Thread: foolproof Instant WILD anytime ...

Originally Posted by DarthDallas

not too sure why this is such a controversial topic, hallucinating and dreaming are 2 very different and not even related things. This is a fact. In "exploring the world of", Laberge clearly states that in the dreaming world, you are dreaming exclusively because you have no external stimuli, and your mind creates its own world to entetain itself while you sleep. (basically.) DRUGS ARE MOST DEFINITELY AN EXTERNAL STIMULI. While the experience is somewhat like dreaming, (sort of, i didnt think so) it's not the same thing or even in the same ballpark as dreaming.

Hallucination:
"A hallucination, in the broadest sense, is a perception in the absence of a stimulus" wikipedia
"Perception of visual, auditory, tactile, olfactory, or gustatory experiences without an external stimulus" american heritage dictionary

You got it backwards.

If drugs were considered an external stimuli then only dreams could be considered hallucinations.

Maybe hallucinogens should be called illusionogens.

Originally Posted by Sir Mark

Please note that if you look in a decent dictionary you will find that hallucinations are indeed a form of delusion. A dream, however, is not. I believe my point was that there are both similarities as well as differences between hallucinations and dreams. As a practicing mental health professional I do have some experience and knowledge and education, so while it might piss you off that there people who strongly disagree with your opinion, not all of them come from a position of ignorance.

By 'decent dictionary' I assume you mean DSM-IV? (No idea whether that states they are the same btw so don't flame me for a joke)
EDIT: Even psychology seems to have it right "A delusion is commonly defined as a fixed false belief and is used in everyday language to describe a belief that is either false, fanciful or derived from deception. In psychiatry, the definition is necessarily more precise and implies that the belief is pathological (the result of an illness or illness process). As a pathology it is distinct from a belief based on false or incomplete information or certain effects of perception which would more properly be termed an apperception or illusion."

I think you're getting confused highly between the two.
Someone that is hallucinating could believe that these experiences are real and therefore they would be 'delusional'. But it is not really ever the case when taking 'hallucinogens' with a few exceptions. So dreaming would actually be more like a delusion than a hallucination.
Also as lucid4sho states, external stimuli does not mean a foreign substance. Stimuli is tactile sensations or senses.

Without any hate or pointless criticism whatsoever I think you need to check the dictionary a bit more yourself and maybe do a bit more training because you seem to have a very twisted view of this subject and if you are in fact a trained 'mental health professional' or whatever you could actually harm someone using misinformation. Don't rely on your brain for dictionary definitions, our memory is extremely fallible.

Originally Posted by lucid4sho

Hallucination:
"A hallucination, in the broadest sense, is a perception in the absence of a stimulus" wikipedia
"Perception of visual, auditory, tactile, olfactory, or gustatory experiences without an external stimulus" american heritage dictionary

You got it backwards.

If drugs were considered an external stimuli then only dreams could be considered hallucinations.

Maybe hallucinogens should be called illusionogens.

I was going to say that.
Barely any 'hallucinogenic' drugs can actually be called hallucinogens because you are actually just perceiving the world differently. But as I understand it there are very few, such as DMT that completely shut off the outside world, or, stimuli. I think that is why most mind explorers choose now to call them entheogens. Not sure what that means.

Originally Posted by lucid4sho

Just curious, do you have a degree or are you a self proclaimed therapist?

I'm guessing self-proclaimed or that he is under the delusion he actually has a degree (Again a JOKE)