Thread: Symbols and all they stand for...

Wow! Very interesting information. But your intellect and grasp of such things FAR exceeds my own abilities.

I can barely grasp the concept of alternate realities and parallel (sp!!) universes.

Just because we are imperfect humans that can't always be fully logical, is no excuse to just give up being rational. "Quantum telepathy"? That's pseudoscience, it has no relation to true quantum physics. The world of science barely understands the most basic strange things about quantum mechanics and entanglement. To think that this can be taken as confirmation of the existance of angels or demons is absurd.

Just think about what the negative consequences of allowing a pentagram in your house are really likely to be. Nothing. A pentagram is just a couple of marks on paper, a particular pattern of light-absorbing molecules that has no meaning to anything or anyone but the person reading it.
On the other hand, the negative consequences of keeping to your rule - the tension and (dare i say it?) aggression - are far more suggestive of the effects of a "demon disrupting the harmony and unity of a household".

You say demons have only the power you give them. Well, I would suggest that by holding on to your opposition to a simple shape, you are giving them power from the simple tension and anger you generate by doing so. By allowing your belief and fear of their power to control you, they have already won.

Just some food for thought.

Quantum telepathy is pseudoscience, no relation to real quantum physics?

Not really. Information non-locality and entanglement are intrinsic to the theory.

http://cogprints.org/3065/1/qmt.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_pseudo-telepathy

Anyway, denial of such a possibility also requires proof beyond one's own lack of evidence for it.

PQ

Originally Posted by Posquant

Anyway, denial of such a possibility also requires proof beyond one's own lack of evidence for it.

PQ

Therefore, denial that "quantum telepathy" is fake also requires proof beyond one's own lack of evidence for it. The PDF you linked mentions telepathy being confirmed and cites papers by the same author as sources many times. It also appears to have been translated rather poorly from Chinese. The wiki article, besides being from Wikipedia, provides what appears to be a complex-number solution to the problem.

If quantum telepathy is really always at work, then how does it read information across the multiverse? Remember that the multiverse has not been proven to exist, and communication of any sort between worlds should be impossible. As far as I can remember, the only theory to predict any sort of interaction past creation is M theory, and even then the only permitted interaction is gravity.

Originally Posted by Licity

Therefore, denial that "quantum telepathy" is fake also requires proof beyond one's own lack of evidence for it.

Maybe your dreams themselves come that way? But if dreams were an example of quantum telepathy, our science would still be too puny to notice. Quantum mechanics and electromagnetics both carry information across distances. You could perhaps send, be read, even if you can't receive. CIA's been working on SYNTEL like that for years, so they say.

Really, there's very little that science can prove (testably) impossible in this space.

So the correct posture is probably agnostic ... possible until proven, either way.

As to gravity... if there are gravitons, or even gravity waves, they could also carry information.

PQ

Originally Posted by Posquant

Maybe your dreams themselves come that way? But if dreams were an example of quantum telepathy, our science would still be too puny to notice. Quantum mechanics and electromagnetics both carry information across distances. You could perhaps send, be read, even if you can't receive. CIA's been working on SYNTEL like that for years, so they say.

Really, there's very little that science can prove (testably) impossible in this space.

So the correct posture is probably agnostic ... possible until proven, either way.

As to gravity... if there are gravitons, or even gravity waves, they could also carry information.

PQ

So you're saying that dreams are basically radio shows from another universe? How do you explain lucid dreams?

Also, what is SYNTEL? The only SYNTEL I know of is the IT corporation.

Using gravity to convey information would be like trying to use the strong interaction for communication. "Okay, watch these quarks for me. If they condense into a proton, that's the signal!"

Originally Posted by Licity

Using gravity to convey information would be like trying to use the strong interaction for communication. "Okay, watch these quarks for me. If they condense into a proton, that's the signal!"

Lol. Nice post.

I'm not gonna lie Posquant, this massively-connected multi-user quantum telepathy stuff sounds pretty absurd.

Yeah, I know.

But 120 years ago no one would have believed that man could fly, or even exceed the speed of sound and survive ... much less fly to the moon.

Historically, science has done more to prove the skeptics wrong than skeptics have done to prove the limits of science. Science keeps making MORE things seem possible, not less.

That's just the nature of the entangled, multi-dimensional, mutually-determined post-quantum world being discovered.

Science is already way past the simplistic Newtonian "what you see is what you get" brand of skepticism.

Keep studying.

Read this, for example, then tell me what's clearly impossible in this space: http://www.physorg.com/news160911231.html

PQ

Originally Posted by Posquant

Yeah, I know.

But 120 years ago no one would have believed that man could fly, or even exceed the speed of sound and survive ... much less fly to the moon.

Historically, science has done more to prove the skeptics wrong than skeptics have done to prove the limits of science. Science keeps making MORE things seem possible, not less.

That's just the nature of the entangled, multi-dimensional, mutually-determined post-quantum world being discovered.

Science is already way past the simplistic Newtonian "what you see is what you get" brand of skepticism.

Keep studying.

Read this, for example, then tell me what's clearly impossible in this space: http://www.physorg.com/news160911231.html

PQ

Really? We "discovered a multi-dimensional world"? All we have are theories like MWI that say having extra universes is the solution to some of our unsolved problems.

Okay, read the thing. All it talks about is determining how nonlocal an event is. Violation of GR by transmitting information faster than light is known to exist in the thought experiment presented by the EPR paradox. Being able to send information faster than the speed of light does not imply being able to perceive every single particle of a noncommunicating universe that may or may not exist.

But, we digress. Make a thread on quantum telepathy if you want to discuss this further, this thread was supposed to be about symbols. I would feel guilty if we got it locked or split unnecessarily...

You prove the point?

What does the state of the art .... prevent?

Originally Posted by Posquant

You prove the point?

What does the state of the art .... prevent?

Nothing either prevents one from yelling "abracadabra" and conjuring a boing 747 out of the wreckage of a car crash, however the odds of that actually happening....

Originally Posted by RedfishBluefish

Nothing either prevents one from yelling "abracadabra" and conjuring a boing 747 out of the wreckage of a car crash, however the odds of that actually happening....

LOL.

Sure. Absurd works. Nothing prevents you from making absurd non seqitors.... or from extending your limited knowledge of this place to the ends of all existence to say how information, matter, energy and consciousness can't combine.

Back to symbols. The point was about information. As form, information is not limited to time and space. Information is the archetypical 'metaphysical' construct. And physics is saying that Information = Energy.

As such, if it's a multidimensional multiverse, information likely traverses it... somehow.

The question is not "if" information travels, but "how, under what conditions?"

So, one of the ways information exists and transits is "as symbols handled by conscious or computational entities."

I have my own theories about brains as information nodes: neural networks, water-based electrochemical fractal cell assemblies, strange attractors and the rest.

Your approach is certainly simpler... apparently far simpler that the world itself.

I imagine you're tired of New Age pseudo-science bull-s@#* and all the rest. Me too. Tripe.

But in simply discounting the robust emerging teachings of hard science, you're also clinging to a superstition - albeit an older one.

PQ

Originally Posted by Zhaylin

He also jokes about having his penis tattooed with the American flag so every time he has sex, he's making a statement of "F" you to the government. *rolls eyes* He thinks it's the funniest idea in the world and that even the President would have to laugh.

oh god your son is awesome.

Originally Posted by Zhaylin

My son likes to draw and I encourage his artistic side. But the pentagram keeps turning up in his work.

His Foster Mom accuses him of being a Satanist. He says he's not. He claims he only draws the symbol because he likes the design and that he's not using it in his work as a religious statement.
I tell him that in today's day and age, you can't change people's perceptions about certain things, and I used the Swastika thread as an example.

Question. How does she know he is a satanist? The pentagram is not the only thing that the religious group that satanism uses. Look at the wiccans I think even some of the pagans use this.

As far as spirituality goes. I think that depends on the pentagram itself. They say that the point pointing towards you is the symbol of the devil or shows sign that the devil rules. Where as if the point was away from you it basically symbolizes God ruling. So the pentagram has many meanings to it.

Originally Posted by Zhaylin

Are you more for protecting "freedom of speech and expression" or respecting the views and feelings of others?
Is there a middle ground? What would it be?

I feel like quoting on this because I really think that the government should do something about the whole freedom of speech. From what I seen from with in both people and those who's status overshadows others. Basically like a seat of power. Now on this subject one person can have ideas about one topic while another can have a completely different idea for the same subject. Now while two people have different ideas to the subject if either of them have differing views well it can either cause problems to where the opposition will try to push their views on to the opponent or they could try to work out a compromise

Originally Posted by Zhaylin

Do you feel the same way about certain figures of speech like "nigger/nigga" and "bitch/biotch"?
Are there any times when such phrases are acceptable or should they be banned from our language?

The current quote would be considered rather vulgar to certain groups of people. I would tend to think that banning a few vulgar words from our language will not stop others from using it.

If you don't like pentagrams, I hope you're not driving a Chrysler. Because their symbol is basically a pentagram.

*Face palms*

Originally Posted by The Cusp

If you don't like pentagrams, I hope you're not driving a Chrysler. Because their symbol is basically a pentagram.

You see that new drug being marketed, where their using the triforce symbol? I thought I fell into a Zelda game.. Damn wish I could remember what they were called... stupidest looking use of a symbol ever. Not sure why the wanted to use the shinto symbol but..

Question. How does she know he is a satanist? The pentagram is not the only thing that the religious group that satanism uses. Look at the wiccans I think even some of the pagans use this.

Answer that one for you, a lot of Christians are ignorant to symbolism. And they actually believe that demons are out their influencing every single religion, in fact some Christians will tell you Muslims and any group of non-christians are satanists..

And than their is the common but incorrect link that Christians give Pagan/Wiccans and Satanists.. They assume in their ignorance that anyone working Magick is working with the Devil, which is really just a misinterpretation of their own scripture.. The satanist church uses the inverted pentagram with the devilish image in it, so for some reason society can't differentiate two completely different religions, because in the eyes of the ignorant we are all the same, working for the devil.


P.S. About censorship of any word. It's a cancer.

Originally Posted by The Cusp

If you don't like pentagrams, I hope you're not driving a Chrysler. Because their symbol is basically a pentagram.

Oh, yeah. If you drive a Chrystler you know all about being cursed.

Actually, Chrystler and the Pentagon use the ... "pentagon". The sides are closed.

Anyway. Wiki. Why not? Got a better quick reference?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentagon
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentagram

I said it before. Symbols aren't just what you make of them. They're mostly about what's already been made of them. Depends how big you are.

Funny.

The pentagon got wacked at 9/11. Why? Easy. Because of what it was. Oh. Yeah. Where was the evidence of that "plane". Gone like magic.

S'all in... easy.

No wonder her son is after it. Good instincts.

PQ

lol- I've really enjoyed reading how this thread has grown and changed.

Symbols for me are sometimes cut and dry (as with the pentagram) but context DOES matter to me as well.
My son draws it, to a large degree, simply to tick me off. It stands for everything I'm opposed to (in harmony with it being drawn as an act of rebellion).
That doesn't mean that every 5-pointed star or every star within a circle is "bad". What is the rest of the logo or design? If the star has a silly grin and is bright yellow, I think of Carl's Jr./Hardees. If it has a raised surface, I think of cufflinks (who knows why lol)

The bottom line, I guess, is that *I* feel everyone should tread gently on the sensitivities of others. If you KNOW something is seen as offensive, why try to start trouble?
I think people should be more concerned with keeping peace, harmony and unity than trying to assert so much independence and self exhaultation at the expense of others.
Don't get me wrong, if something is absolutely silly or overboard, all parties should be mature enough to listen to all sides of the argument.
But then again, sometimes people will never agree so they should keep their views to themselves if nothing can be agreed upon. There's no reason to constantly fan flames.

I find it amusing that the pentagram is said to symbolise either divinity or the devil depending on its orientation. Pointing up means "God" while pointing down means "Devil". Draw one on the ground. Now it can be taken as good or evil depending literally on where you are standing. How's that for moral relativity.

Originally Posted by RedfishBluefish

I find it amusing that the pentagram is said to symbolise either divinity or the devil depending on its orientation. Pointing up means "God" while pointing down means "Devil". Draw one on the ground. Now it can be taken as good or evil depending literally on where you are standing. How's that for moral relativity.

That's not even accurate just how it's perceived..

Cast and Banish.