Thread: The Pros and Cons of Running Away

Originally Posted by Zhaylin

What arguments can y'all come up with to counter my lines of "reasoning"?

Honey, there was absolutely no reason involved in that post.

First of all, do you have a means of seeing a therapist? It sounds like you need a lot more advice and help then someone on this message board could possibly give you.

But just my two cents, you can't just run away from your problems which is exactly what all of your options entailed. It sounds like there is an awful lot of crap going on in your life that needs fixing. Take one step at a time and try to do something to improve the situation. It sounds like you would have a heart attack by looking at the big picture. So instead try to itemize and choose something to work on.

Don't give up hope. [\cliche] There's always something that can be done other then running away.

Well... The question isn't whether we have any arguments against yours, but whether you actually want to give up, leave everyone behind, die, and stuff, or whether you want the situation to change for the better.

You can basically do three things:
1) nothing... Which wouldn't do anything... like the word suggests...

2) you could do something, but that something would be destructive (like running away, blowing your brains out with your 38 special or whatever, going on a killing spree, etc). But be honest (and be honest in answering this): would it really solve anything? I think not...

3) or you could do something that's actually constructive to your whole situation. That makes it better. I mean, it won't be simple, it won't be a quick-fix, there will be a lot of work, but you CAN always work to better your situation. To make things all right again.

And while the problem may seem overwhelming to you, it rarely is. So try to find out what the problem really is.
You say your family is better off without you?
The obvious question would be 'why are they better off without you?'
WHAT exactly are the things that make this situation a bad thing. Is it you? What about you is it that's making the situation a bad thing?
In your post you speak of 'troubles' that you have had.
What kind of troubles. How did they come into being. Why did you have these troubles. How could you fix these?

You see? When you break a problem up into pieces, it gets more and more easy to solve. And if it doesn't work, then just post it up here. We can help you (that's what this forum's all about, right?).

And if the amount of problems that you have in your life right now seem overwhelming, then just take it easy. Solve one thing at a time, one step at a time.

You say you and your husband rarely see each other and rarely have sex... Well... 1) What would be the cause of it all?
and 2) What would be the solution to this? (I guess it's to visit him more, and to have sex more... Simple . But don't listen to me... Figure it out yourself. After all... I don't know anything, really... It's your life. )

etc. etc. etc.


Anywhooo... Maybe it would be better to go visit a therapist anyways... But you could also try to solve this thing yourself. You might very well double the speed of your making-your-situation-better-process...


Whatever you do, please do keep us updated...

In some cases running away actually does solve a person's problems. In this situation, that is not so. Running away from this would just create a whole new set of problems.

Thanks everyone (and thanks to the one who also sent me a PM- I will reply later this evening). Y'all made me cry, but in a sort of good way

They are better off without me because I am a neglectful and potentially abusive parent. The funny thing is, though, the neglect comes in the form of a filthy house which I still can't wrap my mind around it being THAT big of deal. We were making TONS of improvements before they were taken. They thoroughly destroyed our modular home so, being too overwhelmed to fix it, we moved to "the Farm" (our country home). That home was staying pretty clean, but because of 1) my sleep problems which makes it almost impossible for me to wake up some mornings 2) sabotage from my children unplugging the alarm- they became very truant during the first half of the school year and their grades suffered greatly because of their absences.
When I took a trip out of state with my husband, though, I left the 3 oldest children in the modular because it's closer to town in case of an emergency. When the school called the State to inform them the children were by themselves (though an adult was going to call them and check up on them every evening and my kids could call the adult in an emergency), when the State picked the kids up and saw animal feces and trash all over the place, that sealed my doom.

I abused my oldest son once, when he was about 5 years old or so because he was a firebug and nearly killed everyone. I had told him that the next time I caught him playing with fire I would burn him myself. He didn't listen and I felt bound by my oath. I set a hot lighter against his skin. It smarted like hell left a small blister but healed completely in a couple days. My faulty reasoning for doing such was: He had never hurt himself playing with fire and didn't realize how dangerous it was; so if I could impress him that it was, maybe he would stop. He never played with fire again.

I abused my second once during a power struggle. I told him to stop talking about something because it was making me angry. He absolutely would not shut up. I told him I would get the belt if he didn't shut up. He didn't. I spanked his bottom and he STILL would not drop it. In my rage, the belt found itself across his face. He still didn't shut up and I was crying so hard in rage that I removed myself from his presence and locked myself up in my small room to cool off.
He was still running his mouth when I came out, until his big brother threatened to beat the snot out of him unless he shut up and that worked.

Because of those two events, when my kids misbehave, I retreat physically or into myself or into sleep because I am afraid of my anger. Which has resulted in them becoming complete heathens with no respect for people or property (including their own). My daughters are manipulators, though the youngest is the best by far.

During my stupid psycholical/parenting class it was revealed my CAP (Child Abuse Potential Inventory) revealed a disgusting score of 290. 215 is the score used to indicate statistical significance. The psychologist concluded his finding with "... while this client would likely be a low risk for demonstrating highly aggressive acts such as physically beating her children, her belief system, poor judgment and apparent incapacity to maintain structure in the home could lead to adverse events directed towards her children."

I am, therefore, incapable of being a good parent and they benefit greatly by living with people who can successfully teach them the life skills they will need when they grown up.

I have seen a therapist at least once a month for the past 7 or so years. He has helped me greatly in some ways. In other ways, I'm a lost cause. The more time that passes, the less I WANT my children back. But not fighting for them is not an option. At their ages, such dismissal of them is more damaging than disappearing. The kids KNOW, if I disappear, I have reached my absolute limits. If I'm living the comfy life without them, at home alone, it tells them I have not reached my limits but have simply given up on them. THEY have little to do with it though. I have given up on myself being the right person for them.

What I cannot tolerate is all the liars involved. I cannot tolerate being made to look as if everything wrong has always been my fault alone. I cannot stand my ex saying he had no idea where his children were or their phone number when that is a complete fabrication that is being bought completely by all parties. I cannot tolerate not being believed when I tell the Court how manipulative and lying my kids are. I cannot tolerate the Court pitying me and my "psycholical instabilities". Frack them. I am not crazy no matter how badly they want me to believe I am. I have always done my best and I succeeded except where stupid house keeping is involved!! My children do not respect me and neither did they listen, but I could have tolerated that. So, Frack the Court.

I also cannot tolerate not having open communication with my children. We have ALWAYS had open communication and I have ALWAYS told them as much as their ages can handle about certain things. Now they are completely in the dark and it is tearing them up.

As for my husband... he is 30 years older than me and requires a LOT of down time. He works hard throughout the week (does eye surgeries on Tuesday and has Thursday off to recuperate), so he spends a lot of his down time sleeping or surfing the web when he's off. He's taking meds that make sex and climax difficult for him so the problem really lies with him in that area, but if I can't offer him even that, then what am I bringing to the relationship?!!!

I leave, in about 2 hours, to see three of my children and I am very worried about it. What if I start crying?

Here's another example of how manipulative my youngest daughter is. She has always wanted to have her dog. My sister already has 2 dogs and one of them has failing health. Last week or week before I had the stomach flu. The dog ran out of food so I was feeding her scraps and old canned food I would never eat because I didn't feel up to going to the store. I told the kids about it because I thought it was funny that Brooke (the dog) actually ate rice cakes.
My daughter, right away, said she should tell her Aunt that I couldn't afford to feed the dog and maybe the Aunt would let her have the dog. I said she shouldn't say anything or I'd likely have Animal Control over thinking I was starving the animal.

When they were picked up and left, my daughter then went on to tell her Aunt that I only have $20. to take them out to eat every week and she's worried about her dog starving and that I'm not eating because I'm giving the dog my food. WTF?! The MDT actually attacked me for feeding the dog scraps for 3 days!!! And then they attacked my husband (who was not even there) because he couldn't even go out and buy dog food for me. I didn't even tell him she had run out. He didn't know how sick I was because we don't live together. I laughed at the Court and told them to give me a freagin break, that many people give their animals scraps and it doesn't harm the animal. Then one of them said if they had a vet in the room, the vet would disagree and I rolled my eyes and said animals lived without people for a very long time and they eat whatever they find with no ill effects, to which they replied "yeah, if it's starving."
Give me a freagin break. It was for 3 days!!!!!!!!!
Too bad I didn't have the frame of mind to tell them of the conversation I had had with my daughter.

I could easily survive on my own. Solitude does not bother me in the least. In fact, it looks better and better the more time that passes.

Try to keep in mind that you only have a few years left with your kids. Remember, they will be leaving very soon. Before you know it, you will be calling them all the time trying to get them to come visit you.

Everyone hates their kids when they are teenagers. That is the way we are programmed. It makes the separation easier when they finally leave. Don't feel guilty about it.

I guess, I'm trying to say, keep reminding yourself to enjoy the time you have left with them. Even if you can't make yourself enjoy it, just keep thinking about how you will feel in a few years.

Zhaylin, I am really sorry to find all of that out. I hate it for you and for them. PLEASE don't run off like you are talking about. Your kids' emotional problems will be multiplied by ten if you do that. They need to know that you want to stick around and watch out for them, no matter how rebellious, independent, and hateful they might seem. It will throw their brains for a loop if you abandon them. I have seen the results of it before. Kids get hurt bad enough when their fathers do it, but it cripples their minds on many levels when their mothers do it. The mother is expected to be the one who stays with them no matter what. When a mother goes against that, it turns her kids' psychological states upside down. I have seen plenty of heroin addiction that proves it.

And suicide... Your kids would not only blame themselves. Your death alone would knock the wind out of them. If they were to couple that with the fact that it was your decision, a whole lot of weariness with life would emerge. They would never ever recover from it. Ever!

I think what you need are really effective antidepressants and a great deal of therapy. You very, very much need to talk to a psychiatrist about your situation. Please don't take that with a grain of salt. You need to see one immediately. You could not possibly be in your right mind saying what you said. You very much need to see a psychiatrist, not a mere therapist or only a psychologist, who cannot prescribe medication. You absolutely have got to talk to a psychiatrist. The well being of a lot of people is depending on it. Your mind is in a terrible place right now, but I PROMISE you there is a positive way out. I promise. Please... talk to a psychiatrist about what you have been thinking, and please don't put it off. If you can find a clinic that is open tomorrow, you should go. If you can't, then check yourself into an emergency room. They have psychiatrists there. Then on Monday, go to a clinic and talk to a much better psychiatrist, one who is not programmed to just get people in and out. See a psychiatrist and a psychologist if you can. I think things have gotten that serious.

Also, teenagers get much better when they reach adulthood, usually. But... If you do the things you brought up, they won't.

I agree with UM 100%.

I can't imagine how you feel going through that many fucked up events. Follow UM's advice. Get the assistance you need.

I absolutely understand where everyone is coming from. My therapist is a psychiatrist- he gives me my meds and talks me out of the worst of my funks unusally. Even though I'm not scheduled to see him for almost a month, he has made it abundantly clear that his door is always open for me. I just have true issues about barging in on him and I've only done it a couple of times in all my years seeing him.
I also realize that my mood is being made worse because of 1) a recent switch in my medication 2) I am on my period and I have PMDD which the Celexa isn't helping very much yet. Over the last couple of days I have cooled down a little and my plan is on hold.
But I am packing my runaway packs just in case and buying supplies if I come to need them.

I still need/want to buy: 2 tarps, more twine, fishing line, a second sturdy hiking pack, more aluminum, trash bags for catching water and/or a portable device for the same purpose, fish oil to help with my moods when I no longer have meds, excellent quality hiking boots and socks, a new hatchet, large containers of salt, peanut butter and sugar not only for personal use but for baiting traps, something to cover my scent, large ziplocks for holding valuable books (bible and survival/first aid/plant identification guides), muscle rub which I will desperately need the first week, alcohol, a slew of batteries for my voice recorder, a slew of baby wipes for my comfort , toilet paper , sturdy knives, chisles (sp) for recreation, more notebooks for recreation and location marking, a whistle and cellphone time for absolute last resort emergency aides, as much money as I can possibly save. Oh yes- more bullets (I only have 1 1/2 boxes), female hygeine products, beef jerky and dehydrated fruit which I will desperately need my first week.
Some of those things are necessities but most are comfort items.

Things I already have: Sturdy hiking pack, multivitamins, twine, fishing hooks, Saint Johns Wart for mood maintanence, a mirror for emergencies, a firestarter metal tool, a small container of firestarting material that will light even in damp conditions, mushroom and plant identification guides, notebooks, petroleum jelly for use as fire starter and cotton balls, bandaids, knee and foot brace, clothes, pot, skillet, a great jacket, Bible, voice recorder, a reliable gun.

Both my psychiatrist and hubby are aware of my desire to runaway and they have been keeping an eye on me. My children know of my instinct to run away when I have reached my absolute limit which is why I think they'd be most forgiving of this choice over all the others presented. I've never runaway since I had them but they know from my past and from some exasperated comments I have made that it's a possibility. In other words, it wont catch them off guard.

I just want to do what's best for everyone. They are thriving where they're at now. When I get them back, I will stunt the progress they've made. They cannot function when all of them are together. It's constant war. My kids have actually pulled knives on each other in the past. The modular is destroyed, in part, because they've thrown furniture and each other through the doors and walls. Every means of discipline I've tried has not succeeded. When they don't clean, for instance, I take away the belonging left on the floor. When they get the items back, they destroy them and tell me they don't care. When I buy them new clothes, they cut them up or stain them up. When I've spanked them in the past, they laugh at me the whole time. When I've taken them to counseling, they proudly say: "I tell them want they want to hear so I can be done with it."
I have no control and no influence, which makes me honestly consider I am not what is best for them

think of me as a bitch if you have to

you have called your kids manipulative, but children are never really manipulative. and the fact that you think they are, will stop you from having any real relationship with them. . . .Children reflect their parents. children mimic their parents behavior at younger ages, because parents teach us how to behave, how to interact with the world. and how to get what we want. children have a need for their parents, a need for their attention and love.

children need their parents physically, emotionally and mentally

when they don't get what they need, they do what ever it takes to force their parents to give it to them. it's natural. it's the way kids work. it's why they lie, throw fits, cry, scream, even run away. All to get the type of attention mom and dad hasn't provided for them. Their inability to ask nicely for that attention, stems from the inability from the parents to talk openly. It takes two to tango. And its the parents leading the dance.

the behavior of your children isn't malicious, evil, they aren't out to get you. They're hurt. What child wouldn't be hurt, if their parent thinks of them manipulative? I should know, my father hurt me. He believed I was in on it when my mom was lying about how she was handling the family income. I WAS 12, sound familiar??? The only thing that I knew about money was that my lunch only cost me forty cents. Even if a 12 year old is manipulative, it's even crazier to take it personal.

your example of your manipulative daughter, isn't manipulative. the fact that you see it as manipulative, is a problem.

the court, the vet, the family, they all seemed to think that feeding your dog scraps for three days was irresponsible. and, it is. it is in light of how we expect pets to be treated today.

pets today aren't considered just animals we happen to own, like they were in the past. feed a dog crap, leave him out in the cold, shoot him when he goes blind - we call the old way of treating our pets, neglect.

today pets have a new meaning. when you call an animal a pet, you are saying you are going to take care of it, love it and have its best interests in mind UNCONDITIONALLY. you can argue 'but pets used to always eat scraps'. that's nice....really...and we used to shit in cans.

we expect dog owners today to give their dogs the best they can have. and as it turns out, people food is usually really unhealthy for either cat or dog.

if your daughter was really being manipulative, then why did the court agree? maybe the real answer is, they were worried that your depression was affecting your ability to properly take care of an animal. and they were worried for the well being of your dogs if you continued this behavior. It was the future they were worried about, not the present.

I've worked with dogs. I've seen what's happened when people continued to feed table scraps. A dog too fuckin fat to take a shit is no joke. Its a shame. It's disgusting. And a disgrace that the owner can look at their obese dog and fool themselves into thinking that they love this animal unconditionally. They don't.

You have to understand, courts also deal with animal cruelty cases. They have seen what I have seen. Vets have seen what I have seen, all too often. It wasn't about....you. It was about the dogs

Take responsibility for your actions, or lack of action

Why am I making a big deal about it? Because you made a big deal about it. You made a big deal about this dog business being about you, instead of about the dogs. I'm not trying to say, that you're a bad dog owner. Or that you are a bad person. When people turn every situation on its head to being about them....that's usually a sure sign they need professional help

A pet is an awesome relationship to have in troubled times. Animals can love us unconditionally, and be there for us in ways when a human isn't. They can keep you company in your loneliness until you can fix your life, and you can.

its time to get professional help

I agree for the most part. But it was for three days. She wasn't starving. She's neither overfed not underfed. My mom has a dog who eats left over steak every Friday. At one time the dog was so fat she could barely walk. In my case, I'm not talking long-term care, but a short term emergency.

My youngest daughter has always been attached to my hip. We share the tightest bond, which is why her behavior has always perplexed me. I think it is sometimes a persons nature to be a certain way. I am overly passively. It's just the way I am. It's neither good not bad, I just have to learn how to operate more productively. I think my youngest daughter is simply manipulative. Part of it is her age, but a lot of it is her disposition. As I've said before, I have ALWAYS had open communication with my kids. My personality restricts secrets, but I only tell them as much as they can handle.
Her biggest thing is she wants what she wants. No biggie. It's part of her age and her nature and I neither hold it against her nor throw it in her face. I keep my opinions to myself for the most part. I do not ever talk down to my children or bash other people in their presence and I listen when they need to vent, but I don't allow them to bash other indescriminately either.

I'll finish my thoughts tomorrow. Tonight I am watching movies with hubby

I don't think you're a bitch. Everyone is entitled to their own views and I thank you for sharing your. You've given me some things to think about.

Goodnight DV.

Yeah don't run away. I don't know what you are going through, but my mom probably does. If you did run away and came back years later in their life, take it from me and don't act like nothings happened. My mom ran off when i was little, after some the bad stuff that happened, and it pisses me off to no end that she acts as if nothing happened, and that it's OK to just continue on with life as if nothing has ever happened. I don't know you, or your problems except what i read so i can't say anything, but please don't cry on the phone, i am not speaking for everyone except me and what i have had to go through. Crying will just make the others feel guilty, and it will come off as if it's only their fault, crying on the phone does alot to people. Reasons like that, and not wanting to get better are the reasons why i will never talk to my mom again, just wanting to give you some advice so it does not happen to you, but not every situation has the same answer. Like they are different then how i took it.

Thnaks

Thankfully, I did not cry during our visit. We went out for pizza and were accompanied by a lady who always shadows us to make sure we don't talk about certain things which is extremely difficult. Not having open communication sucks.
My son keeps wanting his step-father to come on one of the visits. I told him he couldn't. Son said, surely he could take some time off work to be at one. In frustration, I told him "the choice isn't his".
Hubby is being investigated for sexual inappropriateness towards my 12 year old daughter. It's unfounded, but we just have to endure.

My 12 year old daughter was extremely "guilty" during the visit. I've always been closest to her and the separation is hardest on her. But during the last visit, she kept telling me I looked ready to cry. I wasn't though. I actually felt good and we were talking and eating. My allergies were acting up though and I kept scratching my nose, so to put her mind at ease, I told her: "You want to know why it looks like I'm going to cry?" then I gave her one of my alcohol drenched baby wipes. At first she just rubbed her nose with it like I had been doing. She said: "So, what's so bad about this?" and had a stupid moment and wiped her entire face with it. She knows I put alcohol on my wipes. She's seen me do it a hundred times. Then she started laughing and bouncing up and down in her chair and I told her: "See? The fumes can make your eyes water."
But, of course, the wipe never got close to my own eyes. It satisfied her though.
She was merely projecting her own guilt onto her perceptions of me.
She whispered so the lady couldn't hear: "You got me in trouble."

When I was at Court, I told them I was concerned about what my daughters were being told. My 12 year old sent me an email asking if I wanted them back because the parenting classes started a week ago and I hadn't gone to any of them. She told me I needed to do what the Court said or I'd never get them back. I wrote her back saying, I haven't even been offered parenting classes yet. She's not supposed to email me or call me, though my oldest boy and other son are allowed which pisses her off.
Then I told her: "You got *me* in trouble about your dog." And then she laughed.

My 12 year old is very slick. She'll take my iPod touch from me and type secret messages so that the lady (Angel) doesn't see what she's talking about. It's become less and less frequent, but not knowing what's going on has been most difficult for them.
And she always erased the message before giving it back so it couldn't be saved to show the Court.
My oldest (13 year old) daughter just goes with the flow as is my 16 year old son (who isn't with them but in a Foster Home). Angel picks my son up and brings him to our visits. My sister or her huband bring my daughters because they're staying with them.
In about 15 minutes, I'm leaving to see my 14 year old son. It's about a 2 hour drive, but I enjoy driving and he's the talker of the family, so we never run out of things to say He's been counting down the days to when he can leave. I think he has 28 days left before he's taken out of the mental care facility and placed in a Foster Home.

If I did run away it would probably be forever. I know I wouldn't be able to pick up where I left off. They'd be too pissed and want too many answers for that!!
I'm sure I'd be forgiven by everyone except my 14 year old. His dad walked out on us when my youngest daughter was about a year old. My kids have always asked "why doesn't he love us" to "he needs to send us more money!" He's had NO contact with them since about 2000/2001. I have ALWAYS told my kids not to hate him. I said he just had some growing up to do, and that he has always worked minimum wage jobs and can't afford any extra child support and that he's doing the best he can and that he likely has a new family to take care of. When we found out he does, indeed, have a new baby and the new baby has some medical problems, I tell them the baby needs extra money more than they do. My daughters squealed and said they want to see their baby brother. My oldest son is indifferent. My 14 year old, though, has no compassion. Since they were taken, their "old dad in Florida" has gotten back in touch with them, but my 14 year old refuses to talk to him. He says if he saw him he would spit in his face and hit him.
Which makes me conclude empathy and compassion are not traits that can be easily taught. Some people are born with the ability, some people cultivate it, others never understand it.

Anyhow... I must leave.