Thread: Gulf Oil Spill - Solution restores the environment in just six weeks.

Doesn't really address my point that the people who have the expertise in this area and had more to lose than anybody else from a spill are BP themselves.

It's an accident. It's collateral damage of a petroleum based civilisation. Accept it, or stop using petroleum.

Because we pay billions of dollars in taxes every year, and the one job that the government actually should be doing is helping during big disasters like that. And because they are forcing BP to jump through a lot of red tape before trying every action, making the process way slower than it otherwise would be.

They either need to get out of the way, or do something. Sitting around on the side lines, wasting money, critizing people, and making everything take five times as long to do, doesn't really help.

Also people are upset because the government is acting like they are handling it and they are telling people they are handling it, but we all know they are not doing anything.

Originally Posted by Xei

the people who...had more to lose than anybody else from a spill are BP themselves.

Originally Posted by Alric

Because we pay billions of dollars in taxes every year, and the one job that the government actually should be doing is helping during big disasters like that.

Wait, you said "any time people watch the news and the government is involved they are bound to get upset". So the government is involved by not being involved?

I bet you'd have some reason to complain if the federal government had stepped in weeks ago anyways.

Did the government cause the oil spill too?

Originally Posted by dream yogi

Thank you for a completely pointless equivocation.

Right, the birds died, they lost more, well done. That really doesn't help when we were talking about the human motives of BP and everybody else, who are, get this, not birds.

Originally Posted by Alric

Because we pay billions of dollars in taxes every year, and the one job that the government actually should be doing is helping during big disasters like that. And because they are forcing BP to jump through a lot of red tape before trying every action, making the process way slower than it otherwise would be.

They either need to get out of the way, or do something. Sitting around on the side lines, wasting money, critizing people, and making everything take five times as long to do, doesn't really help.

Also people are upset because the government is acting like they are handling it and they are telling people they are handling it, but we all know they are not doing anything.

This is really out of my scope of knowledge as I don't live in the US, where this seems to have been blown epically out of proportion in the media in lieu of anything genuinely ghastly occurring. Maybe the US government isn't doing its best, I really have no idea. But it's not really what I was talking about.

Originally Posted by Spartiate

Wait, you said "any time people watch the news and the government is involved they are bound to get upset". So the government is involved by not being involved?

I bet you'd have some reason to complain if the federal government had stepped in weeks ago anyways.

Did the government cause the oil spill too?

The government didn't cause the oil spill. If it did, it was indirectly through not making sure proper safety procedure was being heeded. The only thing the government is doing is that it was using the Air Force to drop millions of gallons of chemicals into the ocean to break up the oil. The difficulty I see with the handling of the spill is that it is pointless until the oil spill source has been stopped. Realistically, the main thing the chemicals are really doing is just eliminating the top surface of the oil, which hides the visual extent of the damage from the public. Recently, the military trained and handed over the flying of the planes to private interests, I'm assuming BP or another corporation, which will resume dumping of the chemicals into the ocean.

What the government needs to be doing is stopping the source. Who gives a flip who caused it? If the source of the oil leak isn't stopped, it puts people's lives and ecosystems at major risk, which it will most definitely affect us economically. The most expensive part is cleaning up the mess, not stopping the oil from spewing out at the bottom of the ocean floor. With how things are being handled, handled illogically, the extent of the crisis is probably far far worse than they are saying. There is now talk that it was a sub surface blow-out or was turned into a sub surface blow-out when they tried their top kill method.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5utdssJ2CoQ

I'm starting to wonder how big the break in the surface really is or if their are multiple breaks in the surface leaking oil. Thinking in this aspect, a nuclear device might not even be viable, which means it could leak for 30 years.

Originally Posted by Xei

Thank you for a completely pointless equivocation.

You claim that this hurt BP more than anyone so I would assume that you must be smarter than all the scientists in the world who do not know what this gusher will do to the food chain.

You claim that this hurt BP more than anyone so I would assume that you must be so empathic as to feel the pain of all the BP invested pensioners above and beyond the pain of the survivors of loved ones lost to a disaster caused by BP's greed and flagrant disregard for the safety of even their own employees.

So smart. So sensitive. & so considerate in your responses. You must be very proud of yourself.

Originally Posted by Xei

This is really out of my scope of knowledge as I don't live in the US, where this seems to have been blown epically out of proportion in the media in lieu of anything genuinely ghastly occurring. Maybe the US government isn't doing its best, I really have no idea. But it's not really what I was talking about.

I think he was answering my post. The US government has delegated the responsibility of stopping the spill to BP and isn't really involved in the process of containing the leak itself.

Originally Posted by ArcanumNoctis

The government didn't cause the oil spill. If it did, it was indirectly through not making sure proper safety procedure was being heeded. The only thing the government is doing is that it was using the Air Force to drop millions of gallons of chemicals into the ocean to break up the oil. The difficulty I see with the handling of the spill is that it is pointless until the oil spill source has been stopped. Realistically, the main thing the chemicals are really doing is just eliminating the top surface of the oil, which hides the visual extent of the damage from the public. Recently, the military trained and handed over the flying of the planes to private interests, I'm assuming BP or another corporation, which will resume dumping of the chemicals into the ocean.

I know, I was mostly poking fun at how Alric likes to blame the government for everything even though they aren't really involved. I think the current plan involves drilling a couple relief wells to slow or stop the spill, but that won't be ready for a few months.

Originally Posted by Spartiate

I think the current plan involves drilling a couple relief wells to slow or stop the spill, but that won't be ready for a few months.

Yes, but the only reason we think the relief wells will work is because that is what BP said, which they already aren't being straight forward with the full picture. My question is what if after they finish the relief wells, they underestimate, and the oil still leaks from the surface. There seems to be a multitude of factors at play, which is why they are being all hush hush and the government is playing stupid.

Only time will tell.

Lets hope BP fixes the spill before they go bankrupt over this .

Originally Posted by dream yogi

You claim that this hurt BP more than anyone so I would assume that you must be smarter than all the scientists in the world who do not know what this gusher will do to the food chain.

You claim that this hurt BP more than anyone so I would assume that you must be so empathic as to feel the pain of all the BP invested pensioners above and beyond the pain of the survivors of loved ones lost to a disaster caused by BP's greed and flagrant disregard for the safety of even their own employees.

So smart. So sensitive. & so considerate in your responses. You must be very proud of yourself.

Please stop wasting time with these kind of posts.

The point I made was clearly that BP have huge interests in something like this not occurring. Maybe large damage will be done to marine life (not that anybody cares about that, the stark facts presented about fish stocks are totally ignored by governments in general); and obviously the casualties involved are tragic. But none of these things have anything to do with the point I was making.

Originally Posted by Xei

Please stop wasting time with these kind of posts....none of these things have anything to do with the point I was making.

Originally Posted by Xei

my point that the people who have the expertise in this area and had more to lose than anybody else from a spill are BP themselves.

.

"More to lose than anybody".

"One hell of a lot to lose [but patently not as much as the people who died; yes apparently it is necessary to state something as stupid as this]".

Either one of these can be substituted into what I'm saying without any difference at all to the meaning. I really don't have time for talking about random minutia without any kind of consideration of the context of the whole purpose of what I was saying, for no apparent reason whatsoever. Please respond with thought to the points I have been making, and not ridiculous points which I was obviously not trying to make, or I won't bother responding to you. :l

Originally Posted by Xei

the people who died...as stupid as this".

Originally Posted by Xei

the people who died...as stupid as this".

Originally Posted by Xei

the people who died...as stupid as this".

Originally Posted by Xei

the people who died...as stupid as this".

Originally Posted by Xei

the people who died...as stupid as this".

http://e360.yale.edu/content/feature.msp?id=2284

e360: The estimates are now, if you take the high end of the government [estimate], roughly 40 million gallons of oil out there in the Gulf somewhere. What’s your assessment of what the impact on the whole ecosystem will be over time?

Shirley: It will be devastating.

...

e360: What is going to bear the brunt as far as sea life goes? Is it the smaller organisms? Is it the larger organisms that perhaps bear the impact of bio-accumulation of some of these toxics?

Shirley: They all will... if we look at other areas like Prince William Sound, now 21 years after the Exxon Valdez in which there were only 11 million gallons lost. And, all of that at the surface, not coming from 5,000 feet, no deep plumes.

There are still 21,000 gallons of oil [in Prince William Sound] that you can dip your hand into that smells and it’s liquid. You can touch it. You can feel it. It’s still killing animals.

Originally Posted by Xei

my point that the people who...had more to lose than anybody else from a spill are BP themselves.

Originally Posted by Spartiate

Wait, you said "any time people watch the news and the government is involved they are bound to get upset". So the government is involved by not being involved?

Obviously you didn't read my entire post. Since I already explained how the government is in fact involved in it. They are not physically doing anything, but they are very much involved in slowly down BP reponse by bogging everything down in red tape. BP isn't allowed to do anything to clean up the spill without first asking the governments permission, then a few days later the government may or may not give its permission. So BP basically has to sit around and do nothing while waiting for government to respond to them.

Now if BP wanted to do some crazy plan, then checking with the government first is a good idea. However having to ask the government and waits days for an answer, to do basic clean up stuff, that has been done thousands of times before, is silly.

You're approaching trolling territory now, dream yogi. You totally ignored what I just said, and now you're taking even more quotes completely out of context (not only that but literally removing entire sections to make them say something I didn't), from the very post in which I told you exactly what my position was and that you should stop behaving like this.

YES this is a tragedy, YES OBVIOUSLY anybody or anything which DIES has CLEARLY lost more than the people who work for BP, it's something I felt could be left unsaid due to its UTTER INANITY, and NO you still haven't addressed any SEMBLANCE of the point I was actually making so could you PLEASE either do so or refrain from replying at all.

The Caps aren't supposed to be rude, they're just an attempt to highlight to you what I'm actually saying, which so far you've either ignored or misunderstood.

Originally Posted by Alric

Obviously you didn't read my entire post. Since I already explained how the government is in fact involved in it. They are not physically doing anything, but they are very much involved in slowly down BP reponse by bogging everything down in red tape. BP isn't allowed to do anything to clean up the spill without first asking the governments permission, then a few days later the government may or may not give its permission. So BP basically has to sit around and do nothing while waiting for government to respond to them.

Now if BP wanted to do some crazy plan, then checking with the government first is a good idea. However having to ask the government and waits days for an answer, to do basic clean up stuff, that has been done thousands of times before, is silly.

Given that the spill isn't fixed, and BP has run out of ideas, does it really matter? How has waiting a few days for federal approval (which is expected to happen when you're incompetent enough to have your rig blow up causing a major spill) negatively impacted fixing the problem?

Something interesting to note is that there was an oil spill in the Gulf in 1979(?) by a different oil company. They used the exact same fail-safe techniques now as before. The only way they managed to stop it was about six months later with two relief wells. The difference between now and then? Then it was an oil spill just two hundred and fifty feet deep, now we have an oil spill that is thousands of feet deep. Also, it didn't enter the high speed ocean current that goes out to the Atlantic ocean.

Originally Posted by Xei

...anybody or anything which DIES has CLEARLY lost more than the people who work for BP, it's something I felt could be left unsaid due to i(t)s UTTER INANITY...

Regardless your impudence displayed in defense of them, BP does not get to play martyr, so your point is moot. You don't have an argument. All you have is an attitude.

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2010/...n-beneath.html

Originally Posted by ArcanumNoctis

...Then it was an oil spill just two hundred and fifty feet deep, now we have an oil spill that is thousands of feet deep. Also, it didn't enter the high speed ocean current that goes out to the Atlantic ocean.

And this time they might have damaged the ocean floor (see link above). This is not good.

Originally Posted by ArcanumNoctis

Yes, but the only reason we think the relief wells will work is because that is what BP said, which they already aren't being straight forward with the full picture. My question is what if after they finish the relief wells, they underestimate, and the oil still leaks from the surface.

Why would the relief wells not stop it?

You have a bucket with water in it and a piece of wood on top. You drill a hole in the wood, stick a pipe in a suck water out. The bucket gets a hole in it and water starts leaking out. You need to get as much water as possible out before it all leaks on to the ground. You drill two more holes in the wood and get two other people to suck the water through those pipes. You will get all the water eventually. Why would there be more left still spilling out? You just keep going until it's all gone.

Originally Posted by tommo

Why would the relief wells not stop it?

You have a bucket with water in it and a piece of wood on top. You drill a hole in the wood, stick a pipe in a suck water out. The bucket gets a hole in it and water starts leaking out. You need to get as much water as possible out before it all leaks on to the ground. You drill two more holes in the wood and get two other people to suck the water through those pipes. You will get all the water eventually. Why would there be more left still spilling out? You just keep going until it's all gone.

That isn't exactly how the relief wells work, which I'll explain. The pipe is thousands of feet below the ocean. Not only is pressure enormously incredible, but the pipe isn't very big in circumference. Not only do they have to drill the relief wells, but they have to get the drilled holes one thousand feet below the surface right next to the pipe and then punch a hole in it. Drilling to the pipe is almost like finding a needle in a haystack. After punching a hole in it, with the relief wells attached, the pressure in the pipe will be reduced so that they can plug it up. The only time they have done this before was in 1979 when there was an oil leak two hundred and fifty feet below the ocean. They aren't drilling the relief wells five thousand feet below the surface of the ocean floor directly into the pool of oil because that wouldn't do anything. Sure, they could stop it if they pumped all the oil out of the oil reserve under the surface of the ocean floor, but that would probably take thirty years. That is how big the oil reserve is down there.

Now that is just one picture. The other picture is that there are probably fractures in the ocean floor, especially since they tried their top kill solution. There is the possibility it is a sub-surface blow out, which mean when they tried to jam material into the pipe the immense pressure busted the pipe open one thousand feet underground. On top of that, to account for the amount of oil that has already been released into the ocean, there are fears the oil isn't just leaking from the pipe. There could be oil leaking from one or multiple surface fractures a mile or more away. If this is the case, only a nuke can seal the oil leak. The catch though is all fractures would have to be sealed instantly, which if one isn't sealed, the ocean floor could give way at that location due to the immense pressure.

As much information coming out of the Soviet Union was under strict state control, we might not really know true results of when they exploded their nuke to seal a well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CpPNQoTlacU

And now we see the US government trying to restrict what information is reported on this gulf gusher.

Regardless your impudence displayed in defense of them, BP does not get to play martyr, so your point is moot. You don't have an argument. All you have is an attitude.

I don't believe you did it again with my quote...

I don't know what you're here for but it's clearly not conversation. Don't bother responding to any of my posts from now on because I'm putting you on my ignore list.

Originally Posted by Xei

I'm putting you on my ignore list.

Goodnight. Sweet dreams, baby.