Thread: Third parties, who do you like more in the election

Universal Health Care is very slow. There was a woman who was raped in Wales 2 years ago. Since then she has not been able to walk, and has not been able to see a specialist. She finally got approved to see a specialist by her normal doctor... 22 weeks from now.

Sounds like she's getting the help she deserves to me!

Originally Posted by snoop

Universal Health Care is very slow. There was a woman who was raped in Wales 2 years ago. Since then she has not been able to walk, and has not been able to see a specialist. She finally got approved to see a specialist by her normal doctor... 22 weeks from now.

Sounds like she's getting the help she deserves to me!

you make it sound like the option is

universal or private

when in actuality the option FOR THE US IS

universal or NOTHING

just because universal health care doesn't work in one place doesn't mean it will be the same system or format here. private health care isn't going anywhere. although universal is not as good as private - the option for the poor is NOTHING

Originally Posted by juroara

you make it sound like the option is

universal or private

when in actuality the option FOR THE US IS

universal or NOTHING

just because universal health care doesn't work in one place doesn't mean it will be the same system or format here. private health care isn't going anywhere. although universal is not as good as private - the option for the poor is NOTHING

Even though private health care isn't the best, you are misrepresenting it. The poor get medicaid and medicare; they still get treated.

Originally Posted by snoop

Even though private health care isn't the best, you are misrepresenting it. The poor get medicaid and medicare; they still get treated.

I'm afraid you haven't been following this very closely. Millions of Americans do not have access to insurance.

I still fail to see how that that's my fault and I should pay for it. If I feel like giving to charity, that's one thing, but forcing me to pay for others is different. The whole redistribution-of-wealth thing doesn't sit well for me.

Originally Posted by snoop

I still fail to see how that that's my fault and I should pay for it. If I feel like giving to charity, that's one thing, but forcing me to pay for others is different. The whole redistribution-of-wealth thing doesn't sit well for me.

It's called building a community and protecting it.

My tax dollars help build roads that I never drive on. Should I complain about that? Or should I understand that other people's tax dollars pay to have mail delivered to my house, whether anybody ever sends them a letter or not.

My tax dollars help pay for child protection services, but I have no children to protect. Should that bug me? Not if I remember that other people's tax dollars pay to keep my local library in business, whether or not they even know how to read.

This is how towns, states, and countries are built. If everything were pay-for-yourself, society goes out the window.

Originally Posted by snoop

I still fail to see how that that's my fault and I should pay for it. If I feel like giving to charity, that's one thing, but forcing me to pay for others is different. The whole redistribution-of-wealth thing doesn't sit well for me.

redistribution of wealth bothers you?

do you have any idea how much a bugger flipper MAKES monetary wise for their industry, an HOUR, in comparison to how much they actually get paid for their work?

if the distribution of wealth was fair, that is you get paid for your fair share, NO ONE WOULD BE POOR

we have poor because someone on top, CEOs especially, think their employees are worth CRAP

do you realize the purpose of MINIMUM WAGE is to keep people off the streets? is to ensure that the working man makes enough money to pay his bills? is to ensure, that no working man is in POVERTY?

minimum wage no longer meets the minimum standard to keep you above poverty. rather, it keeps you IN POVERTY because you are constantly in dept - or living with mom and dad.

my sister used to have your attitude. used to get angry at the thought of some poor jobless slob getting a penny of her hard income money. that was until, she herself was jobless and desperately looking for a job for months. that was until, her credit cards bounced and she was hundreds of dollars in dept, having done nothing wrong. until you yourself hit rock bottom, you will never know how easy it is for ANYONE to be in a position where they find themselves without a job. Or even in a transitional shitty job that doesn't pay its worth, leaving you in dept because of prior bills you can no longer afford. so just a warning. before passing judgment on poor Americans, look in the mirror.

we are first world country. not a shitty third world starving country. our minimum standard of living, is not a box and one meal a week. this is a first world country, even poor have to pay gas. this is a first world country, most people still need cars to get to work. you need electricity, running and clean water. this is a first world country, YOU SHOULD HAVE HEALTH INSURANCE.

how much money do you have to pay to be protected by police? whether or not you pay taxes, you are protected. that is your right as an American citizen. does that piss you off as well? that someone who doesn't pay taxes still has those rights??? welcome to a first world country. welcome to the new millennium. health insurance should also be a RIGHT.

if you don't want your money to help poor americans everywhere. then start demanding why minimum wage isn't functioning. why minimum wage isn't gauranteeing an income level that can afford all the necessities of American living, including health insurance. realize, if minimum wage was doing its job, we wouldn't even need food stamps!!!

Originally Posted by juroara

redistribution of wealth bothers you?

do you have any idea how much a bugger flipper MAKES monetary wise for their industry, an HOUR, in comparison to how much they actually get paid for their work?

if the distribution of wealth was fair, that is you get paid for your fair share, NO ONE WOULD BE POOR

If a person owns a company, all of that is his right. He is not obligated to even hire anybody or even to have a business in the first place. Business owners are shallow, greedy assholes in most cases. But guess what. It is that quality that makes the business work. If you redistribute wealth too much, the business owners quit caring about even having businesses, and then things suck for everybody. That is why socialism is history's failure story and capitalism is history's success story.

Our "poor" aren't really poor. Tons of them are fat, and pretty much all of them have cars, cell phones, and entertainment systems. Do you know why our "poor" are so rich? Because of capitalism.

Originally Posted by snoop

Universal Health Care is very slow. There was a woman who was raped in Wales 2 years ago. Since then she has not been able to walk, and has not been able to see a specialist. She finally got approved to see a specialist by her normal doctor... 22 weeks from now.

Sounds like she's getting the help she deserves to me!

That is not what I call "protection", but forcing the entire country to live like that is what I call "robbery".

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

That is not what I call "protection", but forcing the entire country to live like that is what I call "robbery".

Universal Healthcare is very slow, which makes it very impractical. There are other ways to set up healthcare so that everyone receives treatment, but don't have to wait 2 years to see a specialist. That is why I don't support Universal Healthcare.

Also, part of my point with that was juroara was acting like, if we had Universal Healthcare, that person that died of cancer would not have died of cancer, but if you look at how slow Universal Healthcare is, you would see that the person that died would have died anyway.

Originally Posted by snoop

Universal Healthcare is very slow, which makes it very impractical.

A tenacious myth with very little supporting evidence save a few anecdotes.

Originally Posted by skysaw

A tenacious myth with very little supporting evidence save a few anecdotes.

That is not so. My dad has a degenerative back disease, and he is a member of a forum for people with problems with their backs and the like. He knows several members from Canada that would like to move to America because it takes them forever to see a specialist.

Can you tell me you honestly know several people with serious diseases that would argue that the opposite were true?

Don't give me shit about supporting evidence unless you give me some. Please provide me with the people mentioned above, or some links to unbiased web sources.

For the sake of continuing the conversation in standard English, please allow me to point out a standard definition:

Anecdotal
-adjective
Based on personal observation, case study reports, or random investigations rather than systematic scientific evaluation: anecdotal evidence.

Originally Posted by snoop

My dad has a degenerative back disease, and he is a member of a forum for people with problems with their backs and the like.

This is anecdotal

He knows several members from Canada that would like to move to America because it takes them forever to see a specialist.

Again, anecdotal

Can you tell me you honestly know several people with serious diseases that would argue that the opposite were true?

A request for anecdotal evidence

It's your claim to prove. Please do it without anecdotal evidence. A scientific study or poll usually does the trick.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=MODV9pdViIA&feature=related