Thread: What if we lose the ability?

As far as I can see, animals that dream are designed to forget them as a key survivial mechanism. This clearly comes from the days when we were too stupid to distinguish them from reality. I have confidence that plenty of mammals may be able to tell them apart too, but still, advanced as we are, it seems a miracle we can remember dreams at all if this is the case. LDing is an amazing thing, but unfortionately the majority of people don't see it this way.

Possibly over time, what if people were to completely lose the ability to LD? It's unlikely, but still possible. Seeing as few people care about it it's not hard to imagine the technique may be lost. As our minds advance (or not, it's probably going the other way), the ability to remember dreams or even be conscious in them could just fade away.

Scary thought?

If you are talking about the theory of evolution, it would supposedly take so many hundreds of generations for something like dreaming to be evolved past that it hardly matters to any of us. But it is an interesting concept. Though if you study the science of dreaming it is somewhat necessary and there is no real reason we would lose it.

If we will eventually lose dreaming, I don't think it will be due to evolution. I think it's more likely we'll lose dreaming because of someday our body will be so altered by the use of those artificial drugs (pills, etc.) we keep consuming more and more for any insignifcant reason. Maybe someday we'll take a drug that allows us to just rest for 4 hours a day, hence losing dreams... damn, I hope not!

Well, as nearly impossible as it is, I cant say it will never happen because who knows.. but to me it seems like it would be next to impossible, It would be such a "backwards evolution" that not being able to lucid dream would be the least of our worries, as a matter of fact that we probably wouldn't even be able to worry .

Lucid dreams are no different then regular dreaming, or imagination, or use of our senses.. the reason that we become lucid is because we become self aware or conscious, the brain is awake during "sleep", its the body that sleeps.. and becoming aware is pretty natural, we had become aware in "real life" at some point right?

I dont wanna turn this into an essay, but some believe intelligence is essentially prediction.

Becoming lucid in a dream is no different, you pretty much expect (or predict) your hands to look normal, your finger to not go through your palm, this is true of all reality checks obviously. When something goes wrong, you suddenly focus on it. In real life if I took away 1 or 2 steps from your staircase in your house, you would know. Not because you count them, because you simply expect there to be another stair once you get to the top. Becoming lucid is the same thing, you basically predict something to happen, it doesn't, and you just know. From there its almost like you give life to your dream body, and have control.. the same kind you do in real life. The difference is there are no physical laws. Its as if you become conscious or aware in a different frame of mind.

Maybe deep down, one day we will forget how to "become aware".. but I feel that it is a natural skill, and one that will only improve as we continue to progress. Being aware is essentially life, and I cant see anything that would affect that while asleep, seeing how the brain is active.

Makes me wonder, I wonder what Cave men dreamt about.

Originally Posted by Jdeadevil

Makes me wonder, I wonder what Cave men dreamt about.

Um...caves, hunting, animals, women. Cave men weren't exactly devoid of stimulus.

Originally Posted by Shady

In real life if I took away 1 or 2 steps from your staircase in your house, you would know. Not because you count them, because you simply expect there to be another stair once you get to the top. Becoming lucid is the same thing, you basically predict something to happen, it doesn't, and you just know.

Excellent example Shady! In fact if you took off the top few stairs at my house I'd put my foot up, step into empty space, and fall flat on my face! If only dreams were that obvious!

Originally Posted by Iliad Keys

Excellent example Shady! In fact if you took off the top few stairs at my house I'd put my foot up, step into empty space, and fall flat on my face! If only dreams were that obvious!

I should hope not! Falling on my face hurts!

I sure wont be around when and if that happens

I doubt we'll lose the ability. Even if everyone else in the world somehow forgot about LDing, I wouldn't because I already (luckily) know the techniques. Although that woud be disappointing because I wouldn't be able to learn more.

I don't see how this could happen because every normal person can dream, and every normal person can lucid dream. If normal people reproduce, they are going to have kids that dream or lucid dream. It's like running. There could a potentially great runner that sits on his ass all day and gets fat, but chances are he'll have kids that make potentially great runners as well, and if they work at it they will be good runners. Of course, as people get lazier and naturally slow runners don't have any problem surviving in today's world people could get slower, but even that would take hundreds of years. And that wouldn't logically happen with dreaming since just about everyone dreams. And if everyone dreams, everyone that can understand what a dream is can become lucid.

Also, I believe people were lucid dreaming thousands of years ago. I read it on DV somewhere. It hasn't been mainstream... at all... but now people are doing it. Even if it gets "lost," it will be "found" again later.

Yeah, I think if we lose the capability to dream it will be because the government decides it's a threat to them.

Originally Posted by Idolfan

As far as I can see, animals that dream are designed to forget them as a key survivial mechanism. This clearly comes from the days when we were too stupid to distinguish them from reality. I have confidence that plenty of mammals may be able to tell them apart too, but still, advanced as we are, it seems a miracle we can remember dreams at all if this is the case. LDing is an amazing thing, but unfortionately the majority of people don't see it this way.

Possibly over time, what if people were to completely lose the ability to LD? It's unlikely, but still possible. Seeing as few people care about it it's not hard to imagine the technique may be lost. As our minds advance (or not, it's probably going the other way), the ability to remember dreams or even be conscious in them could just fade away.

Scary thought?

When that happens I hope I'm not a human. I want to be a CAT! But IMO, it will happen but will be replaced by something even better than LDing. LDing will be considered primitive and like masturbation...

IMJ

Originally Posted by Idolfan

As far as I can see, animals that dream are designed to forget them as a key survivial mechanism.

That's unfounded blahblah. It is not even known if animals dream at all.

Originally Posted by Idolfan

This clearly comes from the days when we were too stupid to distinguish them from reality.

Is that so? And what makes you think dreams are not real? What makes you think that this moment in which you are reading this response is more real? There is no indication.

Originally Posted by Idolfan

I have confidence that plenty of mammals may be able to tell them apart too, but still, advanced as we are, it seems a miracle we can remember dreams at all if this is the case. LDing is an amazing thing, but unfortionately the majority of people don't see it this way.

That's because they were indoctrinated that dreams are unreal farts of the subconscious and that this commonly shared environment that is defined by science is more real. The same indoctrination that seems to apply to you as well. We may have to deal with this reality, but it's not the only one we exist in and I'm not doing esoterics here. The priests of old times have been replaced by modern scientists. What do they have in common? They can only make up theories based on axiomatic belief systems but they simply cannot explain anything. It just happens that society accepts them more than priests today. That wasn't always the case and it doesn't make much of a difference.

Originally Posted by Idolfan

Possibly over time, what if people were to completely lose the ability to LD? It's unlikely, but still possible. Seeing as few people care about it it's not hard to imagine the technique may be lost. As our minds advance (or not, it's probably going the other way), the ability to remember dreams or even be conscious in them could just fade away.

Scary thought?

What if we all get blind or start laying eggs or get born with additional nipples in our armpits?

"REM sleep decreases as you get older" says science. REM sleep is highly correlated with dreaming.

Originally Posted by psychology student

"REM sleep decreases as you get older" says science. REM sleep is highly correlated with dreaming.

No, it isn't. That's what was believed in the not so distant past. Usually people can recall dreams from lighter sleep states more easily though. That may have caused that assumption. A lot of factors take influence on memory though.

Yes, REM sleep is highly correlated with dreaming. That is not to say that REM causes dreaming, or that dreaming cannot occur without REM.

I am aware of the recent developments in research that say that dreaming may be caused by frontal brain areas. Also, that it may be closely related to Dopamine levels as opposed to Pons activity and REM sleep. Notwithstanding, this does not negate my initial statement.

Originally Posted by psychology student

Yes, REM sleep is highly correlated with dreaming. That is not to say that REM causes dreaming, or that dreaming cannot occur without REM.

I am aware of the recent developments in research that say that dreaming may be caused by frontal brain areas. Also, that it may be closely related to Dopamine levels as opposed to Pons activity and REM sleep. Notwithstanding, this does not negate my initial statement.

Well, sleep in general is highly correlated with dreaming and older people tend to sleep less. So what? Why exactly did you mention the REM phase in the context of this thread? And why exactly do you repeat the other information given above? You feel like you have to prove anything?

Originally Posted by Idolfan

As far as I can see, animals that dream are designed to forget them as a key survivial mechanism. This clearly comes from the days when we were too stupid to distinguish them from reality. I have confidence that plenty of mammals may be able to tell them apart too, but still, advanced as we are, it seems a miracle we can remember dreams at all if this is the case. LDing is an amazing thing, but unfortionately the majority of people don't see it this way.

Possibly over time, what if people were to completely lose the ability to LD? It's unlikely, but still possible. Seeing as few people care about it it's not hard to imagine the technique may be lost. As our minds advance (or not, it's probably going the other way), the ability to remember dreams or even be conscious in them could just fade away.

Scary thought?

Interesting, but how I look at it as I don't think animals LD. I mean, we got it for a reason. I doubt many people before we discovered did it. More people are discovering LDing as in forever. I don't think its going away.