Thread: Is it against the law to share your multimedia with friends?

Originally posted by Rakkantekimusouka
Like I said, knowledge -- and multimedia, which is a kind of knowledge -- belongs to the world, every person. The RIAA should know this!

This is so true. Knowledge should be free. Lets face it, only the "One hit wonders" get hurt by downloads......Bands that have cult followings, or are really good bands don't have problems with their sales of music and merchandise. Guess what? If a movie is a good movie, a lot of people who've seen it by downloading it, will go see it at the cinema. If a book is good, and someone downloads it, a lot of times they will also go and buy the hard copy. Same for games.I know this from experience. The RIAA is trying to tell us what to listnen to by restricting us. What about the bands whose music is no longer sold/printed/in the production circuit? They'll eventually be forgotten, eroded away along with the sands of time. The sharing of it keeps it in the multimedia stream. But, on the other hand, if you want to keep it legal (and inexpensive) go to http://allofmp3.com/ and pay a few cents per song. It's pretty easy, and woth it. It even has a lot of the most obscure music.

A friend of mine is the lead singer of the metal band Dreamtheater. Perhaps some of you have heard of them? They have a very strong cult following and are not a "one-hit wonder".

Illegal downloading personally cost him over $300,000 last year alone.

You might say, "oh, well what's 300 grand to a rock star?". It's the same as 300 grand is to you.

He isn't a crazy celebrity driving around in Ferraris and buying homes in several countries. He's a pretty regular guy with a nice house in a small town and a Ford Explorer. And he's down $300,000.

Illegal downloading is stealing. There's no way around it.

Nice topic.

I’m a pirate. I admit it. I download music like it’s crack. I’ll buy an album if I feel that the musician has proven that they deserve my hard-earned money. I can’t afford to buy an album for one good song and eleven shitty songs. I download single songs to enjoy (or in the ‘old days’ I’d record a cool song as it played on the radio—it’s the same idea). I’m not redistributing this music. I’m not robbing anyone and I’m certainly not depriving anyone of their third mansion in the Bahamas. Some artists have earned my respect and my money, others haven’t.

For example, I will always purchase new material by Nine Inch Nails or Tori Amos because I enjoy their work and I feel that they’ve earned my money. I don’t even have to hear a thing off of their new albums because I know that they won’t let me down. I will not, however, buy a damned thing from Metallica anymore or Madonna (I hate her anyway) because they are so vehemently opposed to my previewing their material before I decide to make a purchase. (Aside from that, Lars was extremely rude to a friend of mine who met them backstage... but that's another issue altogether). I’m sorry, but if your album has one song that doesn't suck, I’m not buying it. I'll download the song and that's that. CDs are too expensive nowadays, especially when you’re a starving artist pinching pennies.

Aside from all of that, I think it’s also good publicity for new bands. I can think of a few bands local to New England (Godsmack being a major one) that have gotten recognition because of p2p programs. Hell, I paid to see Godsmack in a bar before anyone outside of New England knew who they were. It was a great show, too, and they are very friendly guys. Word of mouth and filesharing have boosted a lot of bands' popularity.

Also worth noting: I pirate a lot of songs that will probably never see the light of day here in the States. I love L’Arc en Ciel, but I have yet to find one of their albums here. It’s a lot of trouble and money to ship something from Japan to the US, and even then I run the risk of it not working properly in my media players. Thus, I download (although when I head on over to Europe, you bet I’ll be looking for their CDs).

Anyway, that’s my two cents on piracy.

Oh, to answer the question in the subject line: I could be wrong, but I think it's only illegal in America. Don't quote me on that though because, like I said, it could be wrong.

Over the years i've downloaded over 200 songs from kazzaa. However, i only downloaded single songs (not entire albums) that would be expensive if i wanted to buy all the singles. Now that i've got a job, and i can afford to buy them, i've re-downloaded all my songs form Tiscali (a pay site).

Kazzaa actually helped me find obscure European bands like Flying Steps and Music Instructor. After downloading Bomfunk Mc's second album, i liked it so much that i bought a copy from eBay.

The same goes for my sister. She's a big fan of Japanese bands like Dir en Grey, Malice Mizer and L'arc en Ciel. She can download songs and purchase the ones she really llikes, because it would be inconvenient to import a cd, only to find that she doesn't like it.

So basically i felt guilty about downloading songs illegally and now pay for them.
Sometimes my legal downloads don't work, so i can use limewire to download it again.

So P2P programs aren't all that bad.

I can't speak for all of the contributors to this thread but it seems to me that all this is really simply another facade, and class warfare is the real issue. People who don't have lots of money always find it so easy to compare how much they spend a year with the salary of affluent people. Its almost as if people want to penalize the rich for their higher level of success. When are people going to realize that THIS is wrong. Just because someone else has more money than you doesn't give you the right to steal from them (though America's progressive tax system may show otherwise). And about the comment having to do with the rich living off the poor, that's the most absurd comment I have ever seen. Here's a little fact to think about: The top 5% of income earners in the United States, pay 53.25% of ALL federal income taxes. I guess it would be interesting to see how things would be if all the evil rich people weren't around. Wealth distribution is wrong. Anyway, I'm finished with the tangent.

Originally posted by A Lost Soul+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(A Lost Soul)</div>

I’m not redistributing this music. I’m not robbing anyone and I’m certainly not depriving anyone of their third mansion in the Bahamas. Some artists have earned my respect and my money, others haven’t.[/b]

<!--QuoteBegin-I
A friend of mine is the lead singer of the metal band Dreamtheater. Perhaps some of you have heard of them? They have a very strong cult following and are not a \"one-hit wonder\".

Illegal downloading personally cost him over $300,000 last year alone.

You might say, \"oh, well what's 300 grand to a rock star?\". It's the same as 300 grand is to you.

He isn't a crazy celebrity driving around in Ferraris and buying homes in several countries. He's a pretty regular guy with a nice house in a small town and a Ford Explorer. And he's down $300,000.

... and?

You seemed to missed a lot of what I said. I'm not robbing your friend (hell, I don't even like their songs enough to download), nor am I robbing anyone else. If anything, if I bought an album for one song and found out that the rest of the album sucked--THEY have robbed ME.

It's business, and I am going to continue to download singles and buy albums as I see fit to spend my hard-earned (and very sparse) money.

Kula: I friggin love L'Arc en Ciel! And you can't find their music here in the States. I also like Dir en Grey, Maaya Sakamoto, and HIM (another European band). I've noticed that we're starting to get HIM's stuff over here more and more.


For those of you pirate nazis, I'll have you know that I own one HIM album and a t-shirt so far. ^_^ They're becoming more and more popular in the US and I'm working on getting the rest of the albums, although that probably won't happen until I'm actually in Europe. (Luci and I are also going to try and catch a show). Judge me as you will, but I'll repeat what I said before: some bands have earned my money and others have not.

Hey Brady,

just a sec *FLAME ON*

Much better, first of all when you go an quote someone don't pick out the one tid bit that makes your point stand out. It is called halve truths. Bad form. Very bad form.

Second of all not all pirates are bad. I download MP3s to see if I like a song or band, then O go out and buy the CD or whatever. Honestly, the labels are the ones that make money off the CDs. The bands makes thier money on tour. I am not condoning piracy, as in download an album and not buy the CD. Did you notice quite a few bands encourage downloads and even provide them. Hell, bands have been discovered that way. There was a small badn named The Greatful Dead, maybe you heard of them. They encourage bootlegs of their albums because they wanted their music to be listened to and circulated.

Honestly, I never heard of Dreamtheater, maybe I can tune in an AM station and here them or something. But I am sorry to hear your supposed friend is down 300 grand. Breaks my heart really. I wish I could worry about that much, honestly, he does provide a puplic service. I wish getting shot and having my back fractured would pay that much, but I get by on the poverty level pay.

Also, final point, no one every bitched about recording off the radio. Honestly, it is just a new form. Take it or leave it. It isn't going away, and it does help many artists. So download and if you like it, go buy the album and support your bands. If it sucks, those CDs make awesome coasters for my beer when I watch hockey.

Besides, usually the music I download isn't even availible in this country, same goes for LS. I know she downloaded some music from NiN, but she also bought the friggin' Uber version of the CD as soon as it was availible.

Finally, case in point. Downloading music is not illegal. It is illegal distribute it to others.

*flame off*

And have a nice day.

Even though Brady went a little out of line I do not agree with pirating music. You may not like a whole album and only a few of the songs, but downloading it free off of the internet still cheats people of the money that they wanted for their product. I will not judge anyone, but people lose money because of it no matter what you say.

There are bands who want thier music out there, but a majority of bands do not. Those bands created the original product. They want the money which they are supposed to get. For someone to gain something they must give something of equal value. Law of Equivalent Exchange. Pirating music does not fufill that law. You may not think that they deserve the money, but if you want to fufill the law you must give them what they ask for.

A band that I like called Gob has been very angry because people do not buy their CD's anymore. They have now refused to come up with anymore music until they get more money. They even announced they were coming out with a new CD. That went down the drain because many people felt like downloading their songs. Why I have to pay for what the people who downloaded did I don't know.

The bands that don't give consent to let people download their songs for free are being stolen from no matter how you look at it. I wouldn't be mad about the money as much as the fact that people felt like stealing the music from me. It's mine and I want to get what I deserve for making the product.

You can continue to pirate and not care about people who made the product being angry at you, but you are not keeping the Law of Equivalent Exchange. They want something for their product and if you want it you need to give them what they want. It's a basic concept.

I want to point out that I am not attacking songs that are bought off the internet with consent, but downloading without consent in case you haven't already figured that out.

I am not saying that pirates are bad people, but they are making many artists unhappy.

Touka koukan, eh hon? LOL Does that mean someone besides me is geeky enough to quote Fullmetal Alchemist! *tease* ^_^

I totally understand where you’re coming from, but I reiterate: I do not download entire albums! I download singles and, like I said, if I like what I hear then I’ll buy the album. It’s the same idea as listening to the radio or watching MTV. Also, like I said before, if I buy an album and it sucks asshole, I feel that I am the one who has been robbed.

Not that I need to defend myself here, but If one were to take a look at my mp3 playlist, they would see a bunch of songs from albums I already own (i.e. a ton of Nine Inch Nails), and even more songs by bands that are virtually unknown in the US (or obscure video game music). Believe me, if I like a band, I support them and buy their CDs, concert tickets, and various other items. If I don’t like a band, I don’t give them anything. It’s that simple. Someone else who enjoys their work can spend the money for their entire CD. It’s all a matter of opinion and personal taste.

Also, I think everyone is getting mixed up with the levels of piracy. What hurts the wallets of the band (more accurately, the wallets of the record labels) is when people download entire albums and don’t buy the disc, don’t attend shows, and don’t buy band paraphernalia.

I AM NOT ONE OF THESE PEOPLE.

Is that clear?

And I’m glad you don’t think I’m bad. My family line goes all the way back to the Vikings and they were the best pirates ever.

I know where you are coming from and I see it, but in the end I side with the band. I just see that if people aren't given consent by the owner to have it they shouldn't have it. I am more angry at those who download games and computer programs more. People shouldn't get Photoshop for free. They need to pay the real $100.

I really don't care what you do, but in the end I see the owner of the product is entitled to whatever he or she wants for his or her product.

I practice "Touka Koukan" as much as I can these days. It's hard to find others that do when you have human nature running around unwatched. My geekiness goes down deep levels. Most of the concepts I believe in have come from watching endless hours of Anime and reading many Mangas and see how to apply the storyline to create a better belief system that would benifit the human race. When you watch a movie or read a book you can see the answers to many problems today. People like watching the problems get fixed, but are too lazy to do anything about the same thing on their own. Now before I go off topic I love Anime.

If a musician is only a musician for the money, he's in the wrong damn buisness. This goes for writers, artists, or any person who produces entertainment......As a writer, I'd rather have people Download my stuff than not read it at all....

Ok, time to get down to brass tax here ladies and gents.

I download music, I download movies, I download programs.

I download singles, I download entire albums.

I distribute music, I distribute movies, I distribute programs.

In fact, just today I downloaded 1 movie, the new Oasis album and the new System Of A Down album.

But one thing I don't do is try to pretend like I'm innocent. I steal the creative works of others, I admit that I steal the creative works of others and I'm ok with that. I don't lay a whole bunch of flimsy rationalizations on the table and try to justify my errant ways with it.

Like it or not, when you click the download button in Kazaa, you are breaking the law. There is no way around it. If you were brought to trial, you would be found guilty. The judge wouldn't care about any of your bullshit logic.

Let's not tip toe around the issue here folks. You're all damn theives. Accept it.

That being said, my current policy is: If I like a band enough to download their entire album, I buy it. I follow this policy most of the time.

For example, I also purchased the new White Stripes and Gorillaz albums today.

Originally posted by Daeraug
But I am sorry to hear your supposed friend is down 300 grand. Breaks my heart really. I wish I could worry about that much, honestly, he does provide a puplic service.

Fuck off. I am many things, but I am not a liar.

And for the record, all I did with that quote was reiterate a counterpoint that I had brought up earlier in the thread. So just chill out.

Originally posted by Gwendolyn
If a musician is only a musician for the money, he's in the wrong damn buisness. This goes for writers, artists, or any person who produces entertainment......As a writer, I'd rather have people Download my stuff than not read it at all....

I have to agree with this. I have no problem with people downloading my work to enjoy. (Claiming my work as their own and redistributing it as such is another topic altogether.)

Also, I think it’s an American thing, too… I mean, what if ‘they’ catch me downloading music when I’m living in the Netherlands? Am I going to be deported and thrown into an American jail? Will I be exiled from the US for enjoying someone’s music? I doubt it.

I never said I was totally innocent, only that downloading music for free is not illegal. Do a search sometime and see what you come up with. There are many, many free legit and legal sites that have a variety of songs available for download, along with album and artist information, should one so desire to make a purchase.

Brady, why do you so enjoy picking fights? I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree because I don’t believe that at all.

As far as trading files over the internet that consist of copyrighted music, movies, or software, its illegal in the United States. There isn't anything to debate. As far as whether the individual thinks its right or wrong, well that's up to them. Either way they are breaking the law. I have never paid for songs to download but since the peer-2-peer programs have been pretty shitty as of late maybe I'll look for a decently priced pay site.

Originally posted by Gwendolyn
If a musician is only a musician for the money, he's in the wrong damn buisness. This goes for writers, artists, or any person who produces entertainment......As a writer, I'd rather have people Download my stuff than not read it at all....

BANZAI! BANZAI! :bravo:

Originally posted by Yume
People shouldn't get Photoshop for free. They need to pay the real $100.

$100 (£55) for Photoshop? It costs £500 ($915) in the UK! If you could show me a copy of Photoshop for £55, i'd gladly buy it.
I'll admit that i have a pirate copy of PS. I use it sometimes to colour my sketches, but the fact is, i don't want to pay £500 for it.

Originally posted by Yume+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Yume)</div>

They need to pay the real $100.[/b]

<!--QuoteBegin-Kula

$100 (£55) for Photoshop? *It costs £500 ($915) in the UK! * If you could show me a copy of Photoshop for £55, i'd gladly buy it. * *
I'll admit that i have a pirate copy of PS. *I use it sometimes to colour my sketches, but the fact is, i don't want to pay £500 for it.

Yeah, where can you get Photoshop for 100 US bucks?! Not anywhere in the US, that’s for sure. A friend who admires my work had a company copy and burned it to a CD for me because the goddamn program is 900 US dollars and he knew that I couldn’t afford it. If it hadn’t have been for him, I’m not sure where my art would be right now.

So… that’s all I’m going to say about that.

YARR!

:chill:
:yumdumdoodledum:

Originally posted by A Lost Soul

Yeah, where can you get Photoshop for 100 US bucks?! Not anywhere in the US, that’s for sure. A friend who admires my work had a company copy and burned it to a CD for me because the goddamn program is 900 US dollars and he knew that I couldn’t afford it. If it hadn’t have been for him, I’m not sure where my art would be right now. *

So… that’s all I’m going to say about that. *

YARR!

Ahh. You have 7.0.

I have 6.0 which I got for $100 new at Amazon. I would be pretty annoyed if 900 dollars were taken out of my paycheck. People take these programs too much for advantage.

Originally posted by bradybaker
Ok, time to get down to brass tax here ladies and gents.

I download music, I download movies, I download programs.

I download singles, I download entire albums.

I distribute music, I distribute movies, I distribute programs.

In fact, just today I downloaded 1 movie, the new Oasis album and the new System Of A Down album.

But one thing I don't do is try to pretend like I'm innocent. I steal the creative works of others, I admit that I steal the creative works of others and I'm ok with that. I don't lay a whole bunch of flimsy rationalizations on the table and try to justify my errant ways with it.

Like it or not, when you click the download button in Kazaa, you are breaking the law. There is no way around it. If you were brought to trial, you would be found guilty. The judge wouldn't care about any of your bullshit logic.

Let's not tip toe around the issue here folks. You're all damn theives. Accept it.

That being said, my current policy is: If I like a band enough to download their entire album, I buy it. I follow this policy most of the time.

Oh, I know it's against the law.....I never tried to pretend it wasn't much like yourself. And also, I follow the same policy of buying a lot of works from the industry I've stolen from. But, I still disagree with the law. I know that it doesn't matter weather I agree with it or not...But I still think that it's wrong to restrict information.....I'm not even referring to music (although I do think it should be included in the info. category), but books, software, etc. That's one thing I love about Linux and Free BSD OS's.
Anyway, as far as music goes, why don't the people who produce music just sell their music over the net without having a record company manage their albums? Like, give samples of he music on the net, and sell copies of the albums for a reasonable price by DL? The musician would get a lot more money, and a lot more good bands would be avalible to society. Just a thought...

Most bands don't even make money from record sales, it all comes from tours and merchandise. First they have to pay back the loan, which often never happens, and then after that they get about $1/record. Big record companies need to be brought down, they are ripping off the musicians and the fans.

Originally posted by syzygy
Most bands don't even make money from record sales, it all comes from tours and merchandise. First they have to pay back the loan, which often never happens, and then after that they get about $1/record. Big record companies need to be brought down, they are ripping off the musicians and the fans.

Couldn't have stated it better myself. We need to get rid of the Record Companies....

I skimmed the whole thing, sorry if this is already posted:

[also edited to add] i see i just repeated what the last 2 people said. sigh[/]

I personally have about 80gig of music. 2 years ago I didnt know what jazz or funk was. Now I have about 50gig of that music in those categories. Sure it's illegal, but I'm not taking anyones money - I wouldnt have ever bought them without filesharing. I do buy some (very few) CDs, the same I did before filesharing. Only now I know a hell of a lot better artists to spend my money on.

Good things can come of (illegally) downloading music. As I said, you get more of a taste for the music you truly like (and are more willing to buy). You recommend bands to people who might buy CDs. You definately go see more gigs than you would have otherwise. You don't have to listen to the radio anymore .

The one part of this whole pirating fiasco that really pisses me off is the record companies. Just becasue a new medium of distribution has come along and invalidated their profession we have to put up with all this bullshit. Fine, they don't like filesharing. Then why don't they put their billions of dollars to use creating an ifrastructure where musicians can upload their own music and recieve direct payment (minus a modest fee) when a song is downloaded. Why don't they? Because they stand to make less money.

I know the above scenario can work, both because I'm a programmer and can see the simplicity (thats a relative word ) of extending the current p2p framework to accomodate this. And well..... because it already does work.

Since the thread has been one long rant, im sure you didn't mind one more
-spoon

[edited to add]brady, cool friend. very jealous