Thread: OOBE's proved wrong

Originally Posted by BillyBob_001

We all have to find our own ways to cope with death. Lets all just let one another believe whatever the hell we want.
Of course, that shouldn't stop you from telling other WHY you believe what you believe. Just remember that these belief systems are what keep us from commiting suicide on a daily basis. They're pretty much completely ingrained into the core of our mind.

I would be perfectly fine with innocent, happifying theories which did nothing more than keep people from defenestration. The problem arises when these theories are jeopardized by the tireless advance of scientific knowledge. You're certainly right about them being ingrained in the core of our minds. This sort of thing becomes a big problem when people begin to grasp at straws, trying to twist the world every which way in order to maintain their fairy tale happy endings. Granted, we are at a point right now where very little can conclusively be said about the mind, but this brand of stubborn, faith-based reasoning has done nothing but harm in the past. I, for one, will continue to endeavor to keep people from becoming too convinced of their happifying theories, no matter what they may be. So long as an element of doubt is maintained, all is well. But one can't help but talk, talk, talk when people run around claiming to know the unknowable - for sure.

Originally Posted by thegnome54

I would be perfectly fine with innocent, happifying theories which did nothing more than keep people from defenestration. The problem arises when these theories are jeopardized by the tireless advance of scientific knowledge. You're certainly right about them being ingrained in the core of our minds. This sort of thing becomes a big problem when people begin to grasp at straws, trying to twist the world every which way in order to maintain their fairy tale happy endings. Granted, we are at a point right now where very little can conclusively be said about the mind, but this brand of stubborn, faith-based reasoning has done nothing but harm in the past. I, for one, will continue to endeavor to keep people from becoming too convinced of their happifying theories, no matter what they may be. So long as an element of doubt is maintained, all is well. But one can't help but talk, talk, talk when people run around claiming to know the unknowable - for sure.

But are you really helping once you get into the area of flame wars?

Its perfectly fine to state your hypothesis on why you personally feel your view is the correct one and what you find to be faults of logic in their judgment of "the truth"
The problem is when it gets into name calling and telling the other person that he or she is a moron just because so far what they've witnessed in their reality hasn't yet shown them the truth that you've personally found (maybe it never will).


Your never going change someones opinion of whats true and whats not by laughing at them and telling them they're stupid just because they believe what they do.
You change opinions by politely stating every possible morsel of obvious logical truth and letting them go over it themselves and figure it out on their own.

Maybe they don't figure it out even after you tell them everything... You've planted a seed that may or may not blossom in the future when they hear this argument again.
People don't change they're views of reality very easily or quickly. Chances are I'm not going to read a post (no matter how flawlessly intelligent and obvious it makes it that I'm an idiot for believing what I do) and suddenly completely change my outlook on reality. It just doesn't happen.
(Just like I bet you were scoffing the whole time you were reading this )

Come on guys, LDs have been proven.

The brainwave machines showed Laberge's brain when in REM sleep and he carried out a select few eye movements that he and the scientists agreed on. That basically means it's proven. He'd have to have a conscious grip in his dreams to even remember to do that.

I've had LDs and I know without a doubt that they are real. They're FAR different from normal dreams, and far more intense. I'd say they're more intense than real life itself.

Originally Posted by BillyBob_001

Your never going change someones opinion of whats true and whats not by laughing at them and telling them they're stupid just because they believe what they do.
You change opinions by politely stating every possible morsel of obvious logical truth and letting them go over it themselves and figure it out on their own.

I completely agree, mindless ad hominem arguments are useless (though sometimes fun) in the long run. I'm just saying that I don't think we should stop discussing the issue at any point, or let people think they've found the ultimate answer without at least challenging them a bit.