Thread: Obama's getting it done son!

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

What ridiculous statistics.

17,000 people in 15 countries including the US:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/5077984.stm
British poll:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2006/no...ism.northkorea
Another International poll
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/1103-06.htm

Why is it ridiculous? He was a huge threat. He was greedy, stupid, extreme religious right, commander in chief of the largest military in the world, usurped the authority of congress and the constitution, and showed no respect for the international laws of the Gineva Convention.

How much attention is being payed in the US to the upcoming G20 summit in London?

There's quite a bit of anticipation over here... the riot squads are getting ready and whatnot. There seem to be quite a few parallels so far with the meeting in 1933, which was where Roosevelt refused to help anybody other than the US, and the negotiations fell apart, followed by the Great Depression.

Originally Posted by ninja9578

17,000 people in 15 countries including the US:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/5077984.stm
British poll:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2006/no...ism.northkorea
Another International poll
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/1103-06.htm

Why is it ridiculous? He was a huge threat. He was greedy, stupid, extreme religious right, commander in chief of the largest military in the world, usurped the authority of congress and the constitution, and showed no respect for the international laws of the Gineva Convention.

I am talking about reality, not the reported supposed opinions of jealous weenies. You yourself say Bush was a bigger threat than Al Qaeda, but I don't think you really believe it. If you did, you would have moved out of this country by now. You would be scared senseless living in a nation run by Al Qaeda, and you wouldn't dare insult them on the internet. How much foreign aid does Al Qaeda give every year? How many nations have they liberated? This is silly.

Bush got Congressional approval for the war. Some of your Democrat heroes voted for the authorization.

We have a U.N, but when they refuse to help, we act without them. We have not violated the Geneva Convention.

Back to the topic of cannabis, there was recently a DEA raid of a legal marijuana dispensary in california.

There is still no change, the DEA is continuing to ignore sate laws. The DEA is nothing more than a mob of thugs.

Originally Posted by plg6067

Back to the topic of cannabis, there was recently a DEA raid of a legal marijuana dispensary in california.

Obama said something that wasn't true?

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Obama said something that wasn't true?

yeah and not only that he wouldn't even give a full response to the 10s of thousands of voters(like myself) who made marijuana questions DOMINATE his online poll http://blog.norml.org/2009/03/26/pre...ing-marijuana/
I am sorry I went to his rally and bought his shirts lol.....

Originally Posted by plg6067

yeah and not only that he wouldn't even give a full response to the 10s of thousands of voters(like myself) who made marijuana questions DOMINATE his online poll http://blog.norml.org/2009/03/26/pre...ing-marijuana/
I am sorry I went to his rally and bought his shirts lol.....

I am a big time supporter of marijuana legalization and am always glad to see steps in that direction, but I could not get excited about the first post in the thread because Obama is so full of talk. Obama is not going to peel back the war on drugs at all. He is just going to say a bunch of stuff that sounds nice on the surface. He is just another form over substance prostitician.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

I am talking about reality, not the reported supposed opinions of jealous weenies. You yourself say Bush was a bigger threat than Al Qaeda, but I don't think you really believe it. If you did, you would have moved out of this country by now. You would be scared senseless living in a nation run by Al Qaeda, and you wouldn't dare insult them on the internet. How much foreign aid does Al Qaeda give every year? How many nations have they liberated? This is silly.

We haven't liberated anyone since WWII. We lost Vietnam, we didn't do shit in Desert Storm, and Iraq is just as dangerous now as it was in 1998. No one said that Bush was going to directly do anything, but his aggression and stupidity destabilized the already unstable middle east. Reality is that he was dangerous, stupid, and didn't give a shit about international laws or morals. Your view is very ethnocentric.

We have a U.N, but when they refuse to help, we act without them. We have not violated the Geneva Convention.

The Geneva Convention explicitly forbids the torturing of prisoners of war. They worded it very carefully and there is no area. The US violated the Geneva Convention.

Originally Posted by ninja9578

We haven't liberated anyone since WWII. We lost Vietnam, we didn't do shit in Desert Storm, and Iraq is just as dangerous now as it was in 1998. No one said that Bush was going to directly do anything, but his aggression and stupidity destabilized the already unstable middle east. Reality is that he was dangerous, stupid, and didn't give a shit about international laws or morals. Your view is very ethnocentric.

Ethnocentric? You pulled that one right out of the ole left wing ass. Uh, your view is very oriented toward sex with farm animals.

We pulled out of Vietnam too early but outdid them militarily many times over, we liberated Kuwait in Desert Storm (That isn't shit???????), and Iraq now has a democracy and the people have rights, unlike before. We liberated Afghanistan just eight years ago. Democracy in the heart of the Middle East gives a great deal of hope for their future and ours.

My points that you did not counter still stand.

Originally Posted by ninja9578

The Geneva Convention explicitly forbids the torturing of prisoners of war. They worded it very carefully and there is no area. The US violated the Geneva Convention.

I am sure you are talking about waterboarding, which I have told you many times before is only the threat of torture and is a threat that can be called off by giving up necessary information that saves innocent lives. We have only waterboarded three people. My heart aches for the poor terrorists.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Ethnocentric? You pulled that one right out of the ole left wing ass. Uh, your view is very oriented toward sex with farm animals.

We pulled out of Vietnam too early but outdid them militarily many times over, we liberated Kuwait in Desert Storm (That isn't shit???????), and Iraq now has a democracy and the people have rights, unlike before. We liberated Afghanistan just eight years ago. Democracy in the heart of the Middle East gives a great deal of hope for their future and ours.

My points that you did not counter still stand.



I am sure you are talking about waterboarding, which I have told you many times before is only the threat of torture and is a threat that can be called off by giving up necessary information that saves innocent lives. We have only waterboarded three people. My heart aches for the poor terrorists.

Have you forgotten abu graib? and we only found out about that because the idiots took pictures... Imagine all the stuff that other people have done. Also who knows what goes on in secret prisons... also even if just 3 water boarding cases were documented, that does not indicate at all how many cases there have been, don't be so naive...

You can't fight violence with violence, that just perpetuates the cycle.

If Obama is wants to get something done, he should start with making it legal for California residents to gather their own water. I think that applies to other states as well, but I know for sure California is one of them.

THat's right, it's illegal to collect your own water in California. You can't gather rain water, spring water, or any water at all. They don't enforce it (at the moment), but the fact remains that it's against the law to gather your own water.

Nothing against Obama, I don't like the american government in general. They don't serve the interests of the people, they serve corporate interests.

Originally Posted by plg6067

Have you forgotten abu graib? and we only found out about that because the idiots took pictures... Imagine all the stuff that other people have done. Also who knows what goes on in secret prisons... also even if just 3 water boarding cases were documented, that does not indicate at all how many cases there have been, don't be so naive...

That was not official military policy. It was just idiots being idiots. We had about 150,000 troops in Iraq. Of course a few were going to be bad in that kind of population.

There have been three documented cases of American waterboarding. If you can find good evidence of more, share it with us.

Originally Posted by plg6067

You can't fight violence with violence, that just perpetuates the cycle.

Violence stopped the Nazis, won American independence, and ended American slavery, to name just three examples of when violence was necessary. Do you know of other ways those problems could have been handled?

I hope this relaxation lasts a few years (hopefully 8 ). Long enough for people to see that medical marijuana is not destroying society. Long enough to collect a little more real-world data to back up an arguement for moviing towards legalization.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Violence stopped the Nazis, won American independence, and ended American slavery, to name just three examples of when violence was necessary. Do you know of other ways those problems could have been handled?

"I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent."

"What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy?"

"Victory attained by violence is tantamount to a defeat, for it is momentary."
-gahdi

Originally Posted by plg6067

"I object to violence because when it appears to do good, the good is only temporary; the evil it does is permanent."

"What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy?"

"Victory attained by violence is tantamount to a defeat, for it is momentary."
-gahdi

How should we have handled the things I mentioned?

I'm not the only member of the MPP here!

Just wondering - what do you think about this statement?

That quote is taken out of context all the time. He is referring to the responsibilities we all have as global citizens. Achieving peace and security depends on more than just sending our military off to other countries to kill people:

“We’re going to grow our Foreign Service, open consulates that have been shuttered and double the size of the Peace Corps by 2011 to renew our diplomacy,” Obama told the Colorado audience.

“We cannot continue to rely only on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives that we've set. We’ve got to have a civilian national security force that’s just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded,” he said.

Just five days later, the July 7 issue of Defense News published an interview in which Obama elaborated on his goals.

“I believe we can reconfigure our civilian national-security force. We still have a national security apparatus on the civilian side, in the way the State Department is structured and USAID, that harkens back to the Cold War,” Obama said.

“We need to be able to deploy teams that combine agricultural specialists and engineers and linguists and cultural specialists who are prepared to go into some of the most dangerous areas alongside our military,” he said.

thanks for that!
It was bothering me that it was only 20 seconds
(and obviously out of context)

I'm still not liking that guy too much, but surely we'll see soon.

I'm not the biggest Obama fan, either. However, I have been impressed by several things he's done. I hope he keeps it up.

History will prove him right or wrong, but I think he's got virtuous intentions at least, which is more than can be said for the last administration.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

How should we have handled the things I mentioned?

Peace is the answer, but I do agree with you.. War sadly is necessary to stop atrocities such as what Hitler was doing, but a lot of the war is just un-necessary. Sticking our nose where it doesn't belong, or the like.
Please see Vietnam, Iraq, etc..

And ending slavery was just an outcome of the South wanting to secede from the union, everyone knows the war wasn't really fought over that. Just another nail in their grudge.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

How should we have handled the things I mentioned?

Passive resistance and encouraging others to the same. Even if it costs you your life. Thats kinda why I put quotes from ghandi, he was pretty successful with that technique.
Also you posted slavery. The North got rid of slavery in the North without war. Also, the civil war was not a war over slavery, the South wanted to secede for other reasons. Only a small percentage of the southerns were slave owners.

Originally Posted by plg6067

Passive resistance and encouraging others to the same. Even if it costs you your life. Thats kinda why I put quotes from ghandi, he was pretty successful with that technique.

I am not sure how that could have been used against the Nazis. At the point where the Nazis had taken over Poland, France, and other European countries and already killed a really high percentage of the Jews in the taken over countries, specifically what passive resistance methods would have stopped the take overs and the genocide?

How could passive resistance have won American independence? How could it have held the U.S. together in the 1860's?

Originally Posted by plg6067

Also you posted slavery. The North got rid of slavery in the North without war. Also, the civil war was not a war over slavery, the South wanted to secede for other reasons. Only a small percentage of the southerns were slave owners.

The South was not getting rid of slavery. Slaves did a lot more for the agricultural South than it would have been doing for the industrial North, so southern plantation owners were not ready for slavery to end. The Civil War was not all about slavery, but slavery was one of the issues being fought over. It is also the issue that led to the more general state's rights issue, which was the big one. Very importantly, the North's victory in the Civil War is what allowed them to abolish slavery throughout the U.S. Although only a small percentage of Southerners were slave owners, a very high percentage of Southerners were slaves. Slavery was a gigantic problem here back then. What specifically should have been done about it?