Thread: Terence McKenna and Time-Wave Zero. Prediction of 2012. Open-Minds only.

Originally Posted by Xei

The Mayans were superstitious dumbasses. Why does everybody go on about the Mayans? And no, I'm pretty sure they didn't predict the end of time, how would we even know that?

Well, your reason is unassailable. Given this flawless rhetoric, no contest is necessary.

Originally Posted by Xei

Novelty Theory is pseudoscientific nonsense.

Pseudoscientific? Without doubt. Nonsense? Not remotely. It's a profoundly effective metaphor precisely because of its mathematical and scientific trappings.

Originally Posted by Xei

And I won't let you tell me otherwise until you explain precisely what a 'fractal waveform' is.

I clarified the term in my first post in this thread, but I'll reiterate with generalities: it is data repeating a predictable pattern not in sequence, but such that each shorter period is embedded within the previous iteration, so that if you zoom in on the final portion of any given wave, you will see the whole pattern repeated, ad infinitum.

Originally Posted by Xei

Or perhaps on what basis was the date chosen with regards to the data and the mathematical processes.

Here I agree that the mathematics were likely made to fit the prediction rather than the prediction derived from the math. The date was most likely an intuitive 'best fit' between the observed historic resonances, the prognosticators' interests and field of study, and roughly the end of Dennis McKenna's own natural lifespan (yet to be determined).

What you're contesting as 'proofs' were never other than explorations arrived at through a revelatory process, couched in the language of our times--always incomplete and partly inchoate, with little relation to the merely empirical disciplines they mimic.

It's not real, 2012 will NOT be the end of the world! On 01/01/13 I'll be laughing, and I'll be on here making a thread calling out everyone who thought otherwise, and making them apologize for fear mongering! No offence to any of you now, but seriously... get real! You argue your case just as well as Sasquatch people do... you convince the UNINFORMED AND WANTING! Only people who are mindless robots, or religious(any difference? HA) will take any of this with a grain of salt! Besides, where do you get off claiming the end of the world? If you're so sure, go out and do something about it... get off the computer and learn an instrument... go and right all your wrongs... or if your not a religious person, go nuts and do whatever you want! Seriously... grow up people.

"But we have proof, math and science and scholars " No you don't, it doesn't take a few people on the internet to find out the world's gonna end... if it were obvious enough to people that spend even a 'minimal' amount of time learning about this stuff... than an authority on the subject would've came up and said something by now!

But wait... maybe the government has managed to convince every knowledgable person in the world to keep their mouth shut! Not likely... besides, many of the greatest minds in the world aren't even under the authority of the american/canadian govn't. And even if they are, the scenario can only go one way "We'll kill your family if you say anything"... "but they'll all die in '12 anyways... I've got nothing to lose" etc

If there were any substance what-so-ever to this theory... than something will have been said!

You're all silly!

edit: ALSO!! How come the 'ancients' new something we don't? Somehow, whit our great accumulation of knowledge, resources, and technologies, we still can't find out what was apparently 'so clear' to the mayan/chinese/klingon blah bah blah... Answer that please!

Also, I'm not some mindless skeptic... I've done my fair share of research over the last year or so on the subject... and though is SEEMS convincing, I'm not convinced!

I love Terence McKenna. I really do. He is one of my favorite science fiction writers.

Originally Posted by mindwanderer

If there were any substance what-so-ever to this theory... than something will have been said!

I think that this whole time-wave zero thing is a ridiculous as the next rational person but you might want to be careful with the "If this was true, we'd know it already" form of argument.


What I want to know is how the "two universes" get reconciled with the Many Worlds Interpretation of quantum physics where all the possibilities have been in quantum superposition all along anyway. That's a little more than two worlds, no?

What I was wondering was how do you put the two worlds together, with out causing catastrophic destruction in both worlds? I mean the entire point is both worlds are totally different. There is no way they can share the same space at once. If they are in two dimensions, they will always remain that way.

eh....

I understand the idea that under the rule of the Catholic Church other ideologies were suppressed

but to say that the world would have become a magically peaceful place had the Catholic Church never rose to power? that's stretching it. I can forgive McKenna however because the true history of christianity has been supressed for a long time.

but you guys don't have that excuse.

the problem isn't christianity.........

once upon a time, christianity was very diverse. there was no central church. there was no central hierarchy. with no powerful central church to tell you right from wrong, there was freedom in how one can intrepret the holy texts. you didn't like what this christian group was saying, that's okay, there were many others you could try

the free-thinking of some of these christians knew no bounds

they declared there wasn't even a real need for a priest. because in their belief, no one stands before you and Christ.

these christians were very spiritual. they were free-thinkers and believed no one can just regergitate the truth for you, you must discover it for yourself. they interacted with other religions, even eastern religions.

these early christians made a bold declaration, that God was within them. And within everyone!! And since everyone was an expression of God, it became evident that you must love everyone. they were 'western buddhists'.

in their eyes, they were true Christians. and believing that God is within everyone is what they believed Jesus taught them.

can you imagine how different the world would be if that stream of Christianity became the norm? How can you point a finger at a man and condemn him to hell, if you honestly believe he is an expression of God? You can't.

what went wrong in history?

what went wrong had NOTHING to do with religion

It was the age old story of a handful of men wanting to dominate and control others. How do you control a group of people who believe they are one with God? Who do not look to a government or a central church for answers?

You can't.

You can't control them because their spirituality makes them free independent thinkers

So what happened in history? What had to happen for these few men to gain control of the masses?

1. get rid of the free thinkers. They were declared heretics. And they were slaughtered. Most of their holy texts *their half of the holy bible* were destroyed. And history almost forgotten them.

2. get rid of all these varied intrepratations. And replace them with only one intrepretation, by picking and choosing what to include in the Holy Bible. Leaving entire gospels out if they call to question the intrepretation you have decided upon

3. destroy-crush and silence the genuine christian belief that God is within you. Replace this with God is in the sky. Looking down at you. Judging you. Distant from you. A God you should FEAR. And God who has condemned you to HELL.................unless you are apart of this church. Unless you obey with the standard of this church

4. instill that people are SINNERS. That is what they are....sin incarnate. Not beautiful expressions of God..but siiiiinnnn

5. Now that they are worthless powerless sinners, they can not come to God directly, for they are not worthy of God. Now they are not worthy of God, they need a priest to stand between them and God.

6. now that they need a priest to save their condemned souls from hell, they need a 'physical' church to attend.

7. to in sure that all churches are also under control, priests are no longer self-proclaimed spiritual teachers. but must comply to a formatted system with a specific code of conduct and power roles. a system that is a part of a hierarchy.

8. a hierarchy of priests that lead to one man. the pope

9. a pope who is so powerful, it is said he is the ONLY MAN on earth who can speak for Christ.

10. if you are NOT with this Church, THE ONLY TRUE CHURCH OF CHRIST, and if you refuse to acknowledge his holiness the Pope, then you are with the DEVIL. you use fear of hell to discourage people from questioning your Church.

We went from early Christians professing that God is within EVERYONE.

To: Only the Pope is the representative of Christ on earth.

What happened in history happened................because of the desire to control

Originally Posted by mindwanderer

It's not real, 2012 will NOT be the end of the world! On 01/01/13 I'll be laughing, and I'll be on here making a thread calling out everyone who thought otherwise, and making them apologize for fear mongering! No offence to any of you now, but seriously... get real! You argue your case just as well as Sasquatch people do... you convince the UNINFORMED AND WANTING! Only people who are mindless robots, or religious(any difference? HA) will take any of this with a grain of salt! Besides, where do you get off claiming the end of the world? If you're so sure, go out and do something about it... get off the computer and learn an instrument... go and right all your wrongs... or if your not a religious person, go nuts and do whatever you want! Seriously... grow up people.

"But we have proof, math and science and scholars " No you don't, it doesn't take a few people on the internet to find out the world's gonna end... if it were obvious enough to people that spend even a 'minimal' amount of time learning about this stuff... than an authority on the subject would've came up and said something by now!

But wait... maybe the government has managed to convince every knowledgable person in the world to keep their mouth shut! Not likely... besides, many of the greatest minds in the world aren't even under the authority of the american/canadian govn't. And even if they are, the scenario can only go one way "We'll kill your family if you say anything"... "but they'll all die in '12 anyways... I've got nothing to lose" etc

If there were any substance what-so-ever to this theory... than something will have been said!

You're all silly!

edit: ALSO!! How come the 'ancients' new something we don't? Somehow, whit our great accumulation of knowledge, resources, and technologies, we still can't find out what was apparently 'so clear' to the mayan/chinese/klingon blah bah blah... Answer that please!

Also, I'm not some mindless skeptic... I've done my fair share of research over the last year or so on the subject... and though is SEEMS convincing, I'm not convinced!

Anybody who has actually studied the M's Calendar would know it does not say the end of the world is near, the people who said it will be the end of the world is religious people, and nut jobs. The only reason why everyone says it is the end of the world is because this is how people react to stuff, always the worst case scenerio. The world is full of uneducated overwhelming ignorance. Why? because it's much easier to not look at what something says and make up your own bullshit then to take the time to study something. People are a bunch of lazy asses is what it comes down to.

I seriously doubt anyone who comes to this board even believes the end of the world will happen in 2012.

Originally Posted by LucidFlanders

Anybody who has actually studied the M's Calendar would know it does not say the end of the world is near

The Mayan calendar ends on that date.

End of calendar =/= end of world.

I'm pretty sure about this one.

Originally Posted by Xei

End of calendar =/= end of world.

I'm pretty sure about this one.

Yeah it is, and you know it.

Originally Posted by Noogah

I dont want to sound like the dunce here(and I feel like one) but I find this REALLY confusing. Can someone put it in a nutshell?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_millenarianism

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

The Mayan calendar ends on that date.

Still, only someone who is nuts, or religious would come up with 'end of the world" mumbo jumbo.

I looked up some of his other stuff, and in a nutshell, he is trying to measure history. Since you can't measure history, he just assigned arbterity values to historical events then put it onto a graph, and boom you got some odd theory of how everything ends in 2012.

Looking at his other stuff, an obvious flaw becomes apparent. The scale of events become smaller and smaller with time. So a president leaving office is the equivalent of the fall of the roman empire(This is an example he gave). And fashion trends equal thousands of years of history. So more and more meaningless stuff grow more important in value, and reflect on larger spaces of history. One war equals thousands of wars. Until eventually you reach the point, where your blinking represents all of history. Then you cross the exact point where it ends, and the most meaningless things humanly possible happens and the chart ends.

I am not sure how the chart ending equals a large crazy event, when all his examples before that, smaller and smaller events equal larger and larger periods of time. Eventually you should end up with meaningless events, representing everything that ever was.

Originally Posted by LucidFlanders

Still, only someone who is nuts, or religious would come up with 'end of the world" mumbo jumbo.

Like I've said in other threads, 12/21/12 is going to be the butt of a lot of jokes for the rest of our lives after that date.

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Like I've said in other threads, 12/21/12 is going to be the butt of a lot of jokes for the rest of our lives after that date.

It really is too bad these jokers will ruin the Mayans name.

Originally Posted by Noogah

I dont want to sound like the dunce here(and I feel like one) but I find this REALLY confusing. Can someone put it in a nutshell?

Sure.

Originally Posted by LucidFlanders

I seriously doubt anyone who comes to this board even believes the end of the world will happen in 2012.

That's because the world will end in 2014. My Jehova neighbour said so.

Originally Posted by PhilosopherStoned

More like a statement of fact.

Facts can't be insulting?

Originally Posted by Universal Mind

Facts can't be insulting?

It's irrelevant if a fact is insulting or not. It's a fact. When Hard Wired says that the mayans were more advanced than us, it's a fact that he makes himself look like a fool as Xaqaria said. Somebody needs to tell him.

It's like, are you more grateful to the ten people that don't tell you that you have broccoli in your teeth or the one that does?

Originally Posted by PhilosopherStoned

It's irrelevant if a fact is insulting or not. It's a fact. When Hard Wired says that the mayans were more advanced than us, it's a fact that he makes himself look like a fool as Xaqaria said. Somebody needs to tell him.

It's like, are you more grateful to the ten people that don't tell you that you have broccoli in your teeth or the one that does?

You can correct people just by pointing out facts and countering arguments. You don't have to add anything about looking like a fool. However, as soon as somebody gets that ball rolling, I am going to say it repeatedly. I just think it's rude to initiate it.

Originally Posted by Taosaur

Pseudoscientific? Without doubt. Nonsense? Not remotely.

What? Pseudoscientific ideas ARE nonsense. It's nonsense parading itself as valid science.


And this mayan calander mumbo jumbo is just the next in a long long long long long line of 'end of the world' scenarios that have been playing out since the year dot. Clearly, not one of them has come true. This one will be no different. Our calender 'ends' every year on December 31st. You know what happens? It starts again! Funny that.