Thread: What if we lose the ability?

Well, as nearly impossible as it is, I cant say it will never happen because who knows.. but to me it seems like it would be next to impossible, It would be such a "backwards evolution" that not being able to lucid dream would be the least of our worries, as a matter of fact that we probably wouldn't even be able to worry .

Lucid dreams are no different then regular dreaming, or imagination, or use of our senses.. the reason that we become lucid is because we become self aware or conscious, the brain is awake during "sleep", its the body that sleeps.. and becoming aware is pretty natural, we had become aware in "real life" at some point right?

I dont wanna turn this into an essay, but some believe intelligence is essentially prediction.

Becoming lucid in a dream is no different, you pretty much expect (or predict) your hands to look normal, your finger to not go through your palm, this is true of all reality checks obviously. When something goes wrong, you suddenly focus on it. In real life if I took away 1 or 2 steps from your staircase in your house, you would know. Not because you count them, because you simply expect there to be another stair once you get to the top. Becoming lucid is the same thing, you basically predict something to happen, it doesn't, and you just know. From there its almost like you give life to your dream body, and have control.. the same kind you do in real life. The difference is there are no physical laws. Its as if you become conscious or aware in a different frame of mind.

Maybe deep down, one day we will forget how to "become aware".. but I feel that it is a natural skill, and one that will only improve as we continue to progress. Being aware is essentially life, and I cant see anything that would affect that while asleep, seeing how the brain is active.

Makes me wonder, I wonder what Cave men dreamt about.

Originally Posted by Jdeadevil

Makes me wonder, I wonder what Cave men dreamt about.

Um...caves, hunting, animals, women. Cave men weren't exactly devoid of stimulus.

Originally Posted by Siиdяed

Um...caves, hunting, animals, women. Cave men weren't exactly devoid of stimulus.

What's really crazy is to wonder if cave men ever dreamed about the same technologically advanced civilizations and architecture that a lot of us on here dream about!

Fighting, hunting, women... I bet the actors change, but the story was probably very similar to what modern man dreams of.

We ought to selectively breed naturals so that the human population lucid dreams every night! Of course my dad is a natural and I can barely LD. *sigh* It would be cool to know the ability to dream and LD is genetic or not.

Originally Posted by Shift

We ought to selectively breed naturals so that the human population lucid dreams every night! Of course my dad is a natural and I can barely LD. *sigh* It would be cool to know the ability to dream and LD is genetic or not.

Well, I'm still learning too, but from what I hear the more one practices LDing the more proficient one becomes. People that have been doing it for a long time tend to have them on a weekly basis!

Originally Posted by Iliad Keys

Well, I'm still learning too, but from what I hear the more one practices LDing the more proficient one becomes. People that have been doing it for a long time tend to have them on a weekly basis!

I've been trying for two years, while some people can have them overnight. So, I think it depends on the person.
Hence my question of whether or not it is genetic
My dad said he learned to LD because of his nightmares as a child. When I was young and had nightmares, I would suffer through them and then kick my wall until one of my parents came to get me bet he wishes I'd learned to LD! hahaha

Originally Posted by Shift

*sigh* It would be cool to know the ability to dream and LD is genetic or not.

I think it is largely genetic. The main argument is as to whether upbringing can influence it in any way, this way we could just teach rather than breed people! . After all, knowing about lucid dreaming tends to increase your chances of having them anyway. I still wonder whether living a "free" existance would cause your mind to be more "free" in dreams or maybe even living a limited existance would cause your desire for freedom to show itself at night. This is completely relevant to society these days. I wonder whether it's Americans or Chinese who LD more?

Originally Posted by Idolfan

I think it is largely genetic. The main argument is as to whether upbringing can influence it in any way, this way we could just teach rather than breed people! . After all, knowing about lucid dreaming tends to increase your chances of having them anyway. I still wonder whether living a "free" existance would cause your mind to be more "free" in dreams or maybe even living a limited existance would cause your desire for freedom to show itself at night. This is completely relevant to society these days. I wonder whether it's Americans or Chinese who LD more?

It would be interesting to do a survey of the entire globe, and making the connections between dominant religion (if any), economic status, type of government... I guess there are a lot of people from different countries on here, but they are predominantly English-speaking and obviously well enough off that they can use the internet
Since I love animals, an even more exciting question to me is, do animals have lucid dreams?! Maybe not jellyfish, but what about orangutan and bonobos and chimpanzees? Now that would be cool to find out!

Originally Posted by Idolfan

I think it is largely genetic. The main argument is as to whether upbringing can influence it in any way, this way we could just teach rather than breed people!

I tend to take the side of "nurture" rather than "nature." People may be more inclined or have more of an aptitude for certain subjects, but that potential alone is not going to make them great at something. Someone who is naturally talented with math isn't going to suddenly start spouting off the quadratic equation without some instruction.

Lucid dreaming is "taught," either by focused conscious effort or through personal experience, in the same way learning that a stove-top is hot (you can either hear about it from someone, or burn yourself).

My theory on dreams has to deal with importance. If something is important to you, you're more likely to remember it or work at/towards it, etc. Most people in today's society don't place much importance on dreams, so they tend to not remember them except under either extraordinary or random circumstances. A child usually finds them fascinating. A child also has few other responsibilities in their life to keep them from making that a priority. A child is also constantly experiencing new things, so the dream world remains an exciting and curious place.

Learning to re-build one's dream recall requires re-discovering one's excitement and curiosity and the willingness to make it a priority. Even someone with little propensity/potential to be a lucid dreamer can achieve it with some hard work.

As for losing the ability to dream and/or lucid dream, it will only go away once it loses its importance or the brain/mind is altered in such a way that one's ability to dream is taken away.

Originally Posted by Shift

Fighting, hunting, women... I bet the actors change, but the story was probably very similar to what modern man dreams of.

"I keep having the same dream. I'm being chased by a saber-toothed tiger. I try to throw a spear at it, but the spear breaks in half when I pick it up..."


Anyway, not to derail the thread, but this topic begs a bigger question which has been on my mind for a while.

Is mankind as a species done evolving?
Has modern society made the process of natural selection obsolete?

Think about it. There are few ailments which modern medicine cannot cure - in time there may be none. Online dating allows even physically disfigured people to find mates. There are essentially no environmental pressures to serve as catalysts for evolution.

Some have pointed to the rising average height seen in many cultures in the past couple hundred years as evidence that we are evolving faster than ever. But this apparent surge in average height and overall size has leveled off - it appears to have been caused by environmental factors such as improved nutrition rather than genetic or evolutionary factors. It was not nature, but rather nurture.

Technology advances faster and faster. But is the human race destined for genetic stagnation? I guess we'll have to wait and see.

Originally Posted by DuB

Anyway, not to derail the thread, but this topic begs a bigger question which has been on my mind for a while.

Is mankind as a species done evolving?
Has modern society made the process of natural selection obsolete?

That depends on how you view evolution. I don't believe in evolution between species, but only within certain types. ie. breeding short haired dogs in a cold climate will eventually produce long haired dogs. This doesn't mean that they will ever turn into ostriches. And honestly, there are so many holes in the evolutionist theory that I tend to doubt the whole thing.

Originally Posted by Iliad Keys

And honestly, there are so many holes in the evolutionist theory that I tend to doubt the whole thing.

That is something that we can agree on.

However, if you would like to suppose for a minute that evolution theory is correct and perhaps share some of your views, I made a separate thread in Extended Discussion on this topic:
http://www.dreamviews.com/community/...d.php?p=780892

Originally Posted by DuB

"I keep having the same dream. I'm being chased by a saber-toothed tiger. I try to throw a spear at it, but the spear breaks in half when I pick it up..."

as much as I despise those commercials...

I mean, the possibility that we might create technology so we require less sleep and are thus more efficient is always there, but if that did happen, I'd probably just not use it because lucid dreaming is so much fun.

Originally Posted by Shady

In real life if I took away 1 or 2 steps from your staircase in your house, you would know. Not because you count them, because you simply expect there to be another stair once you get to the top. Becoming lucid is the same thing, you basically predict something to happen, it doesn't, and you just know.

Excellent example Shady! In fact if you took off the top few stairs at my house I'd put my foot up, step into empty space, and fall flat on my face! If only dreams were that obvious!

Originally Posted by Iliad Keys

Excellent example Shady! In fact if you took off the top few stairs at my house I'd put my foot up, step into empty space, and fall flat on my face! If only dreams were that obvious!

I should hope not! Falling on my face hurts!

That is in interesting, but I guess the staircase thing is true. It's just so easy to distinguish lucidity from normal dreaming. In some ways I suppose you can control a dream when subconscious too by expecting something to happen. Unfortionately lucidity can trigger the climax of a nightmare in some and also wakes you up, so higher awareness definetly has some other effect on the dream itself.

Maybe if we were being controlled we would be forced to be less aware (China) and in a free world (USA) awareness would increase. This may have the same (or opposite? subconscious desires e.t.c) effect on our dreams.

I take back what I said about evolution though because natural selection could have no power over it. In fact I don't beleive natural selection exists anymore in humans (or is doing anything productive at least). Natural selection doesn't have the power to change a lot of things though, which confuses me. I don't see any other way "evolution" could occur but I do beleive it happens somehow. As far as dreaming is concerned though you're right, it's way more down to society and nurture factors.