Thread: Repeating Dreams But With A More Favourable Course And Outcome

Did these paired dreams occur immediately after each other on the same night, or separately?

I have re-dreamed certain dreams, and changed them in the process, but I'm not sure offhand if I improved them or not - I'd need to check my DJ for that. I doubt that I improved on them though, because in my case I'm sure that the re-dreaming was due to my deeply held desire to recall all my dreams. I had developed a technique of reciting my dreams verbally (but silently if that makes sense - subvocally) as if telling them to a friend, which I would do during mid-sleep awakenings rather than switching on a light to write them down. I found the act of verbalizing them impressed the dreams into my conscious mind well enough that I'd still remember them hours later on final awakening to transcribe them into my DJ.

But this backfired on me because I'd begin to verbalize the dream I had just had while I was still dreaming! The re-dreams were usually accompanied, at least at the beginning, by a sort of voice-over in my head, which gave them away. And as a result when I would finally wake for the day I had very mixed-up memories of 2 dreams that were similar but yet different in many particulars, and sometimes even what I was dreaming the second time would be different from the voice-over in my head! Very confusing!! Finally I had to stop using that technique and eventually I stopped the re-dreaming.

It doesn't sound like that's what's happening in your case though. It sounds like it might simply be your mind's way of imagining events you see as negative in a more positive light. It's common when something has a strong emotional impact on you to dream about it in various different ways (some of the dreams not recognizable as pertaining to the actual event itself, at least not directly, though the emotional content relating nonetheless). So often people can find themselves revisiting emotional events many times in different dreams in a brief period of time, some dreams exploring possible negative outcomes, some exploring more positive and hopeful outcomes.

Yes, I've read a lot of Freud and Jung!

Oh, and I was able once to DEILD and enter into the same dream I had woke from - actually I can remember doing that twice. The dream was slightly different on re-entering though, but in many ways still the same dream.

Originally Posted by Darkmatters

Did these paired dreams occur immediately after each other on the same night, or separately?

They were on following nights - the first couple night after night - the triplet had one day in between.
Maybe I forgot that night´s "episode" though.
Only one dream a night - "daytime-incubation".

Originally Posted by Darkmatters

I have re-dreamed certain dreams, and changed them in the process, but I'm not sure offhand if I improved them or not - I'd need to check my DJ for that.

I doubt that I improved on them though, because in my case I'm sure that the re-dreaming was due to my deeply held desire to recall all my dreams.
I had developed a technique of reciting my dreams verbally (but silently if that makes sense - subvocally) as if telling them to a friend, which I would do during mid-sleep awakenings rather than switching on a light to write them down.

I found the act of verbalizing them impressed the dreams into my conscious mind well enough that I'd still remember them hours later on final awakening to transcribe them into my DJ.

I dictate my dreams - or what I have of them, since joining the forum - using my I-Phone.
This is not telling myself in order to keep it in mind, though - I rather externalize my memories from after waking up directly.
It is not fully satisfactory, how it goes at the moment - me too often being too lazy to press a button and mumble a bit..
Later in the day I write my DJ - and sometimes more memory just surfaces while the day - or when writing.
Only dictating is not enough, I found.
So - I don´t have memories from directly before to take into the next dream.

Originally Posted by Darkmatters

But this backfired on me because I'd begin to verbalize the dream I had just had while I was still dreaming!

The re-dreams were usually accompanied, at least at the beginning, by a sort of voice-over in my head, which gave them away.

And as a result when I would finally wake for the day I had very mixed-up memories of 2 dreams that were similar but yet different in many particulars, and sometimes even what I was dreaming the second time would be different from the voice-over in my head!
Very confusing!! Finally I had to stop using that technique and eventually I stopped the re-dreaming.

Interesting - can you use this state of voice-over to get lucid?

Originally Posted by Darkmatters

It doesn't sound like that's what's happening in your case though. It sounds like it might simply be your mind's way of imagining events you see as negative in a more positive light. It's common when something has a strong emotional impact on you to dream about it in various different ways (some of the dreams not recognizable as pertaining to the actual event itself, at least not directly, though the emotional content relating nonetheless).

So often people can find themselves revisiting emotional events many times in different dreams in a brief period of time, some dreams exploring possible negative outcomes, some exploring more positive and hopeful outcomes.

Yeah - opening this thread is rather premature with two instances - but I thought - ah - it is a forum - and I would like to know, if somebody else has maybe made a similar observation - a dream getting better with repetition in successive nights - or successive dreams.
But - I guess - like you say - just the revisiting is very common - and my "trends" might be just coincidence and wishful thinking.

I even wonder, if this is actually something new - I do not know, what I dreamed before joining up - only exceptional things stuck.
So - maybe it is an effect of journalling - making myself consciously aware of there having taken place something unsatisfying.
And then get at it once more..

Originally Posted by Darkmatters

Yes, I've read a lot of Freud and Jung!

Really?
I spared myself Jung - sampled a bit of Freud and left it at secondary literature for psychoanalysis from there.
Maybe I am being unfair to them..

Originally Posted by Darkmatters

Oh, and I was able once to DEILD and enter into the same dream I had woke from - actually I can remember doing that twice. The dream was slightly different on re-entering though, but in many ways still the same dream.

This I did two nights before for the first time - very nice - see DJ if you want to.
LD - awake - asleep and LD back instantly.
But much too short, these two - very late in the morning - too late, I guess.

Cheers for your answer!

Originally Posted by StephL

Only dictating is not enough, I found.

Well, my technique of verbalizing a dream is only enough to keep it until the final awakening - then I need to make sure to go over it again (it can be just sub-vocalized again) or it will disappear into the memory-void.

Originally Posted by StephL

So - I don´t have memories from directly before to take into the next dream.

Have you tried a mantra to set your intentions? That's the moist effective thing I've found in order to get myself to wake up immediately after a dream and be able to clearly remember the dream. I used to use variations on "I wake after each dream, lie perfectly still with eyes closed, and remember the dream (and sometimes, if I want to DEILD, I add "and go back into the dream and become lucid").

In fact I went even a bit farther than just a mantra - I would write in my DJ before sleeping what my intentions were. I might also read the previous night's dream, or write for a while about what I hope to accomplish through the techniques I'm trying etc. I've found it's a great way to really impress ideas firmly into the mind before going to sleep. It works even better than just reviewing a dream subvocally, because writing something really makes you think about it consciously and requires more effort (and your DJ is a special book concerning your dream world). So often I'd do that and also repeat the mantra as I was falling asleep.

I think the problem I had with it though is that I would usually wake at the end of each REM period, and not be able to go right back into a dream. But it is an excellent technique for increasing your recall. It did work sometimes though, usually if I sleep in lat in the morning.

Originally Posted by StephL

Interesting - can you use this state of voice-over to get lucid?

Hmmm - I never tried that. I was never aware there was a voice-over until I'd wake up and remember the dream though. Facepalm time!

Originally Posted by StephL

Really?
I spared myself Jung - sampled a bit of Freud and left it at secondary literature for psychoanalysis from there.
Maybe I am being unfair to them..

Well, I only recommend reading them if you're really fascinated by the mechanics of dreaming and the unconscious. Freud of course was wrong on many counts, though he was the premiere cartographer of the unconscious realm - to this day I don't believe anybody has discovered anywhere near as much about it as he did. Most of what he was wrong about is because he was following restrictive Victorian morals of the day. Reading him can make you feel depressed, as if the internal mind is just a dump of raw sewage and horrible things. Jung on the other hand revised his theories substantially and added the concept of the Collective Unconscious, and his writings are much more forgiving and reassuring than Freud's. In each of their writings I discovered little nuggets of excellent wisdom that I'm glad I found, but I sure did have to read through a lot to find them!

Originally Posted by StephL

This I did two nights before for the first time - very nice - see DJ if you want to.
LD - awake - asleep and LD back instantly.
But much too short, these two - very late in the morning - too late, I guess.

Cheers for your answer!

That's how my DEILDs were also - very short and late in the morning. I believe that's when they're most likely to occur. Well wait - I'm not sure just how short yours were - mine were maybe 4 or 5 minutes I think. Not very long as dreams go but still largely satisfying.

Originally Posted by Darkmatters

Well, my technique of verbalizing a dream is only enough to keep it until the final awakening - then I need to make sure to go over it again (it can be just sub-vocalized again) or it will disappear into the memory-void.

I will try out this subvocalizing - this might be just what I need - thank you!
When I am too lazy to press that button - and that is often, unfortunately - I rather hold on to visual scenes.
Sometimes I later only remember these - or small bits around..

Originally Posted by Darkmatters

Have you tried a mantra to set your intentions? That's the moist effective thing I've found in order to get myself to wake up immediately after a dream and be able to clearly remember the dream. I used to use variations on "I wake after each dream, lie perfectly still with eyes closed, and remember the dream (and sometimes, if I want to DEILD, I add "and go back into the dream and become lucid").

Yes - I already do this as well.

Originally Posted by Darkmatters

In fact I went even a bit farther than just a mantra - I would write in my DJ before sleeping what my intentions were. I might also read the previous night's dream, or write for a while about what I hope to accomplish through the techniques I'm trying etc. I've found it's a great way to really impress ideas firmly into the mind before going to sleep. It works even better than just reviewing a dream subvocally, because writing something really makes you think about it consciously and requires more effort (and your DJ is a special book concerning your dream world). So often I'd do that and also repeat the mantra as I was falling asleep.

This sounds also very good - writing intentions down - not only thinking them - next waking day`s night!

Originally Posted by Darkmatters

I think the problem I had with it though is that I would usually wake at the end of each REM period, and not be able to go right back into a dream. But it is an excellent technique for increasing your recall. It did work sometimes though, usually if I sleep in lat in the morning.

How long do you have between REM phases?

Originally Posted by Darkmatters

Hmmm - I never tried that. I was never aware there was a voice-over until I'd wake up and remember the dream though. Facepalm time!

Now - this would be nice, if you´ll get a voice-over LD from this thread!

Originally Posted by Darkmatters

Well, I only recommend reading them if you're really fascinated by the mechanics of dreaming and the unconscious. Freud of course was wrong on many counts, though he was the premiere cartographer of the unconscious realm - to this day I don't believe anybody has discovered anywhere near as much about it as he did. Most of what he was wrong about is because he was following restrictive Victorian morals of the day. Reading him can make you feel depressed, as if the internal mind is just a dump of raw sewage and horrible things.

Jung on the other hand revised his theories substantially and added the concept of the Collective Unconscious, and his writings are much more forgiving and reassuring than Freud's. In each of their writings I discovered little nuggets of excellent wisdom that I'm glad I found, but I sure did have to read through a lot to find them!

I do fully believe you, that there are nuggets of excellent wisdom in their writings.
Concerning Jung - his collective unconsciousness is pure mysticism, and has nothing to do in secular psychotherapy in my eyes.
Nice Quote of his, to demonstrate what I mean:

Originally Posted by Wikipedia

Jung saw the human psyche as "by nature religious"[5] and made this religiousness the focus of his explorations.

I find Jung much more objectionable than the atheist Freud with his drug-problems his misogyny and misanthropy.
But at least Freud didn´t believe in various religious, esoteric and occult ideas, like Jung did.

Originally Posted by Darkmatters

That's how my DEILDs were also - very short and late in the morning. I believe that's when they're most likely to occur. Well wait - I'm not sure just how short yours were - mine were maybe 4 or 5 minutes I think. Not very long as dreams go but still largely satisfying.

The first one was one minute in etwa - the second one maybe four:
Two Short Lucids with Snowman-Efforts - Dream Journals - Lucid Dreaming - Dream Views

Originally Posted by StephL

How long do you have between REM phases?

It varies. At the beginning of the night it's 90 minutes, but the REM phases get longer as the night goes on, so if you sleep for say 10 hours, it will be much less. I don't know by how much though.

Originally Posted by StephL

I find Jung much more objectionable than the atheist Freud with his drug-problems his misogyny and misanthropy.
But at least Freud didn´t believe in various religious, esoteric and occult ideas, like Jung did.

Yes, I was very shocked to discover how religious Jung was, though it took me a while to realize it since in his early writings he never talked about it or let it affect his studies. But his collective unconscious was not at all supernatural or metaphysical, not in the beginning anyway. In fact he had to write a piece correcting the popular notion, even during his lifetime, that it was. Immediately people who want to believe in supernatural things latched onto it with a complete misunderstanding. They thought he meant there's some sort of psychic common ground where everyone's unconscious minds can meet and share thoughts.

It didn't mean that AT ALL!! He divided the unconscious into 2 parts - the part Freud had explored (which Jung called the personal unconscious) and the collective, which houses the archetypes. It's collective, not because of some mystical connection between minds via telepathy or anything, but because we all share our ancestry as human beings. It's like the instincts which we know animals have - from birth infant mammals know to be frightened of a certain shape of shadow crossing the sky overhead (hawk or eagle shape) or of snakes or spiders. How do they all know this without being taught? It's somehow encoded into the DNA. The collective unconscious is basically an extension of instincts. And it's the reason why so many dream symbols mean the same thing even in widely different cultures around the world.

Most dreams concern only the personal unconscious - so the symbols' meaning will vary from person to person depending on their experiences. Its mostly just in very troubling or important times that the archetypes will show up, and archetypal dreams have a very different character than personal ones do.

Though apparently later in his life even Jung himself had mystical ideas concerning the telepathic nature of the collective unconscious. Personally, I don't let that detract from the brilliance of the discovery itself. Sure, he was a bit nuts - what psychologist isn't? It's generally why they become interested in psychology in the first place, to try to fix their problems.

Originally Posted by Darkmatters

...
Though apparently later in his life even Jung himself had mystical ideas concerning the telepathic nature of the collective unconscious. Personally, I don't let that detract from the brilliance of the discovery itself. Sure, he was a bit nuts - what psychologist isn't?

It's generally why they become interested in psychology in the first place, to try to fix their problems.

He actually had them from the onset - but before his break-up with Freud - Freud kept the lid on things pretty harshly.
Psychotherapy as such was completely novel - and the times not exactly suited for it´s emergence - so there was a lot of opposition.
Especially also attempts to chalk it all off as imagination running free and away with the founders.

So he urged Jung to hold back with his esoteric notions - not to bring into disrepute the whole project of theirs.
There is a Cronenberg movie - "A Dangerous Method", where this conflict is shortly portrayed as well.

Edit: It would be a lot of effort and I will not go at reading up on it now - but if I am not mistaken - the collective unconsciousness does simply make no sense on a materialistic background.
I am pretty sure, that this is so - even if it is not directly spelled out besides it - this phenomenon can simply not be as he described it, when you think on a scientific basis - it needs at least some sort of esoteric piece of foundation-idea for it to work at all. I do not think, it is compatible with this surely existing, but unknown to him - gene-coded pre-knowledge we all have.
Please correct me, if you think, I am mistaken!


Aand - steer clear from generalisations, please - you surely are correct in as far as one of the prime motivational backgrounds for taking up such a profession is indeed extended self-help in varying degrees.
But that is not all there is, which makes people take up the subject.

It can well be also having a personal experience with another person, with mental illness and witnessing how the course of their lives enfolds - and how much good or bad influence there has been from the psychiatric/psychological profession.
Wanting to do the good work as well - or wanting to improve/change/expand/whatever the current practice.

Another big one is pure fascination with neurobiology and brain-function.

Once you think this over - the road is not actually leading towards neurology, which is concerned with everything neuronal - except for systematically reaching into the sphere of the mind.
Not really so fashionable, the mind, until lately where more is being found out on a real scientific basis.
But it is the mind-brain, which needs a lot of science being done - the most complex and such most interesting neuronal phenomenon.

Going beyond pure psychological questionnaires - which are great of course as well - if you read this Mel - thanks once more for doing just such a study on LD!!
Medical consciousness-research and also sleep and LD studies are mainly done by psychiatrists.

This is a motivation completely free of the concept of helping somebody directly with personal interaction.

Another one yet would be to primarily want to spread one´s concept of spirituality, by "helping others" - but I think those are rare among psychologists and rarer yet among psychiatrists. There are many free-lance people on the "psychic" side of affairs - but there you are at least not deceived by some university degree or other.
You know, that you have to use your own judgement.

Such an esoteric mission - if somebody does get her degrees despite it - goes under at least latently nuts as well for me, though.

But in the end of the day - many shrinks have probably a rich wealth of personal experiences to go with their knowledge - hopefully enabling them to better understand and help their patients.

I don't see any reason that the collective unconscious would be any different from the instincts born into animals - if they know instinctively to flee from a hawk-shaped shadow but not a bluejay-shaped shadow, why couldn't we have archetypes built in as well? It wasn't necessary of course for Jung to understand the mechanism for it, only to observe it among countless people. Are you saying humans are the only animals that don't have instincts? Or maybe that instincts in animals are a myth?

I was really just joking about all psychologists being crazy, though of course there is a seed of truth in it. I'll freely admit my own interest in psychology was born of my 'issues' (not that I'm a psychologist of course). And many might have an interest because of some family member or fried who has issues, like the way Alexander Graham Bell worked on hearing aids because his parents (or one of them?) were deaf. But then wait - re-thinking this, I'd say I don't actually know ANYBODY who doesn't have mental issues of some kind! Does such a person actually exist? When you get to know anybody well enough I suspect you'll always discover their neuroses. It hasn't failed so far for me (though there's a good chance crazy people attract crazy people… )

Yeah - I don´t say, the concept of archetypes has nothing to it - I think, I´ll read up on it eventually.
It´s not fair to Jung, probably, to dismiss discoveries, even if they are presented on a basis, which is not solid.
And it makes sense as well - as you say - instinctive knowledge.
I know these experiments, where they presented different shapes of birds to - chicken, I think it was - and they reacted instinctively to the bird-of-prey-schema without having any prior experience of it - and good for them, too!
Hm - okay - so you initiated a new interest in this topic for me now - thanks again!

Just an off topic link: http://www.dreamviews.com/research/1...ml#post2065406
Maybe take a peek - I try to spread the word a bit..

Don't know if this relates, but a friend of mine had a consecutive dream for almost a year.

It started out the same way - walking down a dark road, lit by a lone, dim street lamp. She'd get hit by a truck, and 'die'.

This is where things got interesting - each time she relived the dream, she saw a different person reacting to her death. They evolved into OBEs at this point.

Agian, not too sure if it's the same as you're saying here, since she never physically changed the original outcome - but the outcomes did shift, nonetheless.

Originally Posted by DreamscapeGoat

Don't know if this relates, but a friend of mine had a consecutive dream for almost a year.

It started out the same way - walking down a dark road, lit by a lone, dim street lamp. She'd get hit by a truck, and 'die'.

This is where things got interesting - each time she relived the dream, she saw a different person reacting to her death. They evolved into OBEs at this point.

Agian, not too sure if it's the same as you're saying here, since she never physically changed the original outcome - but the outcomes did shift, nonetheless.

It does!
And meanwhile - I have changed my mind on it myself.
I think, I have shifts in outcomes as well - not with a clear tendency towards anything.

Really interesting - not "near-death" experience - but having a dream-death experience - in the classical form of OBE - and then - yepp - lucid - etc..

Does she have to die in her dreams always to have a LD?
Hopefully not!

Originally Posted by StephL

Does she have to die in her dreams always to have a LD?

I certainly hope not - she's never really shared any other experiences with me. May have to prod around to see if there's more.

But, you'd have to admit, it's a fairly easy-to-identify LD trigger.

Yeah - maybe you could tell her your experiences - and show, that you are open and able to understand - maybe tell her about the forum?
If you like her -wouldn´t that be great to have a real life companion?

Originally Posted by StephL

Yeah - maybe you could tell her your experiences - and show, that you are open and able to understand - maybe tell her about the forum?

I plan to let her know of my own LD experiences - probably let her flick through the dream journal as well. Who knows, maybe there was a shared dream in there somewhere.

Originally Posted by StephL

If you like her -wouldn´t that be great to have a real life companion?

Have to admit, I do feel attached to her - however, it's hard to manage a relationship when she's off in college while I'm stuck here, about to move in 6 weeks. However, she comes back for a month because college kicks her out 'till Jan. 16th <:

But hey, it's a thought - using LD experiences as a pick-up line. flawless

That is a phantastic pick-up-line!!
Good luck!