Thread: Is lucid dreaming better than real life?

Originally posted by sjpage
This may all be a little deep but

have has anyone ever considered that LD's are the place where we are supposed to exist not here !

in your mind you can conceive the possibility of infinity and understand it
in life can you ?

so when you travel through space and get to the end of the stars whats after them
so when you get to the end of time whats after it

in your mind time and space have no relevance, maybe when we all die this is where we all end up and we spend our time trying to enter the RW (real world) not the LD a ?

if no one asks the question there not need be an answer

LOl who knows and who cares a


Stef

We are not "supposed" to be anything, nor exist anywhere, but let's ignore that little detail for now. We can't possibly "suppose" to exist in LD's, since then we would be incapable of physically sustaining ourselves. Pwned.

Also, I'm pretty sure that after we die, we don't go into LD's. Do the dead have REM?

I pick... stay the way i am.

I have my own special thing here, instead of an occaisional lucid, lucidity and life pretty much split it 50/50 and i'm great with that. Even if it seems like i'm losing out on a lot with all the extra sleep my body needs, I get to live almost twice as much than a usual person can.

Here's some pros and cons for you

Lucid pros; You control your surroundings. People mostly don't yell at you and if they do, you can kill them. You can do all kinds of wild stuff, like flying.

Lucid cons; (for most people, not me) there's not really a limit, so where's the challenge?

Life's pros and cons are pretty much the opposite. You can add onto this if you like.

You know, I view this constant-lucid-dreaming idea a little like incest. There is not enough diversity because new genes don't flow into the system, so the offspring turn out sick. Similarly, there is not enough diversity because new thoughts, perspectives, experiences and opinions don't flow into the system, so your psychology turns out sick.

Now who says you have to spend that LD alone? Why not have mutual Lucid dreams where you can experience this all with your family and friends?

SOunds like heaven to me... then again, eventually heaven would get offly boring don't you think? you eventually do everything fun there is... and there isn't much to explore after you've seen everything, cause there is no limit...

Without challenge... living sucks ass.

-Daniel

[quote]

Now who says you have to spend that LD alone? Why not have mutual Lucid dreams where you can experience this all with your family and friends?



Because that's impossible.

[quote]

Now who says you have to spend that LD alone? Why not have mutual Lucid dreams where you can experience this all with your family and friends?



Because that's impossible.

LOL, Um and having a lucid dream as a life is possible?

Besides, you don't know everything, you don't know thats impossible. And this is just fantasy that we're talking about anyway. Unless it's going to be like the movie "Vanilla Sky" or something.

-Daniel

If Id have to pick I would say a lcuid dream. Lucid dream is just like life, only that you have magic powers. hehe. And if people say you owudl never experince anything new thats wrong, I have expeirneced so mnay new things in my lucid dreams, such as flying, meeting new interesting people. Also, you ocudl do so manythings that you cannot do in real life. Life is awomse, but living in an lucid dream would be have more pros than cons.

Originally posted by Syntex



LOL, Um and having a lucid dream as a life is possible?

Less impossible than dream sharing.

Besides, you don't know everything, you don't know thats impossible. And this is just fantasy that we're talking about anyway. Unless it's going to be like the movie \"Vanilla Sky\" or something.

-Daniel[/b]

I know quite a lot though, and I'm somewhat... who am I kidding? ABSOLUTELY sure it's impossible.

Originally posted by barbizzle
If Id have to pick I would say a lcuid dream. Lucid dream is just like life, only that you have magic powers. hehe. And if people say you owudl never experince anything new thats wrong, I have expeirneced so mnay new things in my lucid dreams, such as flying, meeting new interesting people. Also, you ocudl do so manythings that you cannot do in real life. Life is awomse, but living in an lucid dream would be have more pros than cons.

Those are NOT new experiences, they are still generated by your imagination. Until you try real skydiving, for example, chances are that you'll never get the experience quite right in your dreams. And the choise is NOT "all or nothing" - choosing Real Life would still allow you to go lucid occasionally, just like it happens in reality. Frankly, anyone who wants to leave in an illusionary world has some mental issues. It's tempting, but it's not the real thing.

Originally posted by Wicked+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wicked)</div>

<!--QuoteBegin-Syntex

LOL, Um and having a lucid dream as a life is possible?

Less impossible than dream sharing.

Besides, you don't know everything, you don't know thats impossible. And this is just fantasy that we're talking about anyway. Unless it's going to be like the movie \"Vanilla Sky\" or something.

-Daniel[/b]

I know quite a lot though, and I'm somewhat... who am I kidding? ABSOLUTELY sure it's impossible.[/b]

First off, nothing is more or less impossible... if its impossible its impossible...
I think you ment improbable.
If you mean that, you'd have to know everything or most things in order to make a guess on what is impossible or highly improbable.
It's like saying 85% of the people one earth believe in Jesus, without asking every single person and knowing their telling the truth. Statistics are bullshit.

Oh and you think you "know alot" huh? compare that to all the infinite things you don't know.

Secondly, Have you ever had a shared dream? If not, who are you to say their not real.

Don't you think its closed minded to say something is impossible dude, without even knowing much about it.

-Daniel

I'm God and I know everything, your all wrong... and if you argue with me, your insane.

I prefer lucid dreams, but you cant get rid of real life.

Originally posted by Wicked+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wicked)</div>

<!--QuoteBegin-Syntex

LOL, Um and having a lucid dream as a life is possible?

Less impossible than dream sharing.

Besides, you don't know everything, you don't know thats impossible. And this is just fantasy that we're talking about anyway. Unless it's going to be like the movie \"Vanilla Sky\" or something.

-Daniel[/b]

I know quite a lot though, and I'm somewhat... who am I kidding? ABSOLUTELY sure it's impossible.[/b]

It is not impossible at all, considering Syrena & I can share dreams (even she knows about it & tells me). We have done it at least 5 times.

Real life all the way! It's real, for one. But more importantly, choosing real life is choosing both options. You can still lucid dream pretty frequently, whereas in LDs you're entirely limited to your own lonely mind, with no other real people with entirely unique personalities.

Social development, interrelationships, learning is limited to one's mind in the permanant LD state. It's not entirely limiting, as we know our subconscious can mimic these things, but still, the knowledge that we exist only within our selves, and that any images otherwhise are merely mimics, is a great limitation.

LDs are fricken fun, i don't deny it, but i'm sure most've their enjoyment is comparative. Relative to real life, they're such a refreshment. This would also be lost with eternal LDing. Maybe our dreams in LD would let us experience RWL? hohoaooh

I voted for real life. The reason I voted this way is because I would not want to be left inside my mind simply doing things to entertain myself. I wouldn't be able to form any new relationships that have any real worth to them because the characters I would meet would only be aspects of my own mind. Real life can be very lonely let alone a life in which you can only communicate with parts of yourself. Another thing to think about would be this: Humans have insatiable desires. I think that if I were to be in a lucid dream forever instead of real life I would soon begin to miss the real thing. In essence a permanant lucid dream would simply be a prison in which you can manipulate the environment because no new relationships (ones that matter anyway) are formed. Yea I'll stick with things the way they are because I can still visit the world of dreaming and I believe that we were created in such a way for a reason.

Originally posted by Syntex
First off, nothing is more or less impossible... if its impossible its impossible...
I think you ment improbable.

No. I've meant it's impossible, but less of a leap of logic than constant LDing. Or, rather, the difference between impossibility in PRACTICE and impossibility in THEORY. DON'T twist thing to make them sound much simpler than they are.

If you mean that, you'd have to know everything or most things in order to make a guess on what is impossible or highly improbable.
It's like saying 85% of the people one earth believe in Jesus, without asking every single person and knowing their telling the truth. Statistics are bullshit. [/b]

How come? You really DON'T need to ask every person to know that, and statistics ARE reliable.

Oh and you think you \"know alot\" huh? compare that to all the infinite things you don't know.[/b]

Absolutely irrelevant to the issues at hand.

Secondly, Have you ever had a shared dream? If not, who are you to say their not real.[/b]

Did you ever summoned dead spirits, talked with invisible pink unicorns, breathed normally in space while naked, etc etc etc.? If not, who are you to say that's impossible.

I'll tell you who I am. I'm a reasonable person who has enough LEGITIMATE, RELIABLE and most of all - PROVABLE knowlege to tell the difference between truth and bullshit. YOU show ME shared dreaming is possible, not the other way around.

Don't you think its closed minded to say something is impossible dude, without even knowing much about it.

-Daniel[/b]

It's not close minded, it's common sense. I'll give shared dreaming the benefit of the doubt once I get a SHRED of proof it is possible in any form. And it's incredibly easy to prove it to me. Who wants to volunteer trying to share dreams with me? Come on, let's see if this is possible or not.

I'm God and I know everything, your all wrong... and if you argue with me, your insane. [/b]

Actually, you've just made a good parody of dogmatic theists.

I seem to be entering this thread a little late. Ah well...

This question isn't answered so straightforwardly, in my case.
Lucid dreams are great as a holiday spot. But the instability, lack of real basis and general loneliness of 'real' individuals makes it quite a bad place to live permanently.

Even if evidence of shared dreaming was presented, it is obviously not a common and easily achieved occurence.
In other words, I'd still be largely quite alone in my lucid dream life and that would eventually cause complete insanity

[EDIT]Some more thoughts...

It's conceivable that the human mind would become very adept at creating 'real' human personalities in our dreams with practice.
Why isn't this sufficient? I guess because it would mean that those personalities are still within our control, and emergent of our own experiences and understanding. In other words, not truly separate. Too much control = boring ?

This isn't unlike getting a cheat trainer for your favourite game. It's just not fun anymore.

well, i picked lucid.
because there's so many things i want to do at the moment, and it just isn't possible, but lucidity allows me to explore these issues quite safely, and sometimes i want the answer to something difficult, and i can't always get it.

Originally posted by Wicked+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Wicked)</div>

<!--QuoteBegin-Syntex

First off, nothing is more or less impossible... if its impossible its impossible...
I think you ment improbable.

No. I've meant it's impossible, but less of a leap of logic than constant LDing. Or, rather, the difference between impossibility in PRACTICE and impossibility in THEORY. DON'T twist thing to make them sound much simpler than they are.

If you mean that, you'd have to know everything or most things in order to make a guess on what is impossible or highly improbable.
It's like saying 85% of the people one earth believe in Jesus, without asking every single person and knowing their telling the truth. Statistics are bullshit. [/b]

How come? You really DON'T need to ask every person to know that, and statistics ARE reliable.

Oh and you think you \"know alot\" huh? compare that to all the infinite things you don't know.[/b]

Absolutely irrelevant to the issues at hand.

Secondly, Have you ever had a shared dream? If not, who are you to say their not real.[/b]

Did you ever summoned dead spirits, talked with invisible pink unicorns, breathed normally in space while naked, etc etc etc.? If not, who are you to say that's impossible.

I'll tell you who I am. I'm a reasonable person who has enough LEGITIMATE, RELIABLE and most of all - PROVABLE knowlege to tell the difference between truth and bullshit. YOU show ME shared dreaming is possible, not the other way around.

Don't you think its closed minded to say something is impossible dude, without even knowing much about it.

-Daniel[/b]

It's not close minded, it's common sense. I'll give shared dreaming the benefit of the doubt once I get a SHRED of proof it is possible in any form. And it's incredibly easy to prove it to me. Who wants to volunteer trying to share dreams with me? Come on, let's see if this is possible or not.

I'm God and I know everything, your all wrong... and if you argue with me, your insane. [/b]

Actually, you've just made a good parody of dogmatic theists.[/b]

Your taking this too seriously... all I'm saying is that you don't know everything about the mind, we only know a very small part about it. You can't make assumptions of impossibilities. And no there is no impossible theory or whatever, it either is or isn't...because a theory is not an impossibility.

I'm not even saying shared dreaming exists as a fact... I'm merely stating it as a possibility which you find so fun to shoot down, even though you haven't experienced it. Its like saying LUcid dreaming doesn't exist, it's a contradiciton (awake while asleep) but people have experienced it and i believe you have, so you have reason to believe in it. Otherwise there is no PROOF that lucid dreaming exists, and yea it sounds like bullshit to me, doesn't mean I should say it is impossible.

Why don't you try to prove LDs to me under the assumption that i've never experienced one? I'd like to see you try.

-Daniel

part of this thread needs it's ass moved to philosphy. i don't like seeing big arguments here, the philosphy, extended discussion and beyond dreaming areas are the big-scary-argument sanctuaries...not here. this just alienates people. i can split the topic for you if you like, and move it somewhere better?

anyway. sacrificing my life to dream? hell no. i didn't come on this beautiful planet which you don't seem to appreciate just so i could go dream up another one and let this one flounder...

Originally posted by Syntex


Your taking this too seriously... all I'm saying is that you don't know everything about the mind, we only know a very small part about it. You can't make assumptions of impossibilities. And no there is no impossible theory or whatever, it either is or isn't...because a theory is not an impossibility.

I'm not even saying shared dreaming exists as a fact... I'm merely stating it as a possibility which you find so fun to shoot down, even though you haven't experienced it. Its like saying LUcid dreaming doesn't exist, it's a contradiciton (awake while asleep) but people have experienced it and i believe you have, so you have reason to believe in it. Otherwise there is no PROOF that lucid dreaming exists, and yea it sounds like bullshit to me, doesn't mean I should say it is impossible.

Why don't you try to prove LDs to me under the assumption that i've never experienced one? I'd like to see you try.

-Daniel

But there is ample proof it exists. Take a lucid dreamer into a lab, and tell him to give you a sign with his eyes.

Besides, LDing is not physically impossible, while SDing is.

Ok, I'll entertain you. Let's give SD the benefit of the doubt. Find me someone who can do it, put him in a lab, get him to exchange messages with someone miles away through a dream, and see if they know what the other said after waking up. Could be of great use to exchange classified information, for example. Until someone does that, it is impossible as far as I'm concerned, since I tend to believe that the laws of physics are quite universal, and this thing would be violating them.

whatever dude, I don't feel like arguing... and there is no one here who has a lab, but alot of people who can testify that they've had that experience you've set up there.

[quote]

whatever dude, I don't feel like arguing... and there is no one here who has a lab, but alot of people who can testify that they've had that experience you've set up there.





So go ahead and prove it to me conclusively by sharing a dream with me.

Originally posted by Squall
Would you know that you're dreaming? It might as well as be your real life if you never woke up.

In a sense, the Dream Self does have a coherent and independent life... at least my Dream Self has seemed to have so integrated itself. Recently I had a dream where the location seemed familiar, which seemed to turn on my Dream Self's own integral memory, and all sorts of memories poured out regarding that Dream Location. My waking self had none of these memories, and I did not remember any related dreams. It was my Dream Self and my Dream Self alone that seemed to demonstate that even when the rest of Me is awake, the Dream Self retains a certain continuity. Perhaps the Dream Self does not discontinue dreaming because the Waking Self goes into gear. Perhaps the Dream Self continues uninterrupted, conscious of itself, but operating below the awareness of our Waking Consciousness which is preoccupied with concerns of the Waking World. It is like the Stars in the Sky. In the daytime they are still up there, but the brightness of the sun overwhelms and washes out the perceptablity of their Light.

Originally posted by wicked
Ok, I'll entertain you. Let's give SD the benefit of the doubt. Find me someone who can do it, put him in a lab, get him to exchange messages with someone miles away through a dream, and see if they know what the other said after waking up. Could be of great use to exchange classified information, for example. Until someone does that, it is impossible as far as I'm concerned, since I tend to believe that the laws of physics are quite universal, and this thing would be violating them.

If you take our phyce and or conscious out of our perception of the laws of physics and general relitivity and apply it into the realm of quantum physics, anything may be possible.
Such laws are not quite so universal, but rather unknown. Much like our conscious.