Thread: OOBE's proved wrong

Originally Posted by Oneironaught

What??? Anyway, just because I don't see or become effected by something doesn't mean it's non-existent. It still effects those who are exposed to it.

I have no idea what you're trying to get at.

I don't understand how it doesn't mean it's non-existent. If You are aware it effects those who are exposed to it than of course that's the way it is. But if You aren't, i don't see how it can be existent.

What i initially was getting at is that we shouldn't believe so easily, or hold on to so often, to what science shows us as credible.
I wanted to show one of its limitations. And in doing so i stumbled upon a different view on the world. After this i tried to clarify and grasp the small difference in thinking, that splits up into these two almost opposite views.
But that's harder to show than i had hoped.

Congratulations :bravo:

I see the astounding members of DV have managed to muster another [SIZE=5]5 [SIZE=2]page topic into existence I knew it would happen again, but I didn't think this topic would actually go that far.


Now I am sure that many of you have noticed this with all arguements on this forum as I am sure it is everywhere that there are TWO SIDES to every arguement. For instance in this case there are those who believe in Out Of Body Experiences & Those Who Do Not.

I seriously doubt you will ever get the other side to see your view on things and as you can see 5 Pages Later you are still arguing about the same thing nobody has accepted the others side take on things and I doubt this post will make any difference.

But nobody is going to go "Oh that's a good point I think I will agree with you now."

So really I don't see the point in arguing this topic any further. I do believe this is called "Arguing For The Sake Of Arguing" or something to that effect.

Yours Truly,

Brandon Heat

i'll proved it right IF and only if i have OOBE and i heard that u can wander around in RL?? if that's true i'll wander to a new neighbour hood n remember all the detail! then when i wake up i'll visit it to see if it matches.

If yes> yeah souls and hell n heaven is all real n i'll do gd deed but other ppls wont believe nvm i alone know the ans will be enough xD

Originally Posted by Mocari

I don't understand how it doesn't mean it's non-existent. If You are aware it effects those who are exposed to it than of course that's the way it is. But if You aren't, i don't see how it can be existent.

What i initially was getting at is that we shouldn't believe so easily, or hold on to so often, to what science shows us as credible.
I wanted to show one of its limitations. And in doing so i stumbled upon a different view on the world. After this i tried to clarify and grasp the small difference in thinking, that splits up into these two almost opposite views.
But that's harder to show than i had hoped.

I understand that you're using a philosophical argument. But it only works in the realm of philosophical thinking. That concept holds no water when considering real life. Awareness has no bearing on ultimate reality.

Originally Posted by MrDeJaWu

i'll proved it right IF and only if i have OOBE and i heard that u can wander around in RL?? if that's true i'll wander to a new neighbour hood n remember all the detail! then when i wake up i'll visit it to see if it matches.

If yes> yeah souls and hell n heaven is all real n i'll do gd deed but other ppls wont believe nvm i alone know the ans will be enough xD

I sometimes wish people would use WORDS when they post.

Originally Posted by Oneironaught

I understand that you're using a philosophical argument. But it only works in the realm of philosophical thinking. That concept holds no water when considering real life. Awareness has no bearing on ultimate reality.


I sometimes wish people would use WORDS when they post.

If You see that as truth, i'm not arguing that it isn't. The same way science only works in the realm of scientific thinking, the same way God exists in the eyes of the Christian. Philosophical thinking is very much a part of my reality.

Originally Posted by Mocari

If You see that as truth, i'm not arguing that it isn't. The same way science only works in the realm of scientific thinking, the same way God exists in the eyes of the Christian. Philosophical thinking is very much a part of my reality.

It doesn't mean philosophy is always right.

Science is trustworthy because of the scientifical method. It exludes almost every possibility of a wrong thesis.
Even for that reason, psychology took years to become a science. Nowadays, it's limited to concepts, since psychological theses always involuntarily touch the concepts of perception, awareness, ethics, and all that's related to it. That is mostly social science: social science is the study of how society developped and how it functions to us. That's why I still think psychiatry is better (although I do not agree with a lot of it).

Originally Posted by Kromoh

It doesn't mean philosophy is always right.

Science is trustworthy because of the scientific method. It excludes almost every possibility of a wrong thesis.
Even for that reason, psychology took years to become a science. Nowadays, it's limited to concepts, since psychological theses always involuntarily touch the concepts of perception, awareness, ethics, and all that's related to it. That is mostly social science: social science is the study of how society developed and how it functions to us. That's why I still think psychiatry is better (although I do not agree with a lot of it).

This debate is currently one of the most important ones, if not the most influential, between philosophy and science.
We have shown two sides of this debate and i hope it won't go ignored and will inspire people to think about and question their existence; their beliefs, goals, actions, everything, as they feel fit.
There are multiple answers to our questions though only one may be right to any of us, and i think Kromoh and i can agree we may all pick a different answer based on our current situation.

So i hope we will all respect each others views on this in the knowledge we would believe as others do when in their position and that many more people will open up and show their colors concerning everything real or unreal, without feeling threatened by other views as in the end who determines whether You are really right or wrong is still You.

If anyone wishes to enrich our views i hope they will have the courage to speak up. The lack of responses hurt me, as i see people telling You how to live without knowing life. If there is something You feel insecure about but think You disagree with or want to ask or add, You can always IM me to keep it between us and i will respond when and if i can without stigma. I am still limited but will do my best to find the way to our ideal situation, as any of us.

Originally Posted by Brandon Heat

Now I am sure that many of you have noticed this with all arguements on this forum as I am sure it is everywhere that there areTWO SIDES to every arguement.

Well actually there are at least three sides to this discussion, as I don't believe in NDE's exactly, but I don't think Penn and Teller is a good source for proof.

Originally Posted by Xaqaria

...but I don't think Penn and Teller is a good source for proof.

True. I wouldn't say they could supply proof of anything except that jerks who go out of their way to ruin magic and to piss off the magic community can actually make a very good living doing magic shows and being annoying pr!cks. Go figure.