Is it against the law to share your multimedia with friends?

**Crucible** · 12-10-2004 10:12 PM

Now I mean by inviting them over to watch a movie you bought or listen to a CD. You could even have them come over to play a computer game with you. Now what if you want share something that you payed for but have them be at their own house? Is it suddenly against the law because it is in another house? What If I just built a giant 500 by 500 mile house. Would it then be illegal to share songs between rooms? People create this music and these movies knowing they will be pirated. It does not come to them as a suprise. Isn't it also legal to lend someone a DVD or VHS or a movie? You could do the same with a music CD you payed for. So why can't you do this online? Instead of being on a tape or dvd it is on a hard drive.

It is actually quite funny. The only reason this can happen is because of this digital revolution. Before this pirating would literally be stealing. I mean people would be taking a product away from someone that they cannot infinitely reproduce as we can today. As for software pirating, that will go away in time. Eventually all products will require a constant online connection to work. (steam for one...) You could probably say the same about any other type of media.

Now lets slightly change topic. How about those movies and songs that are made? Look at movies for a moment. How much to actors get payed? Lets not forget all those overpayed people who sit at desks pretending to work. The (top) actors are getting millions of dollars a movie. The executives are getting up to millions of dollars a year for hardly any work. I have a better idea to fix piracy. Lets stop over paying all of these people. I bet if they did this they could sell their products for 60% less and still make the same profit. Do these people really diserve millions of dollars for a years worth of work? If anyone diserves that kind of money it is refuge workers and janitors. Their work is by far harder.

Like many people I still buy games and movies. If it was not for this 1% of the population owning 98% of the wealth I don't think things like this would be a problem. So now does this make piracy okay? I guess it depends on who it is being taken from. The problem with this is that the people that are really affected by this are the crew and other workers that don't make the bulk of it. I would love to just say anyone making over X dollar amount needs to be killed, but then that would not be fair, would it? They are after all killing people every day. Think about all those poor who die of starvation and other similar means. I mean if you suddenly won millions of dollars or got into a job paying you a lot you would not do this. I would not either. I guess what I would really love to see if a government enforced maximim wage. There is a minimum one, why not a max one? You could even have it be something like 100k a year. That is plenty enough for anyone. That is also what I believe to be the most anyone diserves. It is just, the way things are going, things will only get worse. Karl marx saw this coming. Something will have to change.

**bradybaker** · 12-11-2004 03:39 AM

You're whole post can be summed up in one statement, "It's ok to steal from rich people." Yeah sounds good to me, hell why stop at piracy? Let's all just go break into their houses and take all of their valuables, they can afford it right?

As for the capping income, what are you? Some kind of communist? The reason that you are sitting in a warm house typing on a nice computer is because capitalism works. If you're so worried about the starving children of Africa why don't you get off your ass and do something?

If you're going to argue copyright laws, I suggest you learn them first.

**Joseph_Stalin** · 12-11-2004 04:24 AM

*big smile appears on face*

If you ask me, capitalism does not work. In fact, this is why we have piracy. If we shared everything among everyone, everybody would be happy. And don't go off with all that nonsense about "no work-iniative or motivation, no competition to make better products, etc., etc.". The system does not work.

Doctors, Lawyers, Garbage Men, Police Officers, Teachers...we are all equal. Education means nothing. Every job is as important as another. The only reason we think it's unfair is the lousy human condition of being spoiled and thinking everything must work for them. Wrong. People should work for each other. Money itself promotes violence and social decay. If people knew they depended on each other, without being sensitized by television and their own mental "global map" of how the world is graphed and how things work, they would realize things could be better. Don't kill comrade Bob because he's the local doctor, and don't kill comrade Joe because he's the janitor. Social injust could be eliminated if we could destroy the image that is being burned into people's minds of how things should be fair, and that people should be paid more here, etc, etc.

If you had the chance to mold a fresh generation into these ideals, they would turn out to become perfect embodiments of the ideals. Constantly preach that all are equal, that the strong and the weak (physical or mental) are the same, and they will start to believe it. The problem today is with the people of last generations continuing the culture of past generations, of capitalism and their societies.

**bradybaker** · 12-11-2004 07:22 AM

I know it sucks for you to admit. But communism doesn't work man. Human nature doesn't allow it to work. It is the perfect system in theory but cannot be applied to humanity. It's been tried as we all know.

**Rakkantekimusouka** · 12-11-2004 05:27 PM

Hey, I use Shareaza. Knowledge -- and multimedia -- belongs to the world. The RIAA are a bunch of greedy, effed-up bastards. Anyone ever seen the South Park episode Christian Rock Hard? Seriously...like anyone really suffers.

I stand by the educated-guess that for everyone that has a good net connection and downloads music and videos, there's at least ten other people who aren't as fortunate to have such technology, and go and buy the CDs and stuff for their discmans.

Don't try to convince me otherwise, trust me, you'll be wasting your energy.

**bradybaker** · 12-11-2004 06:08 PM

Hey don't get me wrong, I download like a mofo. But at least I admit that it's wrong.

**Joseph_Stalin** · 12-11-2004 08:05 PM

Which brings us to a future thread in this forum section--people who learn the world through sitcoms and cartoons...

Without exaggeration, I have met too many people like that

On topic though, I must have at least 80 gigs worth of downloads in movies and games, but I think the factor that makes people believe in that this is right, is because the digital information is not real in the sense that the average person takes it for. In terms of the conscience, people think that only stealing physical objects is wrong, because, in the internet, you are simply copying a file, and not taking a "one of a kind" object from someone. To them, the owner still has it, it still exists.

**Crucible** · 12-12-2004 03:54 AM

If you think it is so wrong then why do you do it? Obviously you have some way to rationalize what you are doing to make it right. How is this... I don't think it is wrong and I could really care fucking less what you have to say about it because you are, to put it simply, wrong!

**bradybaker** · 12-12-2004 06:31 AM

Originally posted by Crucible+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Crucible)</div>

If you think it is so wrong then why do you do it? Obviously you have some way to rationalize what you are doing to make it right. How is this...[/b]

We as humans do many things that we know are wrong. It's human nature. We slack off when we know we should work hard, we may take a candy bar from 7/11, we may cheat on our taxes or cheat on our spouse. We know it's wrong, we do it anyway (I'm not saying I personally partake in this behaviour, but it's obvious that many people do). Ignoring the conscience is not a difficult thing to do, especially when we have something to gain from it.

<!--QuoteBegin-Crucible
I don't think it is wrong and I could really care fucking less what you have to say about it because you are, to put it simply, wrong!

I guess that's one way to rationalize it, get angry and make a statement with absolutely no thought to back it up. Good job.

**Crucible** · 12-12-2004 08:49 PM

I am just sick of having to back up everything. Anyways, I had a bad day that day. I seriously thought I was going to kill myself so I figured it would not matter. Anyways, I am better today. I just look at this world differently than most people. I don't see like as being important. I see our actions as whatever we want them to be.

**bradybaker** · 12-13-2004 02:53 AM

Just because you see the world differently doesn't make your actions right.

**Joseph_Stalin** · 12-13-2004 04:04 AM

Nor do they make them wrong.

(that's the "ah...ha.." moment

heh, I am really tired...)

**bradybaker** · 12-13-2004 05:23 AM

Well that's material for a whole different thread. I meant in the eyes of law.

**Umbrasquall** · 12-13-2004 06:34 AM

The law could say slavery is good.

Just adding to the back and forth 1-line arguments lol.

EDIT: So much for extended discussion.

I don't feel like commenting on the original topic but I suggest getting back to it. (Yes I'm a total hypocrite, sue me

).

EDIT2_#%@#3: Okay I spelt orginal wrong.

EDIT3#$(=+$4: Damn it I spelt it wrong in the EDIT. BTW this is actually the 4th... or is it 5th edit cause I orginally didn't want to... and came back... I... Jebus I'm tired.

EDITONCEAGAINSOBS: OMFG I spelt originally wrong AGAIN.

EDIT: Oh shi... I just realized 'spelt' isn't a word.

EDITPROMISETHISISTHELASTONE: Added color to make it pretty.

I'm going crazy...

**bradybaker** · 12-13-2004 07:02 AM

But it doesn't.

Ok, someone get this back on topic.

**Rakkantekimusouka** · 12-13-2004 04:44 PM

Like I said, knowledge -- and multimedia, which is a kind of knowledge -- belongs to the world, every person. The RIAA should know this!

**dream-scape** · 12-13-2004 05:08 PM

Originally posted by Crucible
Isn't it also legal to lend someone a DVD or VHS or a movie? *You could do the same with a music CD you payed for. *So why can't you do this online?

The type of "sharing" online you are talking about, you are not lending anything to anyone. Keeping with your analogy, what you are doing is making them a copy of the DVD or CD and giving them the copy, while keeping the DVD or CD that you paid for.

There is a type of "sharing" online though that fits with the example you gave above though. iTunes is the perfect example of this. If you are on a network (like in a campus dorm or something), you can view other people's playlists if they choose to share them. You can listen to their music all you want, but you cannot download it. I.E, no illegal copy is being made.

**bmx-life™** · 12-25-2004 09:07 AM

ok my 2 cents:
The rate in which humans share information is geting faster all the time just look at how fast things have gotten over the past 30yrs in a technological form, I mean its only natural that it will happen. The only thing in the way of this evolution is ethics an morales. Somewhere down the line its going to get closer to everyone being conected on the same level.

Ok did that get ya thinking.

**Kaniaz** · 12-28-2004 01:51 AM

Is it against the law to invite your friends over to listen to music, or to let them watch a movie, etc? No, of course not. There's no point in even bothering to make a law because you'd have alot of trouble enforcing it anyway, without being like "Big Brother" in 1984 (all-seeing).

I guess it is a grey area, this argument. On one hand you've got people that believe sharing multimedia via p2p programs isn't (shouldn't) be illegal, and it's quite fine to do so. Then you have the people that expect you to pay for it.

Let me list up all the pros and cons of file sharing, then the pros and cons of buying the actual thing itself.

File Sharing

Pros
[list]It's really quick to do. You can click a button, wait a few minutes and bam, the latest song is on your computer for you to listen to at your hearts desire.[*]You can't get it damaged or lost. If you delete it, just re-download it.[*]It's free.[list]

Cons
[list]It is quite obviously illegal.[*]You deprive people of the money which, quite frankly, they worked for and deserve. Singing isn't an easy job, even though must people hate to admit it (no, you are not the next Elvis Presley). Programming is also very hard, in the sense of games.[list]

Buying It

Pros
[list]You support the guys that made it. They get to put food on the table.[*]It's nice to just have a physical thing you can look at, and display in collections, etc.[*]You get techicnal support, etc.[*]No dodgy crack-warez type stuff.[*]Legal.[list]

Cons
[list]It takes longer than file sharing to do in some cases. You could just click and download, or take a 30 minute drive to the store and back to get it.[*]You can lose it or damage it.[*]It costs money.[list]

The main factors which help file sharing become such a large, common thing to do nowadays are convience and cost. Face it, some games and music songs and movies *are* ovepriced and overvalued, and aren't worth what you pay for. You could say that when they get greedy like this, downloading the stuff is making them get what they deserve. But you forgot - nobody was forcing you to buy it in the first place, were they?

File sharing is basically the same thing as walking into, say, Brittney Spears room where she's just spent alot of work making a new single and she's quite proud of it really, and you nabbing a copy under her nose and running off. It's stealing - face it, you are simply taking what you didn't pay for. There's no other way around that. You are a thief. Just because you do it from the comfort of your own room in a chair by clicking that "Download" button dosen't make it any different from stealing it under their nose. They worked, they should get paid.

Sure, maybe singing and programming and movie-making people shouldn't have $30 million or god knows what else, but once again, nobody asked you to buy it. They just made a good song, because people bought it. So let them get what they deserve to earn.

I suppose none of us here are famous worldwide musicians, with millions of fans, but I know if I was one, I'd be extremely upset with all the people that file shared. You can say "yeah, yeah, they lost their precious millions!", but so what. They just happen to be in an business which is currently earning *alot* of money. Stop being jealous and actually buy the stuff.

Notwithstanding, I am a music-downloading-whore anyway. Writing this has made me feel quite guilty, but if I was to see myself going in a store and stealing a CD every time I downloaded a song, I'd probably stop. That is all I'm doing at the end of the day...

And I suppose the last, faint factor is popularity. There are a couple of places I know where filesharing "makes u the cool.".

Yep. Whatever. Go use iTunes to overcome the convinence factor.

**Crucible** · 12-30-2004 04:57 AM

I wouldn't buy the crap anyways. Before I knew about filesharing I watched everything on TV. I never listened to music... How am I stealing something I would not buy anyways. It is not like I am stealing a hard copy of something. I still buy many games, and that is all I ever have bought and it is all I ever will buy except for a select few movies. This has never changed, and filesharing made it no different. When I download something how am I stealing it if I would not buy it anyways? If anything I am slowing other people's downloads down thus saving them money. I have never once bought a single CD and I have only bought a few movies. Even years after filesharing became widely available I did not download music because I did not want to. I eventually decided to download it because it was free. I never would have bought the music. Oh, and one last little thing about music. It is not hard for most of these people to sing because all they are selling is their image. Spears and other artists similar to her don't even sing. They just say words and have their voices altered so much to the point where it is not even them singing it anymore. Do you really think I care if I am stealing from these people who are overpayed? Those people and others like them are the reasons people are dying in other countries because they are so poor. The rich live off of the poor. Personally, I think garbage people should get payed more than these so called artists.

**dream-scape** · 12-30-2004 06:14 AM

Originally posted by Crucible
When I download something how am I stealing it if I would not buy it anyways?

I don't have any plans to buy a house for some time, so I guess then you won't mind if I take yours, since by your logic that wouldn't be stealing because I have no plans to buy one. Great! I'll be moving in tomorrow, and I expect you to be the hell out!

**Alric** · 12-30-2004 06:39 AM

The fact is your stealing. It doesn't matter if you wouldn't buy it anyway. You can try and argue they are not losing any money, and you may be right, but the fact is you are gaining something which you didn't pay for, which is stealing.

**Rakkantekimusouka** · 12-30-2004 05:31 PM

Filesharing is like religion -- filesharers are to people who believe filesharing is wrong as religious people are to atheists (or is it vice-versa?). Likewise, it's a very controversial topic, and money and morals are inevitably involved.

**Alric** · 12-31-2004 09:09 AM

By the way some people really do think its wrong but they are to lazy or cheap to buy it so they do it anyway. Its like jaywalking. Sure you know you shouldn't do and theres a chance that you might get ran over, and if a cop happens to drive by you will get a ticket, but the next crossing walk is 5 blocks down which is out of your way!