Thread: foolproof Instant WILD anytime ...

I've said since my first post in this thread that the dream-like hallucinations are what make salvia trips and lucid dreaming similar, that wasn't a new admission.

In fact, nothing I'm saying is new at this point. To reiterate my previous posts:
If you're not experiencing ego death, you're not breaking through completely, because 'breaking through' is the informal term for the process of achieving ego death. What you describe in your post sounds to me like a typical non-breakthrough salvia trip, though I wasn't clear on whether you were saying you were able to control your trip reality like one can with the lucid dream reality.

Salvia isn't a shortcut to LDing because LDing isn't the same thing as tripping on salvia. The two experiences involve different brain-wave states, and different parts of your brain being activated/shut down.

Finally, it's entirely possible to break through without pure salvinorin, or even salvia extract. It's all a matter of bowl size and flame intensity. But it's definitely impossible if you're smoking like you would smoke marijuana.

Maybe its impossible for you to reach something similar to an LD with salvia, but I'm not the only one who can.

Not much is known about how salvia works other than that its a kappa opioid receptor agonist. Here is a few links discussing the possibility that salvia can induce a REM like state:

"Although the mechanism of action is not fully understood,
it is said to result in REM activity while still awake." Lisa Booze, PharmD, CSPI
http://www.umaryland.edu/bin/g/w/July2003tidbits.pdf

"Its leaves contain a hallucinogenic compound unlike any other. Its properties are more rightly classified as oneirogenic (dream-inducing), as it induces an involuntary state similar to REM sleep. " http://tryptamind.com/salvia_divinorum.html

"In summary, salvinorine may induce short REM episodes while awake and so literally kick the experimenter all of a sudden directly into a random oneiric scene" http://www.shaman-australis.com/~claude/salvia2.html

"Salvia divinorum thus seems to activate neuronal systems which are
triggered when one enters the REM phase of sleep."
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Salvia...ce/message/322

If you could show me some convincing studies concluding that salvinorin-a cannot induce anything remotely similar to REM then I'd give you some credit.
It may not be identical to REM, but there appears to be similarities.

Originally Posted by lucid4sho

Maybe its impossible for you to reach something similar to an LD with salvia, but I'm not the only one who can.

Not much is known about how salvia works other than that its a kappa opioid receptor agonist. Here is a few links discussing the possibility that salvia can induce a REM like state:

"Although the mechanism of action is not fully understood,
it is said to result in REM activity while still awake." Lisa Booze, PharmD, CSPI
http://www.umaryland.edu/bin/g/w/July2003tidbits.pdf

"Its leaves contain a hallucinogenic compound unlike any other. Its properties are more rightly classified as oneirogenic (dream-inducing), as it induces an involuntary state similar to REM sleep. " http://tryptamind.com/salvia_divinorum.html

"In summary, salvinorine may induce short REM episodes while awake and so literally kick the experimenter all of a sudden directly into a random oneiric scene" http://www.shaman-australis.com/~claude/salvia2.html

"Salvia divinorum thus seems to activate neuronal systems which are
triggered when one enters the REM phase of sleep."
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Salvia...ce/message/322

If you could show me some convincing studies concluding that salvinorin-a cannot induce anything remotely similar to REM then I'd give you some credit.
It may not be identical to REM, but there appears to be similarities.

If you could show me some convincing studies concluding that salvinorin-a can induce anything remotely similar to REM then I'd give you some credit (If we're going down this path, the burden of proof lies with the person making the claim, not the person debating it). But again, no one's debating that a salvia trip can have similarities to dreaming (specifically, hallucinations). That doesn't mean it causes lucid dreams, or is connected to them in any way.

Originally Posted by Happiness is a Warm Gun

If you could show me some convincing studies concluding that salvinorin-a can induce anything remotely similar to REM then I'd give you some credit (If we're going down this path, the burden of proof lies with the person making the claim, not the person debating it). But again, no one's debating that a salvia trip can have similarities to dreaming (specifically, hallucinations). That doesn't mean it causes lucid dreams, or is connected to them in any way.

Whether or not salvia can induce a state measurably comparable to REM I have not claimed to know, but you insist to know for a fact that it can't, but haven't provided any evidence.

From experience I can say that for me salvia can produce something perceivably near identical to an LD. You claim to know that this is impossible, but again have no evidence.

You are making unsupported claims, not me.

Originally Posted by Happiness is a Warm Gun

Finally, it's entirely possible to break through without pure salvinorin, or even salvia extract. It's all a matter of bowl size and flame intensity. But it's definitely impossible if you're smoking like you would smoke marijuana.

Here is the icing on the cake!!

This proves you have been mistaking non-breakthrough trips for actual breakthroughs. It is common knowledge that you can't breakthrough with regular salvia leaf no matter what torch/bowl you use. This is like claiming you can breakthrough with psychotria leaves! Every enthusiast knows you need a way higher dose that. Geez laweez I've been debating with a child it seems.

Aside from the countless user reports/literature substantiating this, I have witnessed so many people use salvia at different strengths that I'm familiar with the average dose required to reach different levels. No one has ever reached breakthrough with regular leaf!!!!

I have managed to breakthrough with a really good 20x from iamshaman.com , BUT its only possible if I am on a good dose of harmala (an maoi, stay away from this stuff). Maybe some people are sensitive enough to breakthrough with just a 20x, but its absurd to think its possible with regular leaf!! You just lost all credence with me and anyone following this thread. Have a good day!

That's an interesting way to say 'I can't find any studies connecting salvia to REM'
http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=345
http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=2869
http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=15393
In just 5 minutes of looking I've also found numerous forum posts reporting breaking through into ego death with only leaf. I'm not going to bother linking them all, since you can just google the appropriate terms yourself.

Hapiness - Seriously, what the hell are you talking about?

But again, no one's debating that a salvia trip can have similarities to dreaming (specifically, hallucinations)

Everyone is debating that!

And your understanding about ego-loss and breakthrough are warped as hell.
First you get ego-loss/death and then breakthrough, which is the dream part everyone is describing. Or you just skip the ego-death and go straight to breakthrough with high enough doses.

I'm not sure but I think you're saying that it cannot be the same because the physical actions in the brain are different, but that doesn't mean shit.
I mean, WILD'ing and DILD'ing are most certainly two different neurological processes but you achieve exactly the same result.
And who knows how the hell Salvinorin works? It could be identical to WILD'ing.

And about the real and imaginary thing. Of course hallucinations are real. They're a real experience; or else they wouldn't happen in the first place. Just because other people can't see it, feel it, hear it, smell it doesn't mean you didn't.

Originally Posted by Happiness is a Warm Gun

That's an interesting way to say 'I can't find any studies connecting salvia to REM'
http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=345
http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=2869
http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=15393
In just 5 minutes of looking I've also found numerous forum posts reporting breaking through into ego death with only leaf. I'm not going to bother linking them all, since you can just google the appropriate terms yourself.

Those are great examples of what one may experience before reaching breakthrough. I've shared and witnessed similar experiences to each of them.

This salvia report sounds like a breakthrough,
http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=58402
i know someone who experienced something very similar but they were mobile and seemingly more lucid.

Quote from above report:
"I felt myself trying to hang on to my world, to my universe of matter and space, but I was being pulled to into this grotesque monstrosity of an existence made up of only consciousnesses of pure energy and space.

After a short struggle the transfer was complete, suddenly and inexplicably. I had a body, surprisingly, but I could tell that it was not real and simply a projection of energy produced from a residual retention of the reality of my previous existence"

Before the moment this person breaks through their description was comparable to the first link you posted.

dmt breakthroughs:
http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=24260
http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=56682

It is hard to find good salvia breakthrough reports because its more difficult to reach with the typical extracts people are using. Plus dmt has been around longer.


Do you see the difference yet?

Is this what I've been missing since I've been gone. Man is this a long discussion thread.

Using salvia is a wonderful aid to DILDs as a general statement. I've noticed an obvious correlation between salvia use and DILDs. But the immediate pyscho-active effects of the drug should be long gone before expecting it to help with DILDs. There seems to be an after-effect that's helpful.

Yes, it's a brief WILD like experience, though using it in the middle of the night to try to put ones mind in a state to induce WILDs seems useless to me. In fact, it seems to actually reduce recall and lucidity.