LHC - Joe Rogans View

**tommo** · 02-11-2010 12:46 AM

Originally Posted by Catbus

I have, and they are films. Fictional films.

You fail at getting the point. What I'm saying is that that is how they will get smarter than us.

Originally Posted by Catbus

I doubt it would happen instantaneously. When AI comes around (if it even does), I highly doubt that it will happen at once, meaning that the very first robot or computer with AI will have a conscientiousness similar to humans. Rather I see it being a long and gradual process, something that would be much easier to govern. However, this is all speculation.

Well if the very first robot or computer to get AI has consciousness similar to humans, it will already be considered smarter than us. If you didn't understand what I said, computers now already kick the shit out of a human brain in calculations per second. Like our best computers. Computers will also improve a lot between now and when we get AI, like we'll have quantum computers. So they will be smarter right away.

**Catbus** · 02-11-2010 02:04 AM

Originally Posted by tommo

You fail at getting the point. What I'm saying is that that is how they will get smarter than us.

I understood your point, I was just highlighting the fact that it's a bit outlandish.

Originally Posted by tommo

Well if the very first robot or computer to get AI has consciousness similar to humans, it will already be considered smarter than us. If you didn't understand what I said, computers now already kick the shit out of a human brain in calculations per second. Like our best computers. Computers will also improve a lot between now and when we get AI, like we'll have quantum computers. So they will be smarter right away.

That makes sense, and to an extent I can see it's viability, but my initial point was that it's silly to say that technology will eventually grow smarter/turn on us. Technology, to me at least, encompasses a lot more than just robotics.

**Caprisun** · 02-11-2010 05:40 AM

Originally Posted by Catbus

I understood your point, I was just highlighting the fact that it's a bit outlandish.

That makes sense, and to an extent I can see it's viability, but my initial point was that it's silly to say that technology will eventually grow smarter/turn on us. Technology, to me at least, encompasses a lot more than just robotics.

I agree. Technology is only as smart as we make it. We would never create something that would be capable of taking over the world. Why make a self-aware robot that has the ability to make decisions, and then give it to capability to carry a weapon? I think humans are smart enough not to do that. Even if a robot can become self-aware, it is a stretch to think we can completely replicate human consciousness. We have to completely understand it ourselves before we can replicate it. And I think creativity and human ingenuity always trumps a robot in a fight, humans could easily find a way to destroy an army of robots. Science fiction isn't always a good prediction of the future. According to science fiction movies, we should be driving hover cars by now.

**tommo** · 02-11-2010 06:24 AM

Originally Posted by Caprisun

We would never create something that would be capable of taking over the world. Why make a self-aware robot that has the ability to make decisions, and then give it to capability to carry a weapon?

Yeah, we would never create something that has the capability of destroying the entire planet Earth....

**mindwanderer** · 02-11-2010 06:27 AM

I agree. Technology is only as smart as we make it.

You'd think.......

We would never create something that would be capable of taking over the world.

Who's to say? And even assuming we wouldn't, accidents happen you know.

Why make a self-aware robot that has the ability to make decisions, and then give it to capability to carry a weapon?

Dunno... ask the 1000's of scientists across various govmnts (including US and Canada). We're working at self-aware artificially intelligent robots, robots that can rebuild themselves, robot that can predict complex behaviours and robots that can kill people... Seems like a good idea to have a bunch of smart killer robots on your side... at first.

I think humans are smart enough not to do that.

HAHAHA

You're giving the human race more credit than it deserves. We've commited genocide, started wars for money, and accepted religion without question for as long as we've been around. It's clear you and I aren't talking about the same humans... since the humans I know are not only capable... but possible 'dumb' enough to do it... if not intentionally... then by accident.

Even if a robot can become self-aware, it is a stretch to think we can completely replicate human consciousness.

You'd know? Of course

Seriously... if we can make a bunch of circuits, wires, and micro-processors able to comprehend that they are a bunch of circuits, wires, and processors then anything is possible. Once you're self aware there isn't much further to go. Plus... I'm not saying they'll replicate human conciousness... they'll have their own... which will probably be far superior to ours assuming they get that far.

We have to completely understand it ourselves before we can replicate it.

Possibly true, but we aren't far off anyways... and it's possible that some freak accident could endow our metallic friends with conciousness! Guess how we started? A bunch of gases and molecules, then single cells, then multiple cells, and then a few millions years down the line you've got a bunch of self-aware 'intelligent' things walking around. We were a freak accident... one in a bazillion... think about it...

And I think creativity and human ingenuity always trumps a robot in a fight, humans could easily find a way to destroy an army of robots.

Wow... you seem to know everything eh?

We can't even win the war on drugs and terrorism... let alone hard, mechanical, killing machines with no distractions (politics/religion) and with no need for air or water... quite possibly self-replicating/repairing. If it gets as far as that... we're screwed. Don't kid yourself... We'd be trying to find a diplomatic solution with all our morals and stuff... while they'd be gassing our atmosphere killing us off.

Science fiction isn't always a good prediction of the future. According to science fiction movies, we should be driving hover cars by now.

True... isn't ALWAYS... is sometimes though.

btw... this is a lot of what ifs, theoretical questions, and a little bit of satire... don't take it TOO seriously. I'm just showing you potential flaws in all your seemingly 'common knowledge'. If the answer was as obvious as you're saying... then these conversations wouldn't even be necessary.

**Caprisun** · 02-11-2010 09:21 AM

Originally Posted by mindwanderer

You'd think.......

Who's to say? And even assuming we wouldn't, accidents happen you know.

Dunno... ask the 1000's of scientists across various govmnts (including US and Canada). We're working at self-aware artificially intelligent robots, robots that can rebuild themselves, robot that can predict complex behaviours and robots that can kill people... Seems like a good idea to have a bunch of smart killer robots on your side... at first.

HAHAHA

You're giving the human race more credit than it deserves. We've commited genocide, started wars for money, and accepted religion without question for as long as we've been around. It's clear you and I aren't talking about the same humans... since the humans I know are not only capable... but possible 'dumb' enough to do it... if not intentionally... then by accident.

You'd know? Of course

Seriously... if we can make a bunch of circuits, wires, and micro-processors able to comprehend that they are a bunch of circuits, wires, and processors then anything is possible. Once you're self aware there isn't much further to go. Plus... I'm not saying they'll replicate human conciousness... they'll have their own... which will probably be far superior to ours assuming they get that far.

Possibly true, but we aren't far off anyways... and it's possible that some freak accident could endow our metallic friends with conciousness! Guess how we started? A bunch of gases and molecules, then single cells, then multiple cells, and then a few millions years down the line you've got a bunch of self-aware 'intelligent' things walking around. We were a freak accident... one in a bazillion... think about it...

Wow... you seem to know everything eh?

We can't even win the war on drugs and terrorism... let alone hard, mechanical, killing machines with no distractions (politics/religion) and with no need for air or water... quite possibly self-replicating/repairing. If it gets as far as that... we're screwed. Don't kid yourself... We'd be trying to find a diplomatic solution with all our morals and stuff... while they'd be gassing our atmosphere killing us off.

True... isn't ALWAYS... is sometimes though.

btw... this is a lot of what ifs, theoretical questions, and a little bit of satire... don't take it TOO seriously. I'm just showing you potential flaws in all your seemingly 'common knowledge'. If the answer was as obvious as you're saying... then these conversations wouldn't even be necessary.

"Who's to say? And even assuming we wouldn't, accidents happen you know."

Accidentally create something that can take over the world? I can't imagine a scenario where that could possibly happen.

"Dunno... ask the 1000's of scientists across various govmnts (including US and Canada). We're working at self-aware artificially intelligent robots, robots that can rebuild themselves, robot that can predict complex behaviours and robots that can kill people... Seems like a good idea to have a bunch of smart killer robots on your side... at first."

The only robots that can kill are controlled by humans. I think I can comfortably say robots that independently make the decision to kill will never be created, certainly not mass produced. Keep in mind this technology would need to be approved by a large number of people before it is mass produced, it will never happen.

"HAHAHA
You're giving the human race more credit than it deserves. We've commited genocide, started wars for money, and accepted religion without question for as long as we've been around. It's clear you and I aren't talking about the same humans... since the humans I know are not only capable... but possible 'dumb' enough to do it... if not intentionally... then by accident."

This is an awful argument. You aren't giving humans enough credit. Everything you described can be attributed to psychological blemishes on an otherwise remarkable capacity for creative and critical thinking. I am talking about the humans that have built sprawling metropolises, put men on the moon, flown robots to Mars, harnessed the power of electricity, built cars, airplanes, telescopes that can see to the edge of the universe, developed live-saving medicines etc. You think we can't figure out how to kill robots? Aren't robots allergic to water?

"You'd know? Of course Seriously... if we can make a bunch of circuits, wires, and micro-processors able to comprehend that they are a bunch of circuits, wires, and processors then anything is possible. Once you're self aware there isn't much further to go. Plus... I'm not saying they'll replicate human conciousness... they'll have their own... which will probably be far superior to ours assuming they get that far."

Yes I'd know. The number of neurons that make up a human brain is so large that said brain can't even comprehend it's size, at least not without getting a headache. Accurately replicating the brain is a feat that I think is too staggering for humans to accomplish, not in this millenium. There is still so much we don't know about psychology. How is robot consciousness different than human consciousness? How is it better? Why would we want it to have such a "superior" consciousness. What exactly does it mean to have a superior consciousness anyways? I thought consciousness just meant being aware of yourself.

"Possibly true, but we aren't far off anyways... and it's possible that some freak accident could endow our metallic friends with conciousness! Guess how we started? A bunch of gases and molecules, then single cells, then multiple cells, and then a few millions years down the line you've got a bunch of self-aware 'intelligent' things walking around. We were a freak accident... one in a bazillion... think about it... "

Actually, we are extremely far off. I mean light years away. I might be so bold as to say we will never fully understand the depths of it's complexity. And somehow I don't think lightning will strike consciousness into robots.

"Wow... you seem to know everything eh? We can't even win the war on drugs and terrorism... let alone hard, mechanical, killing machines with no distractions (politics/religion) and with no need for air or water... quite possibly self-replicating/repairing. If it gets as far as that... we're screwed. Don't kid yourself... We'd be trying to find a diplomatic solution with all our morals and stuff... while they'd be gassing our atmosphere killing us off."

No need to get cheeky, Im just offering my opinions. Don't you think we would take some security measures into account before we mass produce an army of self-aware, killer robots? Maybe form some emergency plans in case our worst nightmares were realized? Maybe a virus installed in every machine before hand, then said virus can be activated at the touch of a button. But I know what you will say. "The robots are so smart that they will somehow get rid of the virus." Well, we could also exploit some physical weakness, there is an infinite number of reasons why a robot army could never take over the world. Im pretty sure I could kill one with my garden hose, a robot can't repair itself if it's dead. Perhaps the most important flaw with this scenario is that an army of "super-counscious," killer robots would serve no purpose in this world. Warfare has evolved past the point of large standing armies doing battle across a large field.

"True... isn't ALWAYS... is sometimes though."

In what instances?