Thread: guns

Originally Posted by Sound

I think guns should be outlawed, but in a slow manner... First you ban some guns, then more guns and so on, until you've banned them all.
In Norway, only the military have guns. The police doesn't have guns unless the situation requires it (which is VERY rare). No guns, allmost no armed robberies, virtually no accidental deaths by firearms... We have hunting rifles though, but still, the most used weapon is a knife here.

Good luck if your government becomes tyrannical.

Originally Posted by BLUELINE976

Good luck if your government becomes tyrannical.

That is hard to do with our government. No one in the government has enough power to overthrow the constitution, it takes 12+ years to change a paragraph in the constitution, our military is way too weak to overthrow anything and we have a king who have the right to veto. Its just bloody hard to gain that much control. Last time our country was tyrannical was in the middle ages.

Sounds like you are due.

lol america.

Originally Posted by BLUELINE976

Good luck if your government becomes tyrannical.

And if yours became (moreso) tyrannical, do you really think a nation of mostly poverty stricken illiterates with handguns and rifles is going to be a match for a military that has over 45% of the worlds defense spending being pumped into it?

Your first claim: "Most Americans are poverty stricken and illiterate"

Simply wrong. Second, wealth and illiteracy have nothing at all to do with firearms and experience in self defense, war, etc.

Then you suggest that a population of millions has no chance. Even if that were so, which it is not, are you suggesting that submission is a better answer? Would you give up all your principles because someone told you to? Do you believe you will live forever?

The outcome of a battle is not even really the point. The fact is there will be no battle if the people do not allow their rights to be taken away, and if they do, there will be no battle because there will be no tools. The gun is a symbol of a balance of power more than anything in this regard.

That was more of a dig at the gaffes of McCain and Obama from the last 12 months than my own views and/or opinion of America ("people cling to their religion and their guns", and "the fundamentals of our economy are working").

Sorry, my humor doesn't translate well, clearly.

The more laws there are, the less law abiding the people will be

The more controls there are, the less people will control themselves

The fewer guns there are, the more people will need them

Originally Posted by NonDualistic

The more laws there are, the less law abiding the people will be

The more controls there are, the less people will control themselves

The fewer guns there are, the more people will need them

That just isn't true. Have you ever been to Europe? People don't need guns at all. If I lived in America, I might have to buy a gun, because every fucking criminal has one, and because your crime-rates are so high.

Anyhow, just reflect on how wrong that statement of you was. Look up the statistics. You can look up how many attempts there were made to legalize guns in European countries. How can you live with yourself if you make giant mistakes in even such simple claims that you could avoid if you look up some statistics?

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Originally Posted by Alextanium

And if yours became (moreso) tyrannical, do you really think a nation of mostly poverty stricken illiterates with handguns and rifles is going to be a match for a military that has over 45% of the worlds defense spending being pumped into it?

Haha, awesome. That is pretty ironic in a way.

Originally Posted by Neruo

That just isn't true. Have you ever been to Europe? People don't need guns at all. If I lived in America, I might have to buy a gun, because every fucking criminal has one, and because your crime-rates are so high.

Yeah, those Europeans didn't need guns at all from 1932-1945. It's not like a socialist dictator tried to take over or anything.

The US will have their chance as well, even if they're historically 70 years out of phase with Europe.

Originally Posted by Neruo

That just isn't true. Have you ever been to Europe? People don't need guns at all. If I lived in America, I might have to buy a gun, because every fucking criminal has one, and because your crime-rates are so high.

Anyhow, just reflect on how wrong that statement of you was. Look up the statistics. You can look up how many attempts there were made to legalize guns in European countries. How can you live with yourself if you make giant mistakes in even such simple claims that you could avoid if you look up some statistics?

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Haha, awesome. That is pretty ironic in a way.

YEs, do look at the statistics....


The media blows firearm violence way out of proprtion in the US. The fact of the matter is that violence in TH US is not a matter of firearms being available, it is a matter of the failure of the system of justice to enact adequate punishments for the crimes committed.
Right nowm the law abiding gun owner has more to fear from law enforcement than the criminal that illegally owns and uses the gun in a crime.

Everything is a matter of perspective.

Its difficult to make an adequate judgement of the going ons in another persons back yard, unless you live in that back yard yourself.

Do none of you Americans wonder why it is that in gun-free European countries there is so little crime? And why it is not the case in those countries that criminals have gotten an advantage because of the gun-laws?

I am not saying gun-laws would certainly be completely and utterly awesome and great for America. But it is a pretty interesting question why America isn't as civil in regards of crime-levels, and what kind of faults in the system are responsible for that. Maybe it's just shit-poor education and the ghetto's, that make guns a necessary and lesser-of-two-evils part of American society.

Originally Posted by Neruo

Do none of you Americans wonder why it is that in gun-free European countries there is so little crime? And why it is not the case in those countries that criminals have gotten an advantage because of the gun-laws?

Not really. On such things we have to form opinions because there are too many variables, and while you may very well be right, I certainly think our material excess and "me me me" philosophy here in the US is a major part of the problem. Without the mentality, the will to commit crimes does not exist. Again, all just my opinion.

I am not saying gun-laws would certainly be completely and utterly awesome and great for America. But it is a pretty interesting question why America isn't as civil in regards of crime-levels, and what kind of faults in the system are responsible for that. Maybe it's just shit-poor education and the ghetto's, that make guns a necessary and lesser-of-two-evils part of American society.

Perhaps. I admit that while it is a sad thing indeed that I feel naked without my weapons, it is a fact of life. I cannot be as I once was and walk around feeling safe in any situation. The stakes are just too high these days.

Originally Posted by Neruo

Do none of you Americans wonder why it is that in gun-free European countries there is so little crime? And why it is not the case in those countries that criminals have gotten an advantage because of the gun-laws?
.

Hmmm, I do....

Originally Posted by Neruo

Do none of you Americans wonder why it is that in gun-free European countries there is so little crime? And why it is not the case in those countries that criminals have gotten an advantage because of the gun-laws?

I am not saying gun-laws would certainly be completely and utterly awesome and great for America. But it is a pretty interesting question why America isn't as civil in regards of crime-levels, and what kind of faults in the system are responsible for that. Maybe it's just shit-poor education and the ghetto's, that make guns a necessary and lesser-of-two-evils part of American society.

Lets not be so misleading, go look at some worldwide crime statistics involving all sorts of crimes, not just firearms.



The EU is far more laced with crime than The US overall. Suicide rates are way higher in the Eu than in the US , and poilce per capita in EU countries is also higher than in the US. Yet with all the cops and the absence of guns, one is still more likely to be a victim of crime in the EU than in the US.

And the lists like this go on and on.

Even then, there are way worse places in the world to live in relation to crime than either the US or the EU.

Step back and take in the big picture, the true picture. Not some slighted focus like you are purporting.

Originally Posted by NonDualistic

Lets not be so misleading, go look at some worldwide crime statistics involving all sorts of crimes, not just firearms.



The EU is far more laced with crime than The US overall. Suicide rates are way higher in the Eu than in the US , and poilce per capita in EU countries is also higher than in the US. Yet with all the cops and the absence of guns, one is still more likely to be a victim of crime in the EU than in the US.

And the lists like this go on and on.

Even then, there are way worse places in the world to live in relation to crime than either the US or the EU.

Step back and take in the big picture, the true picture. Not some slighted focus like you are purporting.

Uh, please look at the comparative population densities of Europe, and the USA (and its obvious implication on crime levels), before you continue on that conclusion. The bigger picture.

The area's (km2) of Europe and the USA are roughly the same (with Europe having a 5-10% larger land area than the USA). Whereas Europe has a staggering 730, 000, 000 population, comapred to the USA's 300, 000, 000. Giving Europe a population density of 70 (people per km2) to the USA's 30. Does this account for anything?

Originally Posted by Аарон

Uh, please look at the comparative population densities of Europe, and the USA (and its obvious implication on crime levels), before you continue on that conclusion. The bigger picture.

The area's (km2) of Europe and the USA are roughly the same (with Europe having a 5-10% larger land area than the USA). Whereas Europe has a staggering 730, 000, 000 population, comapred to the USA's 300, 000, 000. Giving Europe a population density of 70 (people per km2) to the USA's 30. Does this account for anything?

Sure it does. Maybe in denser populated areas it might make sense to curtail the availability of firearms, but by the same token if everyone was able to pak a gun and legally use it, crime would also plummet.
This is evidenced in the state by state statistics in the US. States with right to carry laws have significantly lower rates of crime that states that dont.

Originally Posted by NonDualistic

Lets not be so misleading, go look at some worldwide crime statistics involving all sorts of crimes, not just firearms.



The EU is far more laced with crime than The US overall. Suicide rates are way higher in the Eu than in the US , and poilce per capita in EU countries is also higher than in the US. Yet with all the cops and the absence of guns, one is still more likely to be a victim of crime in the EU than in the US.

And the lists like this go on and on.

Even then, there are way worse places in the world to live in relation to crime than either the US or the EU.

Step back and take in the big picture, the true picture. Not some slighted focus like you are purporting.

Do actually google something like 'us lower crime rate than europe'.

First 3 hits I found were about 'if we don't count blacks, America wins!'

You fucking racist.

Originally Posted by Neruo

Do actually google something like 'us lower crime rate than europe'.

First 3 hits I found were about 'if we don't count blacks, America wins!'

You fucking racist.

I just googled "World Crime Statistics" and found a load of information on all sorts of crime categories, general and per/capita as well.

Goebbels would be proud of you and your misinformation and propaganda.


You should take you jack boots off and let some of the blood circulate back into your head,,,,,,

Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck YOU

Originally Posted by ClouD

Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck Fuck YOU

Pointless arguing with oneSelf

Love

Originally Posted by NonDualistic

I just googled "World Crime Statistics" and found a load of information on all sorts of crime categories, general and per/capita as well.

Goebbels would be proud of you and your misinformation and propaganda.


You should take you jack boots off and let some of the blood circulate back into your head,,,,,,

I have a Goebbels lunch box.

Also, America has 3 times more people in prison, per citizen, than European countries. Also far more than Russian and China.

It's fun if you want to pay a lot of tax money, but it really makes you wonder about America's way of dealing with, (and creating of,) crime.

Originally Posted by Neruo

I have a Goebbels lunch box.

Also, America has 3 times more people in prison, per citizen, than European countries. Also far more than Russian and China.

It's fun if you want to pay a lot of tax money, but it really makes you wonder about America's way of dealing with, (and creating of,) crime.

The amount of crime in this country has much more to do with our hotshot attitudes, money chasing, money obsessed, supremist attitude. If you haven't noticed, Americans like to stand out a lot. Well, for the most part. Our crime levels have nothing to do with our laws about guns. They have to do with our obsession with money.

Originally Posted by Neruo

Also, America has 3 times more people in prison, per citizen, than European countries. Also far more than Russian and China.

It's fun if you want to pay a lot of tax money, but it really makes you wonder about America's way of dealing with, (and creating of,) crime.

I believe I recently read that over 1/3 of all US convicts are actually in there for second/third strike drug possession. This is what the highly unsuccessful 'War on Drugs' has given the US - an overcrowded prison system full of people who shouldn't be in there in the first place. On the inside they mix with the harder criminals and can potentially come out a lot worse than they went in.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

What if you need to defend yourself against the military or swat team?

What average citizen has a hope in hell of defending themselves against a fully armed and trained SWAT team even WITH automatic weapons?