time with some recreational LSD. Not torture. Mistaken mistreatment and only a few overdoses.



Pin the tail on donkey family picture with slight mistreatement. Not torture.




Iraqi CO2 renewable energy initiate scheme to fight climate change. Not Electrocution.




Putting a dog lead on their head and dragging them around. Simple things. Not even a bag over his head anymore. Can't even do that, and simple things like not giving them water



It was such a hard time getting accused of torture

Originally Posted by Half/Dreaming

a single punch during the arrest process, or keeping them on the ground too long. Or not giving them enough water. Simple shit. We are kept under more control than they are.

I know I don't understand the bid deal

Originally Posted by HalfDreaming

We have such a hard time with this. Did you know that we can't even put black bags over the detainee's heads anymore because too many of them were getting claustrophobic and freaking out?

I know what's next? Can you believe it? Next thing you know they'll want freedom.