Thread: guns

Very bad. Guns should be totally illegal for anything other than hunting purposes, and a license must be otained that requires a background check and a psychological assesment.

Think of the horiffic number of gun crimes in America. Think of how many kids have died, how many family members have accidentally being shot, how many innocent people have died. Even the guilty people shouldn't be given the power to kill eachother.

Now think of somewhere like the UK, where guns are illegal except for hunting purposes. Practically inconsequential death rate from gun crimes; maybe one per month. It's still not the perfect system (you can still get your hands on guns) but it's a hell of a lot better than in America.

So you want the freedom to have a gun. It's your right. But is any freedom worth such a massive loss of innocent life? For me, the answer is pretty obvious.

Originally Posted by Pensive Patrick

Think of how many kids have died, how many family members have accidentally being shot, how many innocent people have died.

Kids and innocent people have been run over by cars. We should ban cars?

So you want the freedom to have a gun. It's your right. But is any freedom worth such a massive loss of innocent life? For me, the answer is pretty obvious.

For me too, it is yes. Frankly, people dieing unnatural deaths is a good indicator of a free society. "Innocent" people die of drugs. That doesn't mean that drugs should be illegal. Whenever something remotely dangerous is legal, lives will be lost. To be quite honest, lives will be lost either way, because criminals don't care about the law. Banning dangerous things is not a solution, it is totalitarian.

The point of the government isn't to make sure that nobody dies. That goal is incompatible with a free society. If dangerous things are legal and that means more people die then OK. Since when is everybody so fixated on creating this wonderful place of honey and elves where nobody ever dies and there never is any form of conflict? Hate to break it to you, but that's not what life is like. Health shouldn't be the number 1 priority in politics, you're gonna end up in a totalitarian society.

Meh, I don't see the need for hunters to have guns, so I think that the only people who should get guns are police officers. I know bad people will inevitably (sp) get them, but there will be Far Less. I mean, there are non-leathal solutions for defence.

Originally Posted by Serkat

Kids and innocent people have been run over by cars. We should ban cars?

Guns don't help you get around.

For me too, it is yes. Frankly, people dieing unnatural deaths is a good indicator of a free society. "Innocent" people die of drugs. That doesn't mean that drugs should be illegal. Whenever something remotely dangerous is legal, lives will be lost. To be quite honest, lives will be lost either way, because criminals don't care about the law. Banning dangerous things is not a solution, it is totalitarian.

The point of the government isn't to make sure that nobody dies. That goal is incompatible with a free society. If dangerous things are legal and that means more people die then OK. Since when is everybody so fixated on creating this wonderful place of honey and elves where nobody ever dies and there never is any form of conflict? Hate to break it to you, but that's not what life is like. Health shouldn't be the number 1 priority in politics, you're gonna end up in a totalitarian society.

I would be a strong supporter of totalitarian society, so obviously our fundamental beliefs clash spectacularily here. It would be pointless to continue an argument.

I'm glad theres people in texas burrying guns right now. Obviously we are gonna need them.

I already posted this in another thread but it's really funny so I'm gonna do it again. This is an excerpt from the Guns and Dope Parties website. http://www.maybelogic.com/gunsanddopeparty/

GUNS and DOCTORS

a. The number of physicians in the United States is 700,000

b. Accidental deaths caused by Physicians per year is 120,000.

c. Accidental deaths per physician is 0.171. (US Dept. of Health &
Human Services)

THINK ABOUT THIS:

a. The number of gun owners in the US is 80,000,000 (yes, eighty- million!).

b. The number of accidental gun deaths per year (all age groups) is 1,500.

c. The number of accidental deaths per gun owner is .0000188.

Statistically, doctors are about 9,000 times more dangerous than gun owners.

FACT: NOT EVERYONE HAS A GUN, BUT ALMOST EVERYONE HAS A DOCTOR.

Alert your friends to this threat. We must ban doctors before this
gets out of hand.

As a public health measure I have withheld the statistics on lawyers
for fear that the shock could cause people to seek medical attention.

That is ridiculous for so many reasons.

Having doctors would mean a much lower death rate than not having doctors. This argument is very, very unconvincing.

It's called satire son. But personally I don't use doctors or guns to often. Only in cases of emergency.

But we gotta have guns. Because the milatary and police sure aren't gonna give up their guns, so the people can't either. Do you really trust the government that much? I don't trust the government at all. Politicians are a bunch of lying cheating bastards. At least thats the current situation in america. If you tried to ban guns here all hell would break loose. Actually, I really hope that this happens, Because then texas would succeed from the union and become the most badass state in existance.

I'll die before I live in a totalitarian state. Fuck that shit. I want FREEDOM.

Originally Posted by stonedape

But we gotta have guns. Because the milatary and police sure aren't gonna give up their guns, so the people can't either.

I live in the UK. The police and military have guns. The people don't. We're all OK with that.

Do you really trust the government that much? I don't trust the government at all. Politicians are a bunch of lying cheating bastards. At least thats the current situation in america. If you tried to ban guns here all hell would break loose. Actually, I really hope that this happens, Because then texas would succeed from the union and become the most badass state in existance.

I'll die before I live in a totalitarian state. Fuck that shit. I want FREEDOM.

I never said I trust the government. I don't. And I wouldn't trust any government unless I had personally set it up.

You don't get it.

Freedom for everyone is existential.

Freedom to control, freedom to be selfish.

Freedom to restrict, and freedom to resist.

You are already free, and so is everyone else.

By your very existence, you are 'restricting' the freedom of another.

It is a dog eat tail world. EVERYTHING is constant consumption.

Originally Posted by stonedape

It's called satire son. But personally I don't use doctors or guns to often. Only in cases of emergency.

But we gotta have guns. Because the milatary and police sure aren't gonna give up their guns, so the people can't either. Do you really trust the government that much? I don't trust the government at all. Politicians are a bunch of lying cheating bastards. At least thats the current situation in america. If you tried to ban guns here all hell would break loose. Actually, I really hope that this happens, Because then texas would succeed from the union and become the most badass state in existance.

I'll die before I live in a totalitarian state. Fuck that shit. I want FREEDOM.

lol. You don't need guns to have freedom. Actually if you need guns for freedom, you live in a pretty fucked up world where apparently you have to physically fight for a bit of freedom. Seriously, you can't defend that a country that outlawed alcohol not to long ago is more free than almost all parts of Europe.

If you even slightly think that all it takes for your government to turn totalitarian is for guns to be illegal, you seriously need to change your government. lol. Sounds like a pretty horrible country to live in with such an opportunistic government. I really hope America isn't That fucked up, but it might be. Europe isn't that fucked up, at any rate.

And of course you have the plain and simple safety-side to it. Almost no-one here has guns. Only the extremely professional criminals have guns, and they only shoot each other. Seriously, gun-armed robberies like practically never happen in the Netherlands.

The whole second amendment is build on the dogma that governments can always lead to one that enslaves people or takes away their freedom, by force. America showed that people willingly trade in their freedom if you scare them enough, guns have little to do with that. Maybe that in the 1800ths an armed populous was indeed a better way of safeguarding freedom against a corrupted government, but a government's power in the 21th century doesn't work in the physical ways it did in the past. The whole doctrine of armed-citizens is out-dated. Without the one benefit, armed citizens just mean armed small-time criminals and children finding daddies 'steel pacifier' in his closet and blowing their brains out.

Originally Posted by Pensive Patrick

Guns don't help you get around.

They help you protect yourself without having to be a kickass movie star Kung-Fu expert.

Originally Posted by Pensive Patrick

Guns don't help you get around.



I would be a strong supporter of totalitarian society, so obviously our fundamental beliefs clash spectacularily here. It would be pointless to continue an argument.

and i think what serkat was sayin is like take skydivin as an example, it's dangerous and it kills people at times(must suck) yet its cool? or like kids die in bathtubs, get rid of 'em right? that's wat serkat is sayin.

wouldn't guns kinda make everyone equal, kind of. like if we didn't have that the bigger musclier people would run the show...

TAKE MY FUCKING GUN! TRY IT!

;=-'

BANG!

I think guns should be outlawed, but in a slow manner... First you ban some guns, then more guns and so on, until you've banned them all.
In Norway, only the military have guns. The police doesn't have guns unless the situation requires it (which is VERY rare). No guns, allmost no armed robberies, virtually no accidental deaths by firearms... We have hunting rifles though, but still, the most used weapon is a knife here.

Originally Posted by Sound

I think guns should be outlawed, but in a slow manner... First you ban some guns, then more guns and so on, until you've banned them all.
In Norway, only the military have guns. The police doesn't have guns unless the situation requires it (which is VERY rare). No guns, allmost no armed robberies, virtually no accidental deaths by firearms... We have hunting rifles though, but still, the most used weapon is a knife here.

Good luck if your government becomes tyrannical.