Delusions when sleeping

[nullbyte00]

This happens sometimes when I am sleeping on the bus. I lay down and close my eyes and just think about stuff. I never really fall asleep, but after a while I become delusional. For example, I once thought I was being kidnapped (I was awake, not dreaming). Are these just pre-dreams that for some reason happen while I am still awake (and have my eyes open)?

[devilkitty999]

Idk. I know if I keep my mind awake while I fall asleep, i have short minidreams which happen in a halfconcious state. It's impossible to be lucid without waking up in these for me.

[tommo]

Yeh me too, pretty sure it's just a day dream. But extra vivid because your almost asleep. This almost always happens to me in the morning, I will think about something but see it like a dream. I find it cool, though kidnapping may be scary.... I find it is easier to imagine stuff in this state because it is almost like you are controlling what you daydream because it is whatever you are thinking about.

[devilkitty999]

Ya, but for me I have no control over them even when I know its happening. And they are really, really retarded more so than dreams. When I try to take control and I wait for somthing else to happen, I realize that it's now a daydream.

[Kushna Mufeed]

I had something like that once. I was lying on my bed after a hard day at school and staring at my ceiling. All of a sudden I saw this sort of transparent vision, like I could see the dream but still see my room. I was at this picnic and was walking behind people sitting at a picnic table. I stop behind one guy and jabs with both elbows. It shot me awake because I actually felt him hitting me! I rarely get vivid daydreams like that. Another time, I think a few weeks later, after throwing around paper balls all day in class I was again lying on my bed. All of a sudden I feel and hear a paper ball hit me in the head. It was scary since I was alone.

[Thor]

This happens sometimes when I am sleeping on the bus. I lay down and close my eyes and just think about stuff. I never really fall asleep, but after a while I become delusional. For example, I once thought I was being kidnapped (I was awake, not dreaming). Are these just pre-dreams that for some reason happen while I am still awake (and have my eyes open)? Under certain circumstances it's possible to dream while awake. These are real dreams, not daydreams.

[Oneiro]

Under certain circumstances it's possible to dream while awake. These are real dreams, not daydreams. You need strong visualisation skills to do it, but I agree with you Thor. I did it myself once, finding myself in a lucid dream scenario whilke perfectly aware of the feeling of the position of my physical body. If I could have held on (it lasted just seconds) I feel that I could have stood up in the physical and moved around while having a lucid dream at the same time.. it was literally a feeling of "being in two places at once". Weird stuff. Of course, there is always the argument that I must have fallen asleep without realising it, and I have no counter to that. All I can say is what I experienced, and I aver that I was wide awake at the time..

[Shamrox]

Another time, I think a few weeks later, after throwing around paper balls all day in class I was again lying on my bed. All of a sudden I feel and hear a paper ball hit me in the head. It was scary since I was alone. Thats funny shit right der...

[mark]

yeah I totally get what you mean! I some times do that, they are kind of like thought dreams with no visual aspect for me and sometimes the can be fairly weird lol

[arby]

Well, it all depends on what you consider to be a dream and what's a daydream/visualization. Personally, I only consider if a full dream when my real body has completely slipped my conscious mind and I am fully in the dream world. Of course, I've gotten to this state in some really crazy situations. For example, my mind was on racing one day for whatever reason. I started to imagine what it would be like to be going around those turns. Now, I did this as I paced around my house (I can do laps around my house.. XD). Pretty soon, I was in a dream and racing around a track at high speeds. I eventually won and almost immediately returned to real life. I was like "Woah, I was just doing laps around my house at the same time as doing laps in my head." The question is... would you consider that a daydream or an all-out dream? I wanna know what others consider a dream or daydream. I mean I didn't even have my eyes closed. Wait, I'm gonna start a thread about it in general dream discussion.

[Thor]

You need strong visualisation skills to do it, but I agree with you Thor. I did it myself once, finding myself in a lucid dream scenario whilke perfectly aware of the feeling of the position of my physical body. If I could have held on (it lasted just seconds) I feel that I could have stood up in the physical and moved around while having a lucid dream at the same time.. it was literally a feeling of "being in two places at once". Weird stuff. Of course, there is always the argument that I must have fallen asleep without realising it, and I have no counter to that. All I can say is what I experienced, and I aver that I was wide awake at the time.. Well, this phenomenon has been carefully studied in sleep laboratories. You might want to read this article: Domhoff, G. W. (2005-2006). Dream research in the mass media: Where journalists go wrong on dreams. The Scientific Review of Mental Health Practice, 4(2), 74-78. From the article: "In fact, dreaming can occur during relaxed waking states when lying quietly in a darkened room, with wakefulness monitored by the EEG (Foulkes, 1985, for a summary; Foulkes & Fleisher, 1975; Foulkes & Scott, 1973)."

[Oneiro]

Great article Thor.. thanks for that. Another part I found interesting: "Fifth, longitudinal and cross-sectional studies in which young children ages 3-15 were awakened in the sleep laboratory suggest that dreaming is a gradual cognitive achievement based on the development of a variety of cognitive skills, especially the ability to create mental imagery. This is seen first in the unanticipated finding that median recall from REM awakenings of pre-school children was only 15%, but it is also shown by the static, undeveloped, and unemotional nature of the infrequent content that the pre-schoolers do report, and by the relatively simple nature--and continuing infrequency-- of the dreaming that occurs from ages 6 to 9. If we can trust laboratory studies, and I think we can, dreaming is not adult-like until ages 9-10 and not comparable to adult dreams in frequency, length, content, or emotions until ages 11-13" (Foulkes, 1982; Foulkes, 1999; Strauch, 2005). .. which kind of makes me wonder about all the purported cases of 5 year old LDers, anecdotal evidence of which is all over this website. How can one then take seriously their claims if indeed their dreams are "not comparable to adult dreams in frequency, length, content, or emotions until ages 11-13" . Makes me wonder. All the best to you.

[arby]

I think that children wouldn't be able to sleep very well in a lab. Plus, most people here ARE above 13 years old. Children that are really young wouldn't have the memories necessary to be able to make as many images or to create as many scenes as we could. They would come to dead ends more often. Perhaps that has something to do with it? Also, I know that my ability in dreaming has exponentially increased since I was around 7 and even before I found this site.

[tommo]

Well, I used to dream consistently about some things and I could recall dreams well, ever since I was at least 4 or 5. I still remember flying around my house and down my hallway in laps. I remember scary dreams, and just flat out weird ones. The earliest would be flying and that was probably when I was about 4. But what do they mean by infrequent content, simple and continuing infrequency. Does this mean dreams are infrequent in childhood? That they don't have recurring content? Kinda vague I think. But back to the topic, I think you do not need great visualization skills to day dream vividly/dream vividly while awake. It just needs a certain situation. When we play video games sometimes we 'zone-out' and just play it unconsciously. Does anyone else think that these 'dreams' feel exactly the same except with the added dreaming, and not just a blank mind? devilkitty - I also can't control them, it's like the instant you realise it's happening, you snap out of it.

[Luminous]

Great article Thor.. thanks for that. Another part I found interesting: "Fifth, longitudinal and cross-sectional studies in which young children ages 3-15 were awakened in the sleep laboratory suggest that dreaming is a gradual cognitive achievement based on the development of a variety of cognitive skills, especially the ability to create mental imagery. This is seen first in the unanticipated finding that median recall from REM awakenings of pre-school children was only 15%, but it is also shown by the static, undeveloped, and unemotional nature of the infrequent content that the pre-schoolers do report, and by the relatively simple nature--and continuing infrequency-- of the dreaming that occurs from ages 6 to 9. If we can trust laboratory studies, and I think we can, dreaming is not adult-like until ages 9-10 and not comparable to adult dreams in frequency, length, content, or emotions until ages 11-13" (Foulkes, 1982; Foulkes, 1999; Strauch, 2005). .. which kind of makes me wonder about all the purported cases of 5 year old LDers, anecdotal evidence of which is all over this website. How can one then take seriously their claims if indeed their dreams are "not comparable to adult dreams in frequency, length, content, or emotions until ages 11-13" . Makes me wonder. All the best to you. I have had lucid dreams pretty much all my life, I remember lucid dreams from when I was 3-4. My dreams were different from now; I remember them as short, incoherent, and often filled with feelings of fear, and sometimes anger. The feelings were "simple", and so was the dream. I think my dreams developed around the start of my teens, or a little earlier, now they are usually coherent and with plots, and they are usually pretty long. My emotions are more mixed and changing, at least in my non lucid dreams. Comparing my dreams at childhood and now would be like comparing 'Mary had a little lamb' to Beethoven.

[Thor]

But what do they mean by infrequent content, simple and continuing infrequency. Does this mean dreams are infrequent in childhood? That they don't have recurring content? Kinda vague I think. The way I read it is that "infrequent content" refers to the fact that the preschool kids had a median recall of only 15%, and "continuing infrequency" refers to the same thing in ages 6-9. And "simple" refers to the static, undeveloped, and unemotional nature of these dreams.

[Thor]

Comparing my dreams at childhood and now would be like comparing 'Mary had a little lamb' to Beethoven. Right. So your personal experiences pretty much confirm what the article says, and since the article doesn't say anything about lucidity there's no contradiction there.

[Luminous]

Right. So your personal experiences pretty much confirm what the article says, and since the article doesn't say anything about lucidity there's no contradiction there. Still, I had recurring themes when I was around 4-6 that I remember well. Cars would often be involved, and I dreamt that my parents left me in there, saying that they would be right back, but they never came back. I also had recurring dreams of my kindergarten burning, and me being trapped in there. They were lucid.

[Thor]

Still, I had recurring themes when I was around 4-6 that I remember well. Cars would often be involved, and I dreamt that my parents left me in there, saying that they would be right back, but they never came back. I also had recurring dreams of my kindergarten burning, and me being trapped in there. They were lucid. Yes, but the study doesn't say that the kids didn't have recurring dreams. It only says they had simple and infrequent dreams.

[tommo]

I was thinking the same as Line in the way that infrequent content meant always changing. Meh.... I'm kinda confused now

[Thor]

I was thinking the same as Line in the way that infrequent content meant always changing. Meh.... I'm kinda confused now Well, Merriam-Webster says: infrequent 1 : seldom happening or occurring : rare 2 : placed or occurring at wide intervals in space or time So I don't quite see how this could be taken to mean non-recurring.

[hankwheels]

That happens to me all the time. I'll be laying in bed, trying to fall asleep, and my mind wanders to the point where my thoughts are completely messed up. Sometimes I'll suddenly snap out of it and I'll be like "Why was I thinking about THAT?" It must be when my mind if half awake but half dreaming? lol

[[SomeGuy]]

Refer to thread "New Lucid Dream Type?" for more info. This sounds like something i have found recently, but reverse. You are delusional when you wake up, and this happens.

[tommo]

YEh, I was going to say that lol, or did i? I was meant to. Like when I wake up I think about stuff but it comes as imagery in my head like almost a full dream, like my thought's kinda start going themself.