Thread: Is america a free country?

Originally Posted by ranma187

We are told we live in a "Democracy". According to etymology "Democracy" is made up of two Greek words. "Demos" meaning "The people, or Mob". And Cracy "rule of". So Democracy means "Rule of the people"

I would more correctly say We live in a Monecracy. Rule of The Money!
Money= Power in a monecracy. As you all know Power corrupts. And Ultimate power corrupts Absolutely.

We may call ourselves democratic be we are still a republic...

Though I might add that in modern times the country I live in considers ourselves to be a democratic republic.

Originally Posted by Half/Dreaming

Pathetic, spoiled spectators. None of you understand the military or what we do. You complain and complain about how hard your lives are and how the government oppresses you. You have no idea what oppression is. NO fucking idea.

Guerilla, stop pretending to have ANY idea what is going on in Iraq or what the Iraqi's mindset is. You say insurgents are just Iraqi citizens that are pissed at us? Bullshit. There are everything from Eqyptians to Chechnians fighting in Iraq. And as for precision bombs, they are so accurate that not only can they hit a target house, they can hit a certain room within that house. They are as precise as the intel the fighter pilot gets.

And as for America, we have it so easy. Yea, we brag about being the representation of freedom, while we might be the most free. So what? Stop being pampered.

The military is made up of good people who have been deceived. People in the military beleive that they are fighting to protect our freedoms. In what way has the war in Iraq made this world any more free? Iraq is not a free country, its in worse shape now than before. But besides that, we started a war for no reason.

I agree with you about most americans being spoiled though. We are so used to doing things the easy way. So, when it comes to freedom we choose to act childish and fight, rather than talk things out the difficult way.

Originally Posted by stonedape

The military is made up of good people who have been deceived. People in the military beleive that they are fighting to protect our freedoms. In what way has the war in Iraq made this world any more free? Iraq is not a free country, its in worse shape now than before. But besides that, we started a war for no reason.

I agree with you about most americans being spoiled though. We are so used to doing things the easy way. So, when it comes to freedom we choose to act childish and fight, rather than talk things out the difficult way.

How is Iraq worse now than it was? It's free from a tyrant now.

Iraq is fucked up. Theres a lot of violence there. Are more Iraqis dead because of the war?

Besides that you can't start a war because there is a tyrant in control of that country. You would say Iraqis have more freedom now than before we started a war in their country?

Originally Posted by stonedape

Iraq is fucked up. Theres a lot of violence there. Are more Iraqis dead because of the war?

Besides that you can't start a war because there is a tyrant in control of that country. You would say Iraqis have more freedom now than before we started a war in their country?

Considering Saddam committed genocide on Iraqi Kurds, people were dieing before the war, and there was lots of violence before also.

Yes, they have more freedom now than before.

Yes but violdnce, genocide, and war are all bad. In what way did we make any good? Before there was a dictator, now only chaos. So I guess you right, there is more freedom there because the government is beyond retarted and has no way of establishing peace in the next few years. I'm sure Iraqis love all the new freedoms of military occupation.

How are they more free? Saddam is not a good enough reason to start a war. There are still plenty of dictators and genocides which we do nothing about. You do realize that we started a war? This is kinda the first time america just went out and attacked some country.

This war was over oil, not Freedom.

Originally Posted by Half/Dreaming

None of you understand the military or what we do

Awww Don't say that. Congratulations on your new robot.

OMG!!
This is like listening to bunch of toddlers at preschool arguing about why mummy and daddy wont let you play outside on the road... For your own fucking protection you shortsighted idiots!!

Ill give to you in a nutshell; Wake up from your delusions and smell the coffee! There will never be true 'freedom', there has never been true 'freedom'. We sacrifice a small amount of our freedom for our own protection. If you don't like that go and set up your own 'free' society or cultivation with no leader, no hierarchy and no laws. Then you could wait for all the rapists, murders and child molesters to come and join the party, they would love the no laws, 'free' society!

Sounds like another angry person who has no confidence in human potential. You are the short sited one if you think freedom is impossible. I don't need the law to govern myself and I'm not going to use the police as a teddy bear against criminals. Anyone can take the law into their own hands and I encourage it. The problem of Rapists, murders and child molesters is not solved. So it doesn't work.

A new more intelligent way will eliminate the threat. I am that way and others that agree with me.

How do people honestly support the war in Iraq??? If you wanna disagree with the freedom thing then fine. But we started a war in Iraq for no good reason. I have friends in the millitary that I would rather not have die in a war over oil.

Why are you so scared? Life is not that dangerous.

Yeah I don't know why he is so frighten either. It's not fine to disagree with freedom though.

Originally Posted by Half/Dreaming

Pathetic, spoiled spectators. None of you understand the military or what we do. You complain and complain about how hard your lives are and how the government oppresses you. You have no idea what oppression is. NO fucking idea.

Guerilla, stop pretending to have ANY idea what is going on in Iraq or what the Iraqi's mindset is. You say insurgents are just Iraqi citizens that are pissed at us? Bullshit. There are everything from Eqyptians to Chechnians fighting in Iraq. And as for precision bombs, they are so accurate that not only can they hit a target house, they can hit a certain room within that house. They are as precise as the intel the fighter pilot gets.

And as for America, we have it so easy. Yea, we brag about being the representation of freedom, while we might be the most free. So what? Stop being pampered.

Go fuck yourself, murderer.

Half/Dreaming if they are spectators you are part of the problem actively. Your decisions have become someone else's decisions. If anyone is pampered it's you who followers orders and never developed the responsibility of thinking independently. You have no idea what independent thinking involves. So you joined the army which takes that particular burden away from you. But it's only part time scouts is it?

Hold on. Stop attacking the millitary. It only encourages them. If you are going to debate someone about war, you have allow them try to justify the war. This is almost impossible, as there are very few situations which war needs to be fought. In the case of the Iraq war, we attacked them on the basis of WMDs. 1)This is not enough evidence to start a war, as many countries have WMDs and we do not attack them. 2)Iraq didn't even have WMDs.

Stop with all the name calling. If you disagree with what someone says, attack their words, not them.

Stop attacking the millitary

I don't attack the military the military attacks me. I could have being living in Iraq when they bombed it. I could be dead like the other civilians. It could have being you. We could be dead because of them. Don't think they wouldn't kill us.

If Half/Dreaming grew up into the army and he was ordered to shoot us he would murder us.

Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix

I don't attack the military the military attacks me. I could have being living in Iraq when they bombed it. I could be dead like the other civilians. It could have being you. We could be dead because of them. Don't think they wouldn't kill us.

If Half/Dreaming grew up into the army and he was ordered to shoot us he would murder us.

Exactly my point. He was thrown into a confusing spot where most people supporte the millitary and violence. It's extremely hard to understand non violence coming from a background of violence. He beleives he is fighting for freedom. He has been deceived. Don't attack him, attack that which deceives him and show him the way to peace. Calling names only creates more anger.

Stonedape/minervas pheonix I think the only ones decieved here are you two. One's a pothead, and the other is a woman.

Labes and brands. Why do you feel the need to label everything and put it in a neat little so you can feel safe? I'm not a pothead, I'm a human being who smokes pot. Where is the relvence of any of this to freedom or war? Let's try to stay on topic, maybe discuss something meaningful.

Calling names only creates more anger.

I didn't call him any names though.

Stonedape/minervas pheonix I think the only ones decieved here are you two. One's a pothead, and the other is a woman.

How does that make me deceived because I'm a woman?

Originally Posted by stonedape

Yes but violdnce, genocide, and war are all bad. In what way did we make any good? Before there was a dictator, now only chaos. So I guess you right, there is more freedom there because the government is beyond retarted and has no way of establishing peace in the next few years. I'm sure Iraqis love all the new freedoms of military occupation.

How are they more free? Saddam is not a good enough reason to start a war. There are still plenty of dictators and genocides which we do nothing about. You do realize that we started a war? This is kinda the first time america just went out and attacked some country.

This war was over oil, not Freedom.

I never said it was over freedom.

How are they more free? There's no longer a dictator over them. The fact that there are more dictators causing genocide in the world has nothing to do with Iraq's freedom.

Originally Posted by stonedape

Before there was a dictator, now only chaos.

So you don't believe Saddam killing Iraqi Kurds in his own country was chaos?

I'm sure if you went to Iraq and asked them if they like the government they have now or a tyrant like Saddam better, they'd pick the government now. This type of government is new to them and will obviously take time getting used to, you can't perfect something like that quickly.

As for why the war was started in Iraq, as far as I'm concerned, is for the Golf War embarrassment Bush Sr. went through, and Bush wanted revenge.


http://www.crrange.com/wall160.html

However, in his recent speech before the United Nations, President Bush revealed the real reason we invaded Iraq. He said plainly that the reason we invaded Iraq was "to defend the peace and the credibility of the United Nations."

Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix
I don't need the law to govern myself and I'm not going to use the police as a teddy bear against criminals. Anyone can take the law into their own hands and I encourage it.

What...your going to go all vigilantly on us...? Like that would help anybody, 'Yea, lets all go out, buy guns and start shooting the people who we think (like we are all holy and mighty) have made a mess of their lives. Without any trial or any Attorney. Just BANG, your dead 'cause you pissed me off', as if that's going to mend our 'broken' society' that you talk of so haphazardly.

Originally Posted by stonedape
If you wanna disagree with the freedom thing then fine.

Thank you i agree!

Originally Posted by Minervas Phoenix
I don't attack the military the military attacks me. I could have being living in Iraq when they bombed it. I could be dead like the other civilians. It could have being you. We could be dead because of them.

Ha, so many flaws in that argument 'could have, could be'. Thats an insult to the people who 'were', the people who 'are'. The only reason why you weren't and aren't is because your sitting there, helpless and so unaware of whats happening around you, under the protection of your government!! Well, poor you, having to sacrifice a small amount of freedom for your safety and life!

the other is a woman.

BANG, your dead 'cause you pissed me off'

That's not my code of conduct. Is it yours? The government is not my protection. Is it yours?

Just because I said I could be murdered by the military who do go 'bang your dead caused you pissed me off'. Naming the actual threat is not an insult to dead people who have being the victims of them.

If you don't smarten up you will be the dung fertilizer for the new society to grow.

Originally Posted by nitsuJ

How are they more free? There's no longer a dictator over them. The fact that there are more dictators causing genocide in the world has nothing to do with Iraq's freedom.

My point is you can't start a war just because that country is controlled by a dictator. You need more of a reason to START A WAR.

Originally Posted by nitsuJ

I'm sure if you went to Iraq and asked them if they like the government they have now or a tyrant like Saddam better, they'd pick the government now. This type of government is new to them and will obviously take time getting used to, you can't perfect something like that quickly.

The current Iraqi government has no power. The country is in a military state. I'd rather live under a dictator than in a military state where you have to worry about your house being bombed or your family being killed. If we were going to do something to help Iraq then we should have done something useful, not start a war. If this was over saddam we could have just killed him. We didn't have to start a war.

Originally Posted by nitsuJ

As for why the war was started in Iraq, as far as I'm concerned, is for the Golf War embarrassment Bush Sr. went through, and Bush wanted revenge.

So you support a war over vengence? What a waste of life, how can you support something like this?