Thread: Is suicide a cowar- should we eat meat?

... Meat is disgusting... at least the meat that is in the U.S.

Do you guys know what hot dogs are?

... yeah.

Originally Posted by cacophony

... Meat is disgusting... at least the meat that is in the U.S.

Do you guys know what hot dogs are?

... yeah.

They are those things I eat and not care about what is in them.

Originally Posted by cacophony

... Meat is disgusting... at least the meat that is in the U.S.

Do you guys know what hot dogs are?

... yeah.

All I know is, hot dogs taste good, are not that unhealthy, and are full of nutrients that sustain me.

What the fuck happened to these two threads?!

Originally Posted by Elis D.

What the fuck happened to these two threads?!

I ask my self that same question about a lot of threads.

Zing!

Originally Posted by cacophony

... Meat is disgusting... at least the meat that is in the U.S.

Do you guys know what hot dogs are?

... yeah.

Tasty? Who cares about a little cow-colon, it's all grinded up like hell anyway.

Originally Posted by Neruo

Tasty? Who cares about a little cow-colon, it's all grinded up like hell anyway.

I certainly don't care...

If anyone wants to argue about how "gross" something is go harp on the peope who eat insects.

If it doesn't hurt you what the fuck does it matter?

My friend's dad wrked at a hotdog factory, it's just like all sausages, it's the meat that's too small to sell on its own.

Anyway, there was this jewgirl that was a part of my oktoberfest group, and she was a vegetarian. She was a fucking vegetarian in argentina, most retarded thing I've ever heard. If you're a vegetarian that's fine, it's your own personal choice, but don't go to argentina. Fucking retarded.

Originally Posted by Omnius Deus

My friend's dad wrked at a hotdog factory, it's just like all sausages, it's the meat that's too small to sell on its own.

Anyway, there was this jewgirl that was a part of my oktoberfest group, and she was a vegetarian. She was a fucking vegetarian in argentina, most retarded thing I've ever heard. If you're a vegetarian that's fine, it's your own personal choice, but don't go to argentina. Fucking retarded.

Them south-Americans sure know how to eat meat. If I had to choose to end hunger in Africa, or a life-time supply of burritos and Argentinian steaks, I wouldn't have to think about it.

Vegetarians are retarded in 84% of all cases.

U guys are brutal!

Hey for me Personally Suicide is just Not an option. but that's merely personal.

Hey who am I to condemn a lonely, old, mentally challanged lady who's suffering from a disease which makes her entire skin oose with puss 24/7 and have her live in physical and emotional agony and on top of that she has a tumor that is VERY gradually and VERY slowly crushing her spine, intestines and lungs and is like a balloon growing out of her torso if she wishes to take her own Life?

I think it's very self-centered to judge about other people's right to end their Life: You have no idea of how big someone else's agony is. And even when you do live in a tough condition: You are simply not to judge the pain of others. Oh how I fucking HATE people that think they are in any kind of position to tell people "to stop wining" and somehow judge that "their pain is equal or far greater and they're not bitching either".

Someone who commits suicide is allways in some sort of Agony, wether it is visible/understandable to others or not; It's a pretty big step you don't just take.
For me personally it would have been a "weak" thing to do in the moments when my pain was greatest, but this may not be true for another person.


See you can only really judge Suicide, and wether it's weak or not, for yourself personally. Please don't decide for other people wether it is weak or not. It's not your place.


And erm... What is this Topic about? Ethics of Suicide? Or Ethics of Meat-eating? Make up your Mind!
I have Dreadlocks, often quite socialistic points of view when it comes to economy and public facilities and healthcare, regulairly enjoy marijuana and occasionally enjoy Magic Mushrooms, peyote and the like. People, who in mostcases STILL very much think in Stereotypes, assume that I then MUST be a Vegetarian, but I'm a huge Carnivour actually. I think people who don't eat meat are another disgusting symptom of The disease of the Arrogant West: Do you honoustly think people in 3d world countries have the LUXURY of foods to even have any choice but to eat meat? They eat anything that's available where food is scarce to begin with. People have to much goddamn time and money on their hands here. Killing for food isn't murder. It's killing. To me there's a Clear difference between Killing and Murdering.

Killing = Taking the life of a being that is directly threatening your life or that of your loved one OR taking the life of a being you wish to eat because people are not made to chew grass.
Murdering = Killing a being out of Anger/Jealousy/Competition or just pointlessly or to feel powerfull.
Murder violates Civilisation, Killing does not.

I only have no such negative views of Vegetarians that don't eat meat simply because they don't like it.

If you don't eat meat because you think we shouldn't eat animals, you are a bloody fucking dumbass. I think I'm gonna have an extra hotdog to piss you all off.

Originally Posted by mini0991

If you don't eat meat because you think we shouldn't eat animals, you are a bloody fucking dumbass. I think I'm gonna have an extra hotdog to piss you all off.

Well hang on...so you people are bloody fucking dumbasses to decide that we shouldn't eat things that feel pain...or are upset with the idea of you killing them?

Have you ever had a pet? How would you feel if someone barbaqued your pet, not because they HAD to eat him but because they WANTED to eat him.

Now, with that said, I don't disagree thats we can eat meats and not feel bad, but I do disagree that you are a dumbass for choosing not to eat meat.

I encountered a REALLY great T-shirt one day that had a pic of a Koala, Tukan-bird and a Pandabear and said " For every animal you don't eat, I'm going to eat 3". I was laughing for 3 days straight after having seen that.

I'm okay with people who don't eat meat because of the healthrisks eating meat can bring with it, but still find any form of Vegetarianism a form of spoiledness. I'd prefer to be solidairy with people who have very little food to begin with. I think famine is a bigger problem than Meat eating-ethics and healthyness. Most people eat meat and it hasn't been linked to deaths, unless meat is contaminated with growthhormones/chemicals or virally infected. I don't see how anyone could have moral objections against killing animals in order to feed into our foodsupply ( I can see why they would protest against the way HOW) Just don't get it. However Famine definitively kills and when a 3d world country has a strike of bad luck and the farmers' crop is destroyed: Veggies I dare you to go there and tell these people not to eat meat even though it's pretty much all the food there is.

PS: How is it that eating plants is not murder? Hypocritical ignobles.

Originally Posted by SKA

Veggies I dare you to go there and tell these people not to eat meat even though it's pretty much all the food there is.

PS: How is it that eating plants is not murder? Hypocritical ignobles.

Eating plants isn't murder because plants aren't conscious.

Also, no vegetarians are going to tell people that will die if they don't eat meat to not eat meat.

Veggies just ask that if you don't eat meat, not to. And even then usually a vegetarian will tell you it is a personal choice, and a lot of them don't even care if other people eat meat. They just can't bring themselves to do it.

Originally Posted by Sandform

Eating plants isn't murder because plants aren't conscious.

I beg to differ. I don't think we can judge the presence or lack of consciousness in beings measuring by our own standards. When we think of consciousness we think of human consciousness as the standard. Not that that means a being cannot be conscious when it doesn't meet these standards. It's just hypocritical to not eat meat, "out of respect of life" while at the same time eating plants; which are forms of life as well. IMO Consciousness = Life. I don't know any unconscious living beings do you?

Originally Posted by Sandform

Also, no vegetarians are going to tell people that will die if they don't eat meat to not eat meat.

No, but there's alot of vegetarians who's point of view argues that people who eat meat are morally wrong for collaborating in "murder". So even though, out of politeness, they're not going to tell people that have nothing but meat to eat, not to eat meat, their views still argue that these people are doing wrong. A little double if you ask me.

Originally Posted by Sandform

Veggies just ask that if you don't eat meat, not to. And even then usually a vegetarian will tell you it is a personal choice, and a lot of them don't even care if other people eat meat. They just can't bring themselves to do it.

I've had some veggies, with who I entered this discussion, tell me I was morally wrong by collaborating in murder. I've had a girlfriend once who was vegetarian, We were okay with eachother's views, but the discussion came nevertheless. I just think these people are rather oversensative. I've seen vegetarians watching wildlife documentairies and suddenly they can't bear to watch as a young antilope is being caught and eaten by a Jaguar or Lion. This is very natural and a human being catching a deer or butchering sheep is not any different if you ask me.

Originally Posted by SKA

IMO Consciousness = Life. I don't know any unconscious living beings do you?

No, if consciousness depicts life. Plants aren't conscious, they aren't aware, they are as aware as crystals or laundry detergent. Furthermore there is no need for a stationairy "being" who does not have motor skills to have consciousness. Some plants, it is true, react to the environment, but only in the same way a coke can reacts to being put in the icebox.

Originally Posted by SKA

No, but there's alot of vegetarians who's point of view argues that people who eat meat are morally wrong for collaborating in "murder". So even though, out of politeness, they're not going to tell people that have nothing but meat to eat, not to eat meat, their views still argue that these people are doing wrong. A little double if you ask me.

Well yes, it is murder to KILL something that is ALIVE. But do I care? No. Murder is a part of life. The only reason I'm not disturbed by it is because animals aren't human. But if you are deluding yourself into the idea that you aren't "collaborating" in murder you are a fool.

Originally Posted by SKA

I've had some veggies, with who I entered this discussion, tell me I was morally wrong by collaborating in murder.

Because technically we are.

Originally Posted by SKA

I've had a girlfriend once who was vegetarian, We were okay with eachother's views, but the discussion came nevertheless. I just think these people are rather oversensative.

This is how many vegetarians are.

Originally Posted by SKA

I've seen vegetarians watching wildlife documentairies and suddenly they can't bear to watch as a young antilope is being caught and eaten by a Jaguar or Lion. This is very natural and a human being catching a deer or butchering sheep is not any different if you ask me.

Well I would be sad too if I let myself be. You have two different things to be sad about watching that. One, animals kill other animals, meaning one of them dies. When my dog died I was sad. Two, animals don't have the capacity to discern the fact that murder is wrong, or if they do since they can't plant and harvest easily (cause like how would they gets dah water boss?), they HAVE to resort to murder.


I personally don't care, I am a bad person. Kill the animals, fuck if I care we all die anyway. After the event the animal doesn't care and usually the animal has no family.

I am a morally evil person I suppose. Murder isn't bad unless it brings suffering IMO.

Originally Posted by SKA

I beg to differ. I don't think we can judge the presence or lack of consciousness in beings measuring by our own standards. When we think of consciousness we think of human consciousness as the standard. Not that that means a being cannot be conscious when it doesn't meet these standards. It's just hypocritical to not eat meat, "out of respect of life" while at the same time eating plants; which are forms of life as well. IMO Consciousness = Life. I don't know any unconscious living beings do you?

I am sorry man, with all the knowledge we have of our brains and their relation to conciousness, it is just about impossible to seriously uphold the theory that plants are concious in a way that is even slightly similar to human beings. A brain-dead person kept alive is almost literally a veritable in the sense that it completely not-concious. Since this difference clearly exist, even some other-wise very pro-life people could agree that taking a brain-dead body off life-support is very different from a non-braindead person. There is a big big difference between living things with brain-activity and without it, as far as conciousness is concerned. Since one category simply has none. The way plants react to their environment is on such a basic mechanical level, that if you are saying plants have conciouness then talking-walking teletubby dolls certainly have conciousness. Do they?

Originally Posted by Neruo

Since this difference clearly exist, even some other-wise very pro-life people could agree that taking a brain-dead body off life-support is very different from a non-braindead person. There is a big big difference between living things with brain-activity and without it, as far as conciousness is concerned. Since one category simply has none.

Agreed, I believe there was a case where a girl (somehow) was braindead but could live without life support. (I'm guessing the only thing left in her was her primate brain or ancient mammalian brain or whatever you would wish to call it)

The law had to change to consider life to be a conscious being. At least in Texas, which is interesting considering the efforts of some to make abortion illegal everywhere.

Originally Posted by Sandform

I certainly don't care...

If anyone wants to argue about how "gross" something is go harp on the peope who eat insects.

If it doesn't hurt you what the fuck does it matter?

Even humans?

Originally Posted by LucidFlanders

Even humans?

Go back and read the context of that conversation LucidFlanders.

It was about the fact that someone said hotdogs were nasty thus we shouldn't eat them.

It was not a philosophical arguement.

And if you mean even humans in terms of would it be ok to eat a human, yes it would be ok to eat a human, cannibals do it all the time. Would it be ok to kill a human to eat him? No, not unless your life depended on it. If human is diseased it would hurt you to eat it, so I wouldn't eat that.

Would I eat a human? No. Would I tell others not to eat humans purely for the sake of it being gross? No. Would I tell people not to kill humans? Yes.

Originally Posted by Sandform

Agreed, I believe there was a case where a girl (somehow) was braindead but could live without life support. (I'm guessing the only thing left in her was her primate brain or ancient mammalian brain or whatever you would wish to call it)

The law had to change to consider life to be a conscious being. At least in Texas, which is interesting considering the efforts of some to make abortion illegal everywhere.

lol, that is pretty interesting indeed. Actually that is totally hypocritical. Then again, the whole 'a fertilised egg is already a full human being' is a completely indefensible dogma.

Plants communicate with insects by means of airborne chemicals they secrete. When attacked by caterpillars and bugs they "warn" other plants, which in turn go into defense mode (poison, close leaves, etc) or attract other animals that come to their aid by killing and eating up the bugs and caterpillars attacking the plant.

I dare a coke can to do that Sandform

Originally Posted by Neruo

I am sorry man, with all the knowledge we have of our brains and their relation to conciousness, it is just about impossible to seriously uphold the theory that plants are concious in a way that is even slightly similar to human beings. A brain-dead person kept alive is almost literally a veritable in the sense that it completely not-concious. Since this difference clearly exist, even some other-wise very pro-life people could agree that taking a brain-dead body off life-support is very different from a non-braindead person. There is a big big difference between living things with brain-activity and without it, as far as conciousness is concerned. Since one category simply has none. The way plants react to their environment is on such a basic mechanical level, that if you are saying plants have conciouness then talking-walking teletubby dolls certainly have conciousness. Do they?

I'm not saying plants are conscious in a way that is even slightly similair to human beings. I'm saying plants are likely to be very conscious beings indeed, as I pointed out the plant-communication example to strongly suggest, but could have a consciousness unimaginably different from ours, or animals who's consciousness does resemble ours.

My point being: Who the fuck are we to define the meaning of cosnciousness? And even IF we declare plants as non-conscious beings, how can we "not eat meat out of appreciation for life" and yet eat plants while plants are just another form of life, no more or less worthy of any animal? I'm saying the arguement often used why NOT to eat meat just seems very double to me, because it raises questions like these.