Gods, Goddesses and what they are going to do with us.

[Serinanth]

Ok, so since the topic has been coming up lately I figured I would ask, what do all of you think is in store for us? Some of us are pretty damned sure that these shells are no more than just a shell, meaning we dont need them. So what does the one god want from us. I dont care what religion you are its one and all the same thing with a few changes made by humans depending on where they grew up so to speak. I think of it this way... We were created (apply your creation myth or scientific hoohah here, I dont know how it happened, hell I dont remember being born how could I tell ya how we all got here) so we have a parental type figure. Assuming that this creator is indeed benevolent and looks upon us as children... My realization is. What is it that EVERY parent wishes of their offspring. To make it in life better than they did and to surpass them. Every parent wants that right? (I hope so, im not one yet but that is what I will wish and try to make happen for my kids) Wouldent our creator wish the same for us? We are but sleeping gods, everyone. All we have to do is awake, and I think that this is acheived through experiencing life, my church is the entire world, my prayers the appreciation of a sunrise, and the smile I give to a stanger, my choir the wind through the trees and the song of birds. Not just one life, how could you experience the full range of what life has to offer in just one life time, we would be ill prepared. I think our spirits retain all this information of lives lived, the good the bad, being a saint or an evil murderous f&$^, riches, poverty, health, sickness, Light, Dark and all that is between. And then when we finaly figure this whole deal out, we get to create. I dont mean on the small (yet still miraculous) scale of having children in this form, but the whole kit and kaboodle. Soo this is just my crazy idea on whats going on, I am not bashing any religions here just offering my view, please tell me what you think and stuffs and offer up your views, like I said the more info and experience we get the better off we will be.

[Lucid-Wannabe]

Just wondering, what do you belive in?

[Serinanth]

Well... I had a dream and God spoke to me It appeared as a freeflowing entity of blue light it was incredibly beautifull, the sound of the voice was music, the whole aura of the being was benevolent and protective, like being in the presence of both of my parents except a million fold. What is your Life goal? I didnt know, still dont really What is your purpose This response was instant, I've always felt it, and my friends confirm it, they feel safe near me. I replied "To protect" This happened some time ago, I was not keeping a journal then though It said more to me, and I dont even know if it was words. But It made me want to see all of existance to experience what God had created, why else would it be here? why else would we be so curious about it... I plan to live for a very long time and see all that I can see, at the same time be a good person help people that are in need and simply put just be a good person. Call m crazy I guess. People ask What would Jesus do... well I think I know what he would do. Mind you "think"... I am not being sarcastic either. He would get all his friends together make some wine get a fire going and they would hang out, enjoy one anothers company and tell stories about why its right to be a good person, they learned from one another it was not just one way either Jesus was a human being too The problem I have with most of the religions is too much blood has been spilled in their names, dosent sit right, they have the basics right. Basically I am still discovering what I beleive, I dont think I will fully know what I beleive untill I am on or near my death bead. "Life is a lesson, you learn it when your through" (random song quote) It would be nice to know what I beleive before that though, but things are too complicated for me to just up and say hey im Buddist! or I'm a Protestant. If I figure It out I will let ya know. now that I have spilled my guts whatabout you?

[DreamCoil]

*Sits with meaningful look on face while gently caressing Goatee* Hmm yes the eternal question. I grew up without any religion being thrust upon me, my parents decided it would be better if I would choose on my own free will, so I sorta have a strange view on religion and all that creation stuff because I was "observing" if you will. Anyway I would just like to share my own humble opinion on life, god and all that stuff. Here goes (Bare with me) Firstly, I believe it is impossible to know if their is some sort of force that is greater then us, God if you will. To prove it it is impossible, to disprove it is also impossible. The only way to find out is for you to kick the bucket. What is God? Is God this huge power that sits on a cloud passing judgement on us? or his he a being that just has control over all form of energy in the universe (sorta like Yoda) Is it possible that life is just a test? that you live and your deeds are measured and then you are giving the gift of real existence? Apparently the CHRISTIAN god is above human understanding. But yet they tell us what their god wants, so it doesn't seem to be past their understanding now does it? Is it stupid for a person to belive that if you put up with your shit life on earth you will be rewarded by going to heaven and meeting dead people and dance for eternity in the clouds. So if there is a heaven for you then their must be heaven for other creatures to... What I prefer is that man created god. Mans fear of the unknown creates a sustained image of some mighty being that created us, out of fear we create our own misery by saying killing in the name of the god we created... Im sorry people im rambling and I really didn't answer any of the questions I asked, I tend to go of course sorry. Any thoughts are welcome, perhaps you can expand upon my ideas

[zwishenzug]

I believe in the Christian God. Not like most Christians, though. I think most Christians like to believe they have a good grasp of this ungraspable concept which is God. I think (like Socrates) that I know more then they because I acknowledge I don't know anything at all about God. I have a hard time accepting the creation story. It was hand-me-down until Moses finally wrote it down (with the alphabet man finally had). Isaac Newton once said "I have investigated the nature of God, and found Him to be mathematical." That's why snapping His godly fingers isn't enough for me. Maybe that's why evolution follows pretty closely the order in which he created things, starting with "let there be light" and there might've been a big bang. Maybe when on the sixth day and He created man He had aliens come down and mix with cro magnum man and teach them agriculture and mathematics and construction (Genises 6:4 "The Nephalim were on the earth in those day--and also afterward--when the sons of God went to the daughters of men and had children by them. They were the heros of old, men of renown"). Who knows. Also, the myth about the Christian God being all-benevolent is blown out of proportion. The phrase "God is love" appears just a few pages before the end of the Bible (and only once). What I think about heaven I believe completely, and I like my belief because it is based on belief. In one of the last three Johns, he says that in order to be saved you must believe to the point of knowing that Jesus was the messiah, that Jesus was the son of God, and that he died so that sinners (which is all of us) can be with God for eternity. Jesus said that heaven is something unimaginable. I think this may be one of two things. First, I think that when we die, our consciousness might rise to exist as forth dimensional, or outside of time, which would make us eternal. Or, it is something else entirely. I think hell is either nothingness (separation from God), or the literal spiritual torture. I don't think it's a lake of fire, I think that was people putting their own spin on God's inspiration of "worst thing imaginable." So, I believe a lot of things about God, none of which I know for sure, no one can. I don't want you all to think I look down on any other form of spirituality (or religion). Everyone has a right to choose. It is something God gave us, free-will (Some argue it doesn't exist since God knows what we are going to choose. But, since we, the decision makers, don't know, it's still free-will to us). What I sometimes feel is that I will not get to spend eternity with some of you, and that doesn't make me look down on them, it makes me feel melencholy. Tell me what you think. Good topic, by the way.

[evangel]

I thought maybe I can get my own few cents in before this thread gets too long... > what do all of you think is in store for us? That's a seriously HUGE Question... I'll just say that LDing has led me repeatedly to the realization that I am absolutely and utterly in need of and dependent on God (Jesus) for all things both temporal and eternal. > Some of us are pretty damned sure that these shells are no more than > just a shell, meaning we dont need them. My "shell" is a gift. Even though it's prone to sickness, vice, evil, and eventually death, I still view my physical body (and all others' as well) as a miracle of God's creation -as is knowledge, science, logic, and the ability to dream lucidly... > So what does the one god want from us. > (apply your creation myth or scientific hoohah here... My hoohah does entail seeing God as a "parental figure" (Father), yes... but much much more, too. Does this mean I understand Him? Nope. Not completely. He is infinite. I am finite. Learning who He is and what he wills for us, and on a more personal level, for me, is part of an ongoing, lifelong learning process It's like the developing a relationship with my dad -only this dad outdoes any human analogy or comparison you can try to apply to Him. This does not mean He hasn't provided revelation of himself to us through his word and his creation... > To make it in life better than they did and to surpass them. > Wouldent our creator wish the same for us? I think that was satan's intention, only he found pretty quick that he wasn't as smart as he thunk he was. > my church is the entire world, my prayers the appreciation of a sunrise, > and the smile I give to a stanger, my choir the wind through the trees > and the song of birds. Who or what are your "prayers" given to? ("prayer" implies two entities -a sender and a receiver). Beautiful poetic stuff. Kind of reminds me of the book of Psalms in the Old Testament... One of my most favorite books in the Bible. I love to recite Psalms while sleeping... at least when I'm lucid enough to remember them. > Soo this is just my crazy idea on whats going on. I hear that. I was wondering when someone might bring up this topic -especially since science has so little to offer in the way of dreams. There are numerous references to dreams in scripture, although I think mystics and others often are distracted by these types of references to dreams and other such "mystical experiences" in the Bible and other religious text. -------------------- "The LORD will command His lovingkindness in the daytime; And His song will be with me in the night, A prayer to the God of my life." -Psalm 42:8

[jill1978]

I't's amazing to hear all your beliefs. Dont anyone feel like their rambleing, because it's really insightful. I agree about the idea that too much blood has been shed over religion...with so many other things us humans have that pride issue and so many religions hold ideas we beleive in, so we assume it the one that we want and believe in, or the one we were guilt tripped into beleiveing in. I was brought up catholic, but what made me turn away from it was when I made my first communion and my parents were unable to receive communion because they were divorced and remarried...I thought my god dose'nt judge. I've come to just trust my instincts about what I beleive is right and wrong....I dont deney Jesus was an elightened soul, but he accourding to me was no more the son of god then we are all the sons and daughters of god...I think it's a good soul people want to identify with. I dont want to offend anyone's beliefs. All religions have some degree of interconnection, so no matter what religion you choose, your on the side of goodness...Even if you are a serial killer I think their is a place your condemed to, I think earth is hell enough....You'll just have to do it over and over again till you do it right....I've heard hell is repetition, and that's earth.

[Ginko]

As you all know if you are a believer in Christ is that Heaven is infamiable, yet people still persive it as this cloudy place, where all we do is sing and play the harp. But i think thats what the devil wants us to persive it as "A Boring PLace". But im sure its not. Which brings me to my next comment, y would God create a Galaxy so big we'll never end up exploring it by the time Christ is said to come bak. I think the awnser to this is that somwhere in the bible where it says, we'll always be learing and always exploring. Whos to say that after we die our knowlede of this spec of dust wont be increasing.

[Serinanth]

Originally posted by evangel * My \"shell\" is a gift. Even though it's prone to sickness, vice, evil, and eventually death, I still view my physical body (and all others' as well) as a miracle of God's creation -as is knowledge, science, logic, and the ability to dream lucidly...) I very much agree with you about the our physical bodies being a gift, I did not quite mean to downplay their importance, I just mean that when we die, we just leave the physical body and our spirit, which is eternal lives on. Originally posted by evangel+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(evangel)</div> * I think that was satan's intention, only he found pretty quick that he wasn't as smart as he thunk he was. * [/b] I dont quite get what you mean about satan. Why would a malfactor wish us to do good? My understanding may be a bit limited so please bear with me. And why wouldent God wish us to rise and be equals? <!--QuoteBegin-evangel * Who or what are your \"prayers\" given to? (\"prayer\" implies two entities -a sender and a receiver). Hmmm I duno if I pray then, I dont see god as an entity persay, God can manifest into a single entity prehaps to try and communicate with us, say the Jesus for example but as a whole god is Infinite. When I think of God I see all of creation. You, me, plants, animals, the earth, the sun, etc. So by living in this creation and actually taking the time to admire its incredible beauty is what I see as a prayer, stop and smell the roses so to speak, being aware of the unfathomable intricacy on a daily basis (being aware of and understanding are two different things I might add heeh). Oh and I do speak to the wind at times God hears me, knows that I love him and that is what is important. Shawndow I couldent agree with you more, there is so much out there so much for us to learn and experience more than what we can learn in a single lifetime. So either we end up back again to experience all that is new and expanded, or This life is just the beginning and we have a very long path ahead of us, but more importantly its not the final destination that is the point, its walking along that path the experience itself that is important.

[Ginko]

i love your quote serinath, Not all who wander are lost. It so deep and can have multiple meanings

[Serinanth]

A very wise man by the name Of J.R.R tolkien said that, I cannot take credit.

[A Lost Soul]

Anyone ever read the book Small Gods by Terry Pratchett? It has an interesting take on religion. Personally, I can't catagorize myself into any nameable religion. The closest thing I can think of would be pagan, but even that isn't completely accurate. I think that 'god' exists for everyone in very different ways and no one person has any right to tell another what their god is. Religion is a very personal thing. For me, 'god' has chosen to be two seperate beings that I can associate with: a god and a goddess. I guess you could say I worship everything. Death and life, black and white, strength and compassion. One cannot exist without the other. My god and goddess have names, but I'm not going to share them here. Like I said, it's a personal thing. I wish I could say that I respect and worship this shell I'm inhabiting. In truth, I hate this body and I'm looking forward to the day when I can be rid of it. I should view it as a gift because it is indeed a gift, but for some reason I can't bring myself to do so. Quite the opposite of your views, Serinanth and Evangel. My goddess has confronted me many times on this, but I can't bring myself to look at this shell as anything but a piece of clothing. I can't say that I believe in a heaven. Then again, I can't say that I don't. I'm really not sure. A couple of nights ago, I stepped into the dream world, into my grandparents' house. Both of them have passed away, yet being in that house with them there felt so natural. Like they never left. It took me a few moments before I realized that I wasn't in my waking reality. I said so aloud, and they looked at me funny. Most people in that world tend to do that when I tell them I'm dreaming. I hugged them both and thanked them for visiting me there, whatever there may be. I believe that they were really there. It was too real to be anything else. Does that mean that they're not in heaven? Who knows. Either way, I can take comfort knowing that they are continuing their path of existance and they are content. I've just accepted that it's something well beyond my human comprehension. As far as faith is concerned, I think that's why all our souls have hearts. Everyone's heart is different. Everyone walks a different path. Sometimes paths cross, sometimes they diverge. I find religion and the human existance fascinating.

[nerve]

John 3:16 - "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life." does anyone in this forum believe this?!

[Ginko]

I belive in John 3:16 although i know that some of the things religons pertray might not be true. OK WHAT IM ABOUT TO SAY PPL, some might take offense to BUT PLZ DONT GET MAD AT ME FOR IT. What are the odds of Jesus Christ being white Seriously, wouldn't it make more sense if he was of darker skin such as Middle Eastern or black. Lets face it, if you beilive in christanity then you know gods ppl are the Israelites. Now where is Israel located, in the Middle East. You know the war between the Isrealites and Palistienes thats been raging on for decades. Take in mind ppl that hundredes of years ago they didn't have air condtion, and no cars, you had to walk every where. Now imagaine that you are around the country side with you crew teaching Gods word in that kinda heat. Your obivously going to get a major tan unless you already of darker skin. I personally think that he was more middle eastern then anything. Any 1 have anything to say about this. It is perfectly ok to put down my statment.

[nerve]

Shawndow, I am definately not offended, that's an interesting observation and you're probably right! whoa....cool

[Second Attention]

I'll probably get hated for this, but regardless, here goes: First off, I have to say I see that this board(or at least it seems to me) is dominated by people whom follow the Christian faith. I don't find this bizarre, by any means, however a bit surprising, really. Now, knowing that, I would like to know how most Christians feel about their faith, whether their interpretation of the texts that comprise their religion is taken literally, or figuratively? For instance, one of my professors when I took philosophy was a priest that had his priesthood taken away for asking too many questions, and eventually deciding that to take the Bible literally was foolish, and that to take it figuratively, as though the morals behind the stories were more important than the actual stories, was a much more realistic view on things. He still attends church, he still considers himself a devout Christian, however he does NOT believe that the Bible, and other religious texts, should ever be taken literally. I completely agree with him. On to the next point. I don't believe in this wholeheartedly, but I believe there is something to it. In Castaneda's books, he is given a rule. This rule states that when we die their is a creature, of some unknown nature, but due to certain qualities(which I cannot recall off the top of my head) this entity is referred to as the Eagle. Now, the Eagle's purpose(if purpose it can be called) is basically: when people die, their awareness/consciousness/soul/ghost/whatever is devoured by the Eagle. So basically, the Eagle is there to claim us after our deaths. However, the Eagle has given us ALL the ability to avoid this end. And of course, to avoid this end you have to follow the procedures that Carlos follows in the books; however, I believe this was simply their way of avoiding this end. There are mirrors for this type of thing in many religions. Reincanation and karma in buddhism. To reach Nirvana, one must continually live this life over until they have discovered "enlightenment" and can reach eternal bliss. Similar, grant it, not the same, but similar. I'm not sure how exactly to equate this to Christianity, perhaps you could view Hell as one's "being devoured" and Heaven as one's "escape". Although, I'm sure there is more to it than that, and if I knew more about Christianity, I might possibly have a better way to equate it. Also, I was kind of wondering if anyone could explain the whole trinity thing to me, because I know Jesus is the son, God is the father, and but what is the Holy Ghost? Is that the infinity? The unknowable? Any ways, my whole point, which has been horribly lost amongst my meanderings, was that I believe most religions are basically the same at the core, just with emphasis on different ideas/symbolism to get their meaning out. If you take away all the crap that's been made up in the last few thousand years about any major religion, get down to the core of it(if it is even possible still at this point), then you will see that they are all the same. Every major religion has been corrupted by the hand of man after being transcribed a billion times over. Any one who says otherwise should seriously question their beliefs.

[Curios]

Originally posted by Second Attention I'll probably get hated for this, but regardless, here goes: First off, I have to say I see that this board(or at least it seems to me) is dominated by people whom follow the Christian faith. I don't find this bizarre, by any means, however a bit surprising, really. Now, knowing that, I would like to know how most Christians feel about their faith, whether their interpretation of the texts that comprise their religion is taken literally, or figuratively? For instance, one of my professors when I took philosophy was a priest that had his priesthood taken away for asking too many questions, and eventually deciding that to take the Bible literally was foolish, and that to take it figuratively, as though the morals behind the stories were more important than the actual stories, was a much more realistic view on things. He still attends church, he still considers himself a devout Christian, however he does NOT believe that the Bible, and other religious texts, should ever be taken literally. I completely agree with him. On to the next point. I don't believe in this wholeheartedly, but I believe there is something to it. In Castaneda's books, he is given a rule. This rule states that when we die their is a creature, of some unknown nature, but due to certain qualities(which I cannot recall off the top of my head) this entity is referred to as the Eagle. Now, the Eagle's purpose(if purpose it can be called) is basically: when people die, their awareness/consciousness/soul/ghost/whatever is devoured by the Eagle. So basically, the Eagle is there to claim us after our deaths. However, the Eagle has given us ALL the ability to avoid this end. And of course, to avoid this end you have to follow the procedures that Carlos follows in the books; however, I believe this was simply their way of avoiding this end. There are mirrors for this type of thing in many religions. Reincanation and karma in buddhism. To reach Nirvana, one must continually live this life over until they have discovered \"enlightenment\" and can reach eternal bliss. Similar, grant it, not the same, but similar. I'm not sure how exactly to equate this to Christianity, perhaps you could view Hell as one's \"being devoured\" and Heaven as one's \"escape\". Although, I'm sure there is more to it than that, and if I knew more about Christianity, I might possibly have a better way to equate it. Also, I was kind of wondering if anyone could explain the whole trinity thing to me, because I know Jesus is the son, God is the father, and but what is the Holy Ghost? Is that the infinity? The unknowable? Any ways, my whole point, which has been horribly lost amongst my meanderings, was that I believe most religions are basically the same at the core, just with emphasis on different ideas/symbolism to get their meaning out. If you take away all the crap that's been made up in the last few thousand years about any major religion, get down to the core of it(if it is even possible still at this point), then you will see that they are all the same. Every major religion has been corrupted by the hand of man after being transcribed a billion times over. Any one who says otherwise should seriously question their beliefs. I totally agree to everything you said here. Religion is man made and probably not the way god intended it to be. Ive read the bible and its full of stuff that is hard to understand. I pray as much as i can remember to and i believe in christ but i do not go to church nor read the bible much anymore. The trinity well can best be explained by your priest friend.

[evangel]

Serinanth Wrote: >I very much agree with you about the our physical bodies being a gift, I >did not quite mean to downplay their importance, I just mean that when >we die, we just leave the physical body and our spirit, which is eternal >lives on. I see. Coool. I guess the wording just made me think you meant something like the body is "throw-away" or valueless. >>I think that was satan's intention, only he found pretty quick that he >>wasn't as smart as he thunk he was. >I dont quite get what you mean about satan. Why would a malfactor wish >us to do good? My understanding may be a bit limited so please bear >with me. And why wouldent God wish us to rise and be equals? My understanding is that satan (a term which originally meant "the enemy" OR "accuser of mankind" -but is now usually equated with "Lucifer," the fallen angel who led 1/3 of the angels in rebellion against God...) sought to usurp God's throne in heaven (God with a capital G meaning Jehovah or The Most High as he is referred to in scripture) God is revealed in scripture to be omniscient, omnipresent, and uncreated -as opposed to humans who are finite in knowledge, being, and are created, who have the potential to become eternal in some sense. ...Sooo, my point in that is that one of satan's lies to mankind, according to scripture is that we should strive to attain equality with God simply because he knows that this means that we will also seek to usurp God's authority (foolishly) as he/they did, leading to our own prideful descent. I do believe that some (not all) will be given rewards, gifts, etc. in the future that we may think of as "god-like" (as Jesus indicated to his disciples in his resurrected body).The idea that we should attain equality with God in any sense is abhorred or at least inconceivable to orthodox Christians and Jews because of the personality of God which demands worship. >Hmmm I duno if I pray then, I dont see god as an entity persay, God >can manifest into a single entity prehaps to try and communicate with us, >say the Jesus for example but as a whole god is Infinite. Uh, well... I think I agree with you there. I was just using the word entity as a generric term for "being" or "person" although God also surpasses the definitions of these words. God is God. There is no other like or comparable to Him. > When I think of God I see all of creation. You, me, plants, animals, the > earth, the sun, etc. So by living in this creation and actually taking the > time to admire its incredible beauty is what I see as a prayer, stop and >smell the roses so to speak, being aware of the unfathomable intricacy That's cool that you're able to recognize that. Most of us take these things for granted too much of the time... I try to thank God each day for the "little things" like my health, the roof over my head, my friends, family, etc., but I also often take these things for granted and get caught up in the mundane and familiar repetition... ------------------- "The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom."

[Ginko]

Did any 1 read my post. What do you think. The way i see things is you only get 1 chance at this human thing on earth. Since these "Shells" will die in time y not enjoy them while you can. You'll only get to feel pain once. Only get to have sex in this life. Have some fun, but dont break the commaments in the process

[DreamCoil]

I don't think we need centers to represnt god (I mean like The Church and such) Why do we need someone to tell us what god wants? Someone to interprut the bible for us? If there is a god then I think he wanted us to worship him in our own way, not get told what to do. Probably wanted us to discover things for ourselves. Now the Church seems to be out of date and read to many things out of the bible, so much bad is caused by religion, and I think primarely it is caused by the bible. Why? well because most laws in the bible are based on law in Jeruselem at the time, like stoning to death and such. Did Jesus tell us to stone people to death? I don't think so. So what am I trying to say... well maybe that the church is useless and that God is something you need to find on your own, If I have offended anyone it is not my intention.

[nerve]

...

[DreamCoil]

Jesus exsisted, he died on the cross. Why everyone is argueing is wether or not he was the son of god and such, that we will never know. But for some people with faith they seem to already know, I envy them in a way... But I just can't seem to think like that, not in my nature. Also Shawndow what you said about Jesus being Mediteranian is probably right. Theres no way that a guy living there is gonna be so damn white and european like the pictures iv'e seen, maybe it's about time the church scraped those pics and got one of a dark skinned guy, because he was. Don't wanna go off track but the white skinned guy the church shows us could show their fear that the person they believe as their massiah could actually be one of the people they hated all these years...

[Serinanth]

Hey Shawndow Watch Dogma...

[Aneas]

There is a very good book called "What Buddha Said, What Jesus Said" Most of the quotes attributted to Jesus are almost identical to the teachings of Buddha. Remember that Buddha lived about 500 years before Jesus. It is speculated that Jesus traveled to India during the years that are missing from the new testament. Like Buddha, Jesus belived that we each possess the capability to tap into the divinity that resides within each of us. We are cocreators with our creator (like lucid dreaming). We are inherently good, but we are temporarily deceived by the illusion of the material plane. Because this is only an illusion we are ultimately able to work off our negative transgressions. In some beliefs, the final goal is to COMPLETELY dissolve our individuality and merge back with the original source. As we start at a very young age to define our individuality it is not an easy task to let go utterly of the ego.

[nerve]

Like Buddha, Jesus belived that we each possess the capability to tap into the divinity that resides within each of us. [/b] oh? verse please..