Thread: Is suicide a cowar- should we eat meat?

I half agree with you there justin. We can eat them if we want to, yes. But we don't have to, it isn't a neccisary part of survival, or any other part of life. I'm just sick of people being really ignorant on this subject(not in this forum, in life) and thinking like, "you have to eat meat because if you don't then you aren't eating a balanced diet and you won't be healthy." Pure bullshit. I'm so much healthier now that I don't eat meat. But that really has more to with the fact that I think about what I'm eating now, so I eat a lot less junk food. As for things you can get from meat that you can't get from plants, your right. You can't get salmonilla, e coli, or mad cow disease from plants.

I'm not trying to say your a monster, just that its unneccessary. An excess. You can eat what you want, but there are many benifits to being a vegitarian.

Originally Posted by stonedape

I half agree with you there justin. We can eat them if we want to, yes. But we don't have to, it isn't a neccisary part of survival, or any other part of life. I'm just sick of people being really ignorant on this subject(not in this forum, in life) and thinking like, "you have to eat meat because if you don't then you aren't eating a balanced diet and you won't be healthy." Pure bullshit. I'm so much healthier now that I don't eat meat. But that really has more to with the fact that I think about what I'm eating now, so I eat a lot less junk food. As for things you can get from meat that you can't get from plants, your right. You can't get salmonilla, e coli, or mad cow disease from plants.

I'm not trying to say your a monster, just that its unneccessary. An excess. You can eat what you want, but there are many benifits to being a vegitarian.

Didn't you say you still eat fish? So I guess your empathy only extends to fellow mammals?

Originally Posted by Seismosaur

Killing animals is entirely necessary to eating them and surviving.

How do you think we got our large brains? By eating corn?

Don't have kids...

Originally Posted by Tamias.Squirrel

He is, unfortunately, correct there. Eating other animals has been entirely natural since... well, according to Spore, since the first single cell organisms came to be (JOKE--if you make some stupid technical reply to that you are, by definition, a douche). I have NO problem with humans eating other animals. I only ever had a problem with humans killing other animals either (a) purely for pleasure, (b) using means that put the animal at an unfair disadvantage, or both. Eating animals has always been natural, whereas killing animals was natural up until humans started using weapons (and I don't want to start the entire argument again, plz).

Do you think the same thing when lions kills an antelope or something? Because the lions obviously have a huge advantage over them, are they monsters now? Since they do that, I guess lions are no longer natural? By your definition they're not. Humans and our weapons are natural, technology is our evolution. Spears, knives, and guns, were our way of getting on an equal level, or gaining an advantage over animals.

Originally Posted by stonedape

I half agree with you there justin. We can eat them if we want to, yes. But we don't have to, it isn't a neccisary part of survival, or any other part of life. I'm just sick of people being really ignorant on this subject(not in this forum, in life) and thinking like, "you have to eat meat because if you don't then you aren't eating a balanced diet and you won't be healthy." Pure bullshit. I'm so much healthier now that I don't eat meat. But that really has more to with the fact that I think about what I'm eating now, so I eat a lot less junk food. As for things you can get from meat that you can't get from plants, your right. You can't get salmonilla, e coli, or mad cow disease from plants.

I'm not trying to say your a monster, just that its unneccessary. An excess. You can eat what you want, but there are many benifits to being a vegitarian.

As for things you can get from meat that you can't get from plants, your right. You can't get salmonilla, e coli, or mad cow disease from plants.

One of the most serious side effects of a plant based diet is that some vitamins and minerals may be lacking from the diet if people don't eat a wide variety of foods. Some studies have found that vegetarians have a low intake of the vitamin riboflavin (B2), which is important in converting protein, fats, and carbohydrates into energy. Vitamin B12 is found in meats, and not present in a vegetarian diet. Some plants, such as seaweed, fermented soy products and algae are reported as being high in B12, but some feel that any B12 present in plant foods is likely to be in a form unavailable to humans. The formation of red blood cells and the maintenance of a healthy nervous system are accomplished by B12. Vitamin D is not found in a plant based diet. So if you're a vegetarian, I can only hope you're taking supplements to make up for the lack of vitamins and minerals.

As for a meat eater, the only real big argument you can make over that would be to get high blood pressure/cholesterol, but if you exercise there's no worry for that.

You can't get salmonilla, e coli, or mad cow disease from plants.

So your argument is that you can only get salmonella/E.coli from meat? Mad cow disease is obvious, but let's check out salmonella and E.coli.

http://www.slate.com/id/2160235

Originally Posted by Peanut Butter with Salmonella

Hundreds of people have contracted salmonella poisoning from contaminated jars of peanut butter, the FDA announced last week. ConAgra, the manufacturer responsible for the outbreak, will shell out more than $50 million to recall all of the Peter Pan and Wal-Mart "Great Value" brand peanut butter made at its plant in Sylvester, Ga. Wait, can you really get salmonella from peanut butter?

Yes. Poultry, meat, and eggs provide the most common source of salmonella infection and the associated disease "salmonellosis." The bacteria live in animals like cattle and birds and can easily be passed along in raw animal products. But the feces of infected animals can also contaminate many other foods, like fresh fruits and vegetables. Last week, Dole recalled cantaloupes that contained the bacteria, and in 2004, Roma tomatoes were contaminated.

Peanut butter happens to be a pretty safe food when it comes to microorganisms. That's because the nuts are blanched, roasted, and ground up at temperatures high enough to kill any salmonella bacteria that might have gotten into the raw ingredients. But the germs can still contaminate the product in the "post-processing" phase of production—when the finished product is loaded into jars and labeled for sale. The only other known outbreak of peanut butter-related salmonellosis occurred in Australia in the mid-1990s: Post-processing contamination with fecal matter was the likely culprit.

Both the Australian and the recent American peanut butter outbreaks involved unusual strains of the bacteria—Salmonella Mbandaka and Salmonella Tennessee. The genus Salmonella comprises more than 2,000 different kinds of microbe, some more dangerous than others. The most deadly, Salmonella Typhi, affects the developing world and causes Typhoid fever. In the United States, the most common are Typhimurium and Enteritidis, both of which turn up with some regularity in the poultry supply. Like Tennessee, many strains are named after the locations where they were first discovered. Arizonae, for example, often turns up in fauna typical of the Southwest. (People who eat rattlesnakes or keep iguanas for pets are at particularly high risk.) Other varieties include Salmonella Saintpaul, Salmonella Jerusalem, and Salmonella Newjersey.

Bonus Explainer: Are Peter Pan and Great Value peanut butter the same, since they're made in the same plant? Not necessarily. While the recipes could be exactly the same, they could also be somewhat different. (Great Value, for example, might have fewer crunchies.) A large food manufacturer like ConAgra uses its facilities to produce its own regular, branded products (like Peter Pan peanut butter), but it can also contract out production of "private label" brands under the specifications of giant supermarket chains like Wal-Mart.

http://www.slate.com/id/2193474/

Originally Posted by Tomatoes with Salmonella

Federal health officials are still trying to pinpoint the source of the salmonella-tainted tomatoes that sickened at least 167 people in 17 states since April and claimed the life of a Texas cancer patient. How can salmonella, a bacterium that normally lives inside animal intestines, get on your tomatoes?

Manure, runoff, and wild animals. Livestock animals, especially when kept in large numbers in confined spaces, can contract salmonella and carry the bug without showing any symptoms at all. Infected cows, pigs, and chickens shed the bacteria in their waste, which is sometimes used to fertilize nearby fields. The heat generated when manure is composted kills off most, but not all, disease-causing bacteria.

Contaminated water supplies can also put salmonella on your tomatoes. Runoff from livestock pastures, or from leaky or overtopped waste lagoons at industrial farming sites, can dirty streams, groundwater, and other bodies of water farmers draw on for irrigation. According to an FDA investigation, that was the likely cause of a 2002 salmonella outbreak in imported Mexican cantaloupes.

Since salmonella can infect anything with an intestinal tract, wild animals can spread the bacteria onto crops through their own droppings or from fecal matter they track in from elsewhere. The 2006 outbreak of E. coli in spinach, for example, was traced to a pack of wandering wild boars. The swine had picked up tainted cow manure on their hooves before breaking through the fence of a nearby spinach field to graze.

Producers do rinse their harvest with chlorinated water to remove most of the harmful bacteria, but enough can be left to make you sick. If the skin of a tomato is punctured when the fruit is picked from the vine or when presliced for sale in a supermarket or restaurant, then bacteria get inside, and no amount of washing will make it safe to eat. This is partly why on-the-vine tomatoes have been exempt from this most recent salmonella scare.

Salmonella and E. coli poisoning used to be primarily associated with the consumption of undercooked meat. But that's changing, as produce-related outbreaks become more common and more widely publicized. In 1999, produce was responsible for 40 separate food poisoning incidents in the United States. In 2004, that number climbed to 86. There have been 13 major outbreaks involving tomatoes alone since 1990.

Why the shift? One factor is a lack of inspections of farms and packing plants by the Food and Drug Administration, which means that more contaminated produce slips into the market undetected. The U.S. Department of Agriculture inspects every meatpacking plant in the country each day, keeping close tabs on safety conditions. By contrast, the Food and Drug Administration, which is charged with regulating produce, might inspect a vegetable packing facility once a year, and the number of inspections is shrinking. In 1972, the FDA inspected 50,000 farms and plants. By 2006, that number had dwindled to 10,000. Meanwhile, having increasingly centralized packing plants means that crops from a single contaminated field can mingle with clean produce and be shipped across a wider swath of the country than ever before.

http://www.slate.com/id/2150536/workarea/3/

Originally Posted by Spinach with E.coli

On the scale of food virtue, a hamburger from Jack in the Box rates low while fresh spinach rates high. That difference is perhaps the most unsettling aspect of the current E. coli scare, which has parents across America ridding their refrigerators of frozen vegetable lasagnas and grimacing over how all food suddenly seems suspect. Unlike the people who were stricken after eating fast food in 1993, this month's spinach victims were trying to eat well or feed their children a nutritious meal. Who doesn't feel for the mother whose 2-year-old died, perhaps from spinach she mixed into a fruit smoothie to coax him and his sisters to eat their vegetables? School officials in Oshkosh, Wis., are patting themselves on the back for not serving spinach in the cafeteria. This is not the leafy, healthful vision of dietary reform that I want for my kids—or would want, if only I could get them to eat anything green and leafy.

But the spinach scare is an opportunity of a sort, too, for reform. Spinach leaves carried the E. coli that has sickened 173 people and counting, but they didn't generate it. For that, blame bacteria that grow in animals, probably cattle—a reminder of how interconnected our food web is. Bad practices in the farming of livestock can make vegetarians sick, too. The scare also exposes the weakness in a mass processing-and-distribution system that collects leafy greens from hundreds of farms and mixes them together before spitting them out packaged in plastic baggies. So much for feeling superior by shopping at Whole Foods, champion purveyor of bagged salad. If you're not ready to stop feeding your family fresh spinach (or other leafy greens, really), then the best solution is more radical: Eat local. Now if I could just figure out how to do that without turning over my life to the pursuit of grocery shopping.

So far, government inspectors haven't found or haven't explained the source of the spinach-born E. coli. But the problem lies in three California counties in the Salinas Valley—Monterey, Santa Clara, and San Benito—that produce 60 percent of the country's spinach. The nation's salad bowl turns out to be a pretty disgusting place. The Salinas and San Benito rivers and their tributaries course with agricultural runoff, including cattle waste from dairy farms. These waters are deemed "impaired" under the Clean Water Act, and farms in the region don't irrigate from rivers. But sometimes, flooding spills water over the rivers' banks and into fields. Another possible source of the E. coli is manure-based fertilizer, which some growers use (and which, amazingly, only organic farms are forbidden to use in raw form). Whatever the precise cause, the Salinas Valley has now been the source of nine E. coli outbreaks traced to spinach and lettuce since 1995. We know that its farming practices are making us sick.

There's also a likely explanation for why illness spread quickly across the country. Spinach has taken off in popularity since the industry figured out how to sell pre-packaged baby spinach. Sales of bagged salad have risen 14 percent a year in the last decade, to $3 billion annually. To produce the bags, processing plants take greens from different farms, put them through three different chlorinated baths, dry and seal them in plastic, and then ship them to a market near you. The chlorination doesn't get rid of E. coli: To do that, you need to heat the leaves and treat them with an organic acid, which would probably make them go limp. So, by mixing greens from different farms without treating them for contamination, the processing of bagged spinach spreads E. coli once it's present in a particular field.

Bagged salad is wonderfully convenient. But it also represents the downside of big-business organic farming. Writer Michael Pollan explains this best in The Omnivore's Dilemma, recognizing the improvements to soil and water but also ruing the losses of large-scale organics—the blow it has dealt small farmers and the commitment to "whole" rather than processed foods. Following this month's scare, some food-safety experts recommend forgoing bagged baby spinach in favor of traditional bunches of the plant in its adult form. That means more work in the kitchen but less association with the E. coli outbreaks of the last decade. I'm sorry to give up bagged salad. It buys me an extra five minutes with my kids every night. But I confess that the bags have always seemed too good to be true to me. They say "triple washed," but you wash the contents anyway or feel guilty.

Harder than giving up bagged greens is contemplating a commitment to buying only local produce. If you live in a big city, you already know the obstacles: There's a farmer's market somewhere, but it's not convenient or nearby, and you have to go to the supermarket afterward for all the things you can't buy there. I think about the gas and time that it will take to do this two-stop food shopping and get a headache. And since I'm not about to eat iceberg lettuce for months, buying local would mean going without salad for long stretches. For a few years, my husband and I belonged to a winter community-supported agriculture group in Connecticut. We were supporting a local farm. We felt extremely virtuous. We also had 10-pound bags of turnips to dispose of. And no spinach or lettuce.

In the wake of the E. coli disaster, food-safety experts have been pushing for more regulation—more money for government inspectors to patrol produce, tighter rules for water quality and workplace sanitation. By all means, clean up the fields. But here's what I also wish for: a grocery store, within a 10-minute drive of my house (OK, I'd take 15), that sells local produce whenever possible and tells me where the rest of the fruit and vegetables come from so I can decide when to break the eat-local rule. This store would forgo silly luxuries like tasteless strawberries in January. It would sell the staples I need for my kids' school lunches (soy butter, whole-wheat bread, granola bars, and those kid-sized yogurt containers). It would favor free-range meat and poultry and eggs. Oh, and be home to a great bakery, too.

Stores like this must exist. But market forces (or even local community forces) haven't produced enough of them. Maybe the spinach crisis will tilt in their favor by spurring us to ask more questions about where our food comes from. I hope so, because I don't want to take comfort in my children's failure to eat spinach or cross another healthy food off the list.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarians#Food_safety

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

Vegetables and fruits have a risk of being contaminated by pesticide residue or by banned chemicals being used to ripen fruits. Recent cases of several widespread outbreaks of salmonella infection, including outbreaks from contaminated peanut butter, frozen pot pies & puffed vegetable snacks also indicate that vegetarian foodstuff is susceptible to contamination.

Not to mention vegetarians are more prone to getting anemia's than meat eaters. The iron in plants isn't absorbed as easily as the ones found in meats. If you're a vegetarian, you really need to make sure you're getting enough iron.

So with all of this said, yes, you can get Salmonella and E.coli (or other types of food-borne illnesses that are found in animal's intestinal tracts) from vegetables, not to mention eating foods contaminated with pesticides and banned chemicals. Meat and vegetable diets both have pros and cons, I don't really believe either one is better than the other, with exercise and care, the chances of getting sick or anything else is fairly small.

Originally Posted by nitsuJ

Do you think the same thing when lions kills an antelope or something? Because the lions obviously have a huge advantage over them, are they monsters now? Since they do that, I guess lions are no longer natural? By your definition they're not. Humans and our weapons are natural, technology is our evolution. Spears, knives, and guns, were our way of getting on an equal level, or gaining an advantage over animals.





One of the most serious side effects of a plant based diet is that some vitamins and minerals may be lacking from the diet if people don't eat a wide variety of foods. Some studies have found that vegetarians have a low intake of the vitamin riboflavin (B2), which is important in converting protein, fats, and carbohydrates into energy. Vitamin B12 is found in meats, and not present in a vegetarian diet. Some plants, such as seaweed, fermented soy products and algae are reported as being high in B12, but some feel that any B12 present in plant foods is likely to be in a form unavailable to humans. The formation of red blood cells and the maintenance of a healthy nervous system are accomplished by B12. Vitamin D is not found in a plant based diet. So if you're a vegetarian, I can only hope you're taking supplements to make up for the lack of vitamins and minerals.

As for a meat eater, the only real big argument you can make over that would be to get high blood pressure/cholesterol, but if you exercise there's no worry for that.



So your argument is that you can only get salmonella/E.coli from meat? Mad cow disease is obvious, but let's check out salmonella and E.coli.

http://www.slate.com/id/2160235


http://www.slate.com/id/2193474/


http://www.slate.com/id/2150536/workarea/3/


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetarians#Food_safety


Not to mention vegetarians are more prone to getting anemia's than meat eaters. The iron in plants isn't absorbed as easily as the ones found in meats. If you're a vegetarian, you really need to make sure you're getting enough iron.

So with all of this said, yes, you can get Salmonella and E.coli (or other types of food-borne illnesses that are found in animal's intestinal tracts) from vegetables, not to mention eating foods contaminated with pesticides and banned chemicals. Meat and vegetable diets both have pros and cons, I don't really believe either one is better than the other, with exercise and care, the chances of getting sick or anything else is fairly small.

DUR DUR DUR , my god why did you waste your time copying shit from wikipedia?????


Stay the fuck on Topic!!! Does this thread say : Let's debate about Herbivoress and Omnivores diets?? NOOOOOOOOOOOO it says: Is suicide a cowardice act?
Now stay the fuck on topic !

Originally Posted by drewmandan

Didn't you say you still eat fish? So I guess your empathy only extends to fellow mammals?

No fucking way. I don't eat fish. someone else said that. I don't eat any animals, though I do eat dairy products, but thats not an actual animal.

Originally Posted by stonedape

No fucking way. I don't eat fish. someone else said that. I don't eat any animals, though I do eat dairy products, but thats not an actual animal.

I respect your respect for life, but I don't think animals suffer in the same way as humans. Humans have the ability to plan ahead, and this ability allows us to anticipate suffering. Animals, on the other hand, can only experience pain when they're actually in pain. Furthermore, animals don't have any sort of drive, ambition, or philosophy on life. For those reasons, I have no problem with killing animals as long as it's done as painlessly as possible.

I can kinda see that, as I used to eat meat, but I think eating meat has gotten out of hand now. With factory farming and most resteraunts having like 80% meat items on their menus, etc. If I would have lived even 50 years ago, I probably would eat meat. Also,I don't see any real need for violence other than in cases of desperation. Extendending the gesture to animals is just another way of promoting non-violence, which is a key part of a truely civilized society imo.

Halocuber, stay on topic. Stop trying to derail it fuck face.

STAY OUT TEH FORUMZ, ORE GOH KILLZ YOSELF JURK ET WIT RZRBLAIDZ, E-THUR ONE WHEEL WORCZ.

Why do I eat meat?


To piss this guy off.

Justin, all those examples are still caused from animals in some way. At least it greatly decreases your chances. As for vitamins, you are describing a vegan diet, which has no dairy. If you eat dairy(which I do) you get all of those vitamins you describe.

But if your trying to say that some vegetarians are complete retards, I can even agree with that. Like my ex girlfriend who would still eat chicken, or pretty much anyone involved with peta. The guy in the video is a perfect example.

Originally Posted by nitsuJ

Halocuber, stay on topic. Stop trying to derail it fuck face.

STAY OUT TEH FORUMZ, ORE GOH KILLZ YOSELF JURK ET WIT RZRBLAIDZ, E-THUR ONE WHEEL WORCZ.

Stop crying...

Originally Posted by Halocuber

Stop crying...

Stay on topic junior.

Well hmm, I wonder how Howie is doing.

What does eating animals have anything to do with suicide?

Yes, it's very wrong that we mass murder animals, raise them to die, etc. etc. It's also messed up that we're pumping hormones into them to make them grow faster, and we're seeing big side effects from that in our children. 11 year old girls with huge boobs? What?

Anyhow. I don't eat meat. I stopped eating meat when I was 11 years old, and from there went through a few years of being vegan and whatnots. But really.

THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.

Guh.

Since we're off topic. I almost got arrested two nights ago for wearing an Animal Liberation Front patch on my hoodie because I was associating with a terrorist organization. Ah, I never thought I'd see the day where wearing a patch could get you arrested.

one side note: eating animals out of necessity rather than convenience is a whole different story. Eating meat three meals a day is not necessary. Eating meat, several times a month, yeah - meat is beneficial to humans.

burger king = not meat

Did anyone else follow the riots in south korea when they tried to use american meat in their fast food resteraunts? They nearly overthrew their precious leader! ACK!

No other country eats the same meat americans do... a main ingredient in a lot of fast food meat? PLASTIC!

That's besides the point. If you hunt and use every part of the animal as long as you're not hunting an endangered species - more power to you! I think people need to be self sustaining and that is our whole problem with the meat industry, among many many other things.

It's a heckuva lot more moral to hunt most of your own meat than to purchase most of it. In fact, in many areas it is beneficial to the enviroment. For the past while, practically all our family has eaten meatwise has been a hunted elk. That's good. Good for me, good for the elk population, good eating!

In the end, some things have to die for something else to live. Period.

suicide is an escape from a crap life.

Originally Posted by EchoSun13

suicide is an escape from a crap life.

aaaah reality. That's it ~Thanks for bring us back on topic. Damn rodents

Originally Posted by EchoSun13

Well hmm, I wonder how Howie is doing.

Thanks for asking!

Well, when some one makes a thread about suicide and doesn't post alot..I get nervous.

"None but a coward dares to boast that he has never known fear." --Ferdinand Foch,

who the fuck is ferdinand foch?

Originally Posted by Omnius Deus

who the fuck is ferdinand foch?

He's a foching French commander and military theorist.

Originally Posted by Howie

He's a foching French commander and military theorist.

Who the fosch is he that we should care about his quote?

Originally Posted by Sandform

Why do I eat meat?


To piss this guy off.

Oh come on. We all know that guy eats plenty of meat.