Thread: Religion and Myth

I think that was me.. I did that because I somehow knew somebody had fake voted for it.. there is nothing wrong with the islam though..also just not my religion.. they kinda mistread woman

Originally posted by medicinewoman
i was raised in a Christain family, but have recently begun to reevaluate my beliefs. *i'm attempting to fashion my beliefs according to what i actually believe and not what i've been told to think. *from what i can tell the world's religions all contain truth but, perhaps, not the whole truth. *i guess i'm doing some searching. *it might be that i'll eventually find my way back to the christain church.

Congrats on starting your journey! I have been on that same identical path for 15 years now!
Question EVERYTHING. Take NOTHING for granted. It is amazing how well the major religeons compliment each other.
When, and if you do return to the christian church, I think you will find that you are more Christ-like than many of the older established members that did not undertake 'the journey'

Originally posted by Lucius
Ithere is nothing wrong with the islam though..also just not my religion.. they kinda mistread woman

i agree that Islam in rather oppressive to women. However, the same could be said for some forms of Christianity. There's a Bible passage that, in so many words, compares woman's relationship to man : slave to master. I wish I knew the book and chapter (clearly i need to return to Bible class). there are extremists in every religion.

glad everyone is still sharing so openly.
I began at a catholic school age 3 up through 2nd grade, whan a nun made me say a prayer my baptist parents didn't believe in. i was torn from that bubble an placed into muskogee public school, 1/3 white, `/1 black, 1/3 native american, omg. one of my friends got his knickles cut off cause his brother was badmouthing, crazy times, but i learned a lot.
then we went to a myriad of churches, i was baptised baptist, went mostly to community church, and finally, now taht I 'm semi on my own, i occaisionally go with my girl to the methodist church, and to a sanga for vissapana meditation. Being primarily Taoist though, i do my own thing and learn from as many religions as possible.

I like Islam, but up with women's rights. The Bhagavagita (spelling?) was full of wisdom, but also some desires, power over women being the one that throughs me off. but i think the bible has its moments as well. they did use it in rome to justify fucking small boys in public bath houses, so whatever. we all sin, we're all scared.

good can be used for evil here, that is why we are the fallen.

someone also said something about the 'narrow gate,' and i wanted to comment. that's my favorite thing that jesus talks about, this is my interpretation.

the 'narrow gate' is a metaphor for desire. those with desire cluttering their perceptions will NEVER see the gate that Jesus found (as many before him did) and came back through. It has something to do with death of the body, it has everything to do with the death of desire.

Jesus maintained a state of neutral thought where he judged no one, he held no desire in his heart against anyone or anything, he knew that it was ALL GOD.

Therefor, if you hate anything, you hate a part of God, if you love one thing more, then you are worshiping a PART of God (idolitry), not the true Alpha Omega. Jesus loved God because he loved everything EQUALLY.

It takes an empty heart to fill with the eternal heavens, it takes clear vision to behold the unpercievable God, it takes a pure soul to enter into the narrow gates of heaven.

those are my thoughts on transcendence.

HEY

who's the other Taoist???

I've never met another in my life, please let me know (pm or post).
I want to know your perception (or anybody else familiar with the Tao and the Te) of the way, if your think it relates to Druidism, or a type of vagabond monk, if you will? It has given me the clairity to deciefer my own religion and the others that have now all become integral parts of my life.

just curious, the Tao changed me forever.

Originally posted by Blulanou42


the 'narrow gate' is a metaphor for desire. those with desire cluttering their perceptions will NEVER see the gate that Jesus found (as many before him did) and came back through. It has something to do with death of the body, it has everything to do with the death of desire.

Jesus maintained a state of neutral thought where he judged no one, he held no desire in his heart against anyone or anything, he knew that it was ALL GOD.

It takes an empty heart to fill with the eternal heavens, it takes clear vision to behold the unpercievable God, it takes a pure soul to enter into the narrow gates of heaven.

There is nothing written in that first passage (Matthew 7) that indicates that the gate can be interpretted as "desire"...

-One thing that always irks me is the way people take scripture and apply their own meaning to it -without any regard to rules of textual interpretation (hermeneutics) -the chief of which is CONTEXT (comparing scripture with scripture to determine meaning, rather than simply applying an "interpretation" that sounds good).

Secondly, I agree that Jesus did not judge anything (at the time he was here in the flesh), but that he CONDEMNED sin and all who urged or taught others to sin. Thus, he was most definitely not neutral when it comes to sin. If he was, his sacrifice was moot. Also -Revelation speaks of Jesus coming a second time as a JUDGE of mankind and with WRATH, rather than a meek and lowly lamb who came to die as a sacrifice for sin.

Thirdly, I'm curious as to what you would characterize as a "pure soul" or what does it take to be one of these? Are you a pure soul?

Originally posted by evangel+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(evangel)</div>

<!--QuoteBegin-Blulanou42

the 'narrow gate' is a metaphor for desire. those with desire cluttering their perceptions will NEVER see the gate that Jesus found (as many before him did) and came back through. It has something to do with death of the body, it has everything to do with the death of desire.

Jesus maintained a state of neutral thought where he judged no one, he held no desire in his heart against anyone or anything, he knew that it was ALL GOD.

It takes an empty heart to fill with the eternal heavens, it takes clear vision to behold the unpercievable God, it takes a pure soul to enter into the narrow gates of heaven.

There is nothing written in that first passage (Matthew 7) that indicates that the gate can be interpretted as \"desire\"...


Thirdly, I'm curious as to what you would characterize as a \"pure soul\" or what does it take to be one of these? Are you a pure soul?[/b]

thats mean

Oh yeh

heres the bibles stand point on gays and les

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0273/0273_01.asp

Actually I am Muslim, but never replied. Sorry.

I was born a Muslim, thank God and will die one. My parents are Muslim and so were the generations before me.

This doesn't mean I haven't question or searched my religion. There is more to Islam to meets the eye, and so far it is (in my eyes) the most perfect religion. It is more than a religion, but a way of life, part of every little question and answer in my life.

To answer some previous discussion, Islam is not repressive of women. In fact, quite the opposite. It is the backwards cultures that influence this repressiveness. Islam gave women rights when it first orginated that were not part of the culture it grew in. It allowed a women to own property, right to inheritance, choose whoever she married and many others.
For more information:
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/humanrelations...s/womeninislam/

If you guys have any questions about Islam, let me know. I would like to clear up any misunderstandings you might have, since it has gotten a lot of bad press recently. Remember just like other religions certain people believe certains in aspects differently.

So...has anyone's religious beliefs ever been an influence in dreams? I had an apocolyptic dream one time that was a bit unusual. It was reported by religious leaders of the world as well as scientist that the end would come when three stars from seperate constellations would merge together in a great conjunction of sorts. I saw these three stars slowly heading for each other in the skies at night.(This dream appeared to last over a period of time.) People were freaking out over this. The stars picked up speed as they got closer to one another and the closer they got the more red they became. They were in a perfectly triangular formation that became smaller and smaller as the great conjunction was about to happen. I believe the three stars represented the Holy Trinity(Father, Son, Holy Spirit) and the triangular formation of the stars represented the Church and its trinitarian belief and the red colour of the stars represented the Blood of Christ and the convergance of the three stars represented man meeting God face to face. Pretty cool dream huh?

i believe in science. i believe in darwin. i believe in the sun. but most importantly, i believe in myself. -- i also believe that you are entitled to your beliefs, but i don't believe that your beliefs should be forced upon others, nor should your beliefs hurt others. but thats just what i believe, and i believe that my beliefs are reasonably believable. -- i label myself atheist because im against organized religion. i think people fall into it just because everything is already explained for them and they're just "sheep" in a sence. i hate following. i don't hate to much stuff, but i hate following. science gives you the opportunity to find your way. there are no enlightened individuals, if you work hard you can understand how the world came to be and how we evolved to what we are now. nothing is given to you, you make your own way in life... never follow.

-jake

I also believe in science (but not Darwin) because it is useful for practical living on a day to day basis. It can't address truth in any absolute sense though since it is always subject to change as we discover new information...

I've never met a true atheist (one who truly believed that there is no God and that there is evidence that proves this). I also disagree with most organized religion since it is severely flawed by human inconsistencies and stupidity, but that does not change my knowledge or faith in Christ.

Originally posted by phantasy
I would like to clear up any misunderstandings you might have, since it has gotten a lot of bad press recently. Remember just like other religions certain people believe certains in aspects differently.

I realize there are "extremists" but I've met too many Muslims who by their attitudes (if not their explicit words) try to justify the actions of such extremists which includes the massacre of innocent people AND the severe mistreatment of women... I was curios.. do you see these acts as "extremist" or wrong?

Originally posted by evangel
I also believe in science (but not Darwin)

What do you believe, then? (re: evolution)

Here are a few links that would answer the question better than me writing a LONG post...

http://www.icr.org/pubs/imp/imp-003.htm
http://www.icr.org/pubs/imp/imp-073.htm
http://www.icr.org/pubs/imp/imp-107.htm
http://www.icr.org/pubs/imp/imp-122.htm
http://www.icr.org/pubs/imp/imp-156.htm
http://www.icr.org/pubs/imp/imp-205.htm
http://www.icr.org/pubs/imp/imp-219.htm
http://www.icr.org/pubs/imp/imp-317.htm
http://www.icr.org/pubs/imp/imp-330.htm
http://www.icr.org/pubs/imp/imp-331.htm
http://www.icr.org/pubs/imp/imp-351.htm
http://www.icr.org/pubs/imp/imp-360.htm

Several more SUMMARIES (for more substantial stuff, I suggest going to the icr home page or contacting them directly since they are the leading authorities in this field of study):

http://www.icr.org/pubs/imp/

I realize there are "extremists" but I've met too many Muslims who by their attitudes (if not their explicit words) try to justify the actions of such extremists which includes the massacre of innocent people AND the severe mistreatment of women... I was curios.. do you see these acts as "extremist" or wrong?[/quote]

Are you kidding me? Of course I do. I am very big on feminism. But it really depends who you were talking to. What country were they from? What gender are they? What age group? What did they say and about which topic? You can't bunch all these ideas together and know which is extremism and which isn't. Everything depends on which situation or topic.

Another thing I would like to point is everyone has different views on everything, even if they share the same religion. So, if you could give me a clearer instance or example, I will explain to my best ability.

I dont really believe in anything, I put faith in myself and thats enough for me

Originally posted by phantasy

Are you kidding me? Of course I do. I am very big on feminism. But it really depends who you were talking to. What country were they from? What gender are they? What age group? What did they say and about which topic? You can't bunch all these ideas together and know which is extremism and which isn't. Everything depends on which situation or topic.

Another thing I would like to point is everyone has different views on everything, even if they share the same religion. So, if you could give me a clearer instance or example, I will explain to my best ability.

I guess I am referring to the suicide bombings that seem to happen at least every other day in certain countries in the Middle East, but I have also heard (from news sources like CNN, BBC, and print media) of some severe religious persecution in the Phillipines and in Northern Africa (Basically anyone who is any other religion besides Muslim -especially Christian... often get beaten, killed, or at least severely discriminnated against) -. I can see how there would be a whole range of differing beliefs -just like there are in Christianity or in any other belief system. But how do you relate to those Muslim extremists? Do you consider them to be not truly Muslim? I guess I'll pm from here on -not meaning to hog the thread...

hmm, things have gotten a bit more heated...

I still contend that passing through the narrow gate is a state of desireless heart. The gate itself is not desire, that was not my point. Desirelessness is the way through. The lillies of the field do not work, they do not spin...yet God provides for them. Desire nothing and God is there. I did pretext it as "MY interpretation"

"-One thing that always irks me is the way people take scripture and apply their own meaning to it -without any regard to rules of textual interpretation (hermeneutics) -the chief of which is CONTEXT (comparing scripture with scripture to determine meaning, rather than simply applying an "interpretation" that sounds good)."

you are guilty of this, too. the problem is we ALL have different meanings, so don't be so uptight. Truthfully, we are all right because we all percieve something that DOES exist. Hermeneutics is completely flawd because of deep political bias from the greeks (romans)...that's even a greek word I believe. Comparing the scripture with the scripture, therefor, is the same as comparing relative personal ideas to the scripture because it is simply an older personal idea of what happened. Mathew is my fav, but he is not Jesus. Even if we could hear Christ's words on tape, we would each interpret them differently. This was what happend even within the disciples, most notable with Peter and Simon, of the 1st Catholics and the Gnostics. Both of Chirst, yet the Gnostics were hunted down as heretics...both sides were equally right. Do not be 'irked' evangel, retranslate our meanings together to form conections. The only truth is communication.

...and no, I am by no means 'pure.' I'm just semi-enlightened. I'm still too scared to become a wandering ascetic. hehe. I trust god in an unbending sense more natural then most, however, that frees my mind to help others free theirs. Not all. Not transcendent. Not Bodhisitava...although I HAVE seen most of my 'lives' now. I have one more left if my vision can be trusted, but I take it with modesty and trust in "god's" fate for my life, not my own ambitions, not my own agenda.

Darwinism really doesn't contradict christianity to my knowledge, only christian fundamentalists. Darwin said that evolution existed but ALSO said it was entropic, for the evolution that occurs is not always that which helps the specie or what have you. but I think science and christianity are the same, too. save for, once again fundamentalists, either christian or scientist, for that matter.

I believe in the sun

After reading Lachapelle and Mckenna I believe that conscious thought is based entirely off of early substance abuse, ie mushrooms growing on the forbiddon fruit or something like that. I believe that we cultivated all the addictive crops over thousands of years.

DAmn cool dream redneck.

I agree with you about Muslims phantasy. American media is mostly responsible for the whole "Muslims are sexist" bit. I've read up some. Seems peaceful and is responsible for less bloodshed then christianity (the crusades, inquizition, the bards and druids, the gnostics, tribes, native americans, africans, and modern america in Iraq killing babies instead of political leaders) I like Islam. Even the extremists have a point...killing is NOT the answer, but the Two Towers (world trade center) may be responsible for more deaths by way of sucking dry other "underdeveloped" countries resources and causing mass phamon and disease. I hate to say that they had it coming, but I've seen it coming for a while...although I thought the World Banks would all go first. I don't undestand why americans cannot see how their mass consumption is like a swarm of locusts upon the world...it makes me immensly sad at christmas...jesus's day? Yeah right. Capitalist day is more like it.


Okay. whew
that was intense. I dream of God still...eternity is long. I hope that the world's ego can fit in it together some day. I do believe we are all the same. Despite religious difference now, I just believe we made up a lot of different ways to say the same thing and culture got in the way of peace...but it might just help bring it back.

Final question...

Does anyone think that it is possible to bring Eden back?

Im sorry but I really cannot stand religious and godly convos. I mean they are pointless, I would prefer to bash my skull against a wall as it may get me further. Awhile ago I may have risin to the occasion and dropped my 2 cents in but really theres no point as no matter how hard you argue your still left with jack and shit, and jacks left town.
Really I think this relgious thread are a good way to get some heat happening, though they are in the guise of a freindly civilized chat really people wanna see some fighting...
Sorry if I've offened anyone or just rambled.

Agnostic

Originally posted by Blulanou42


1)hmm, things have gotten a bit more heated...
2)I did pretext it as \"MY interpretation\"
3) \"... rather than simply applying an \"interpretation\" that sounds good).\"
you are guilty of this, too. the problem is we ALL have different meanings, so don't be so uptight. Truthfully, we are all right because we all percieve something that DOES exist.
4) Hermeneutics is completely flawd because of deep political bias from the greeks (romans)...that's even a greek word I believe. Comparing the scripture with the scripture, therefor, is the same as comparing relative personal ideas to the scripture because it is simply an older personal idea of what happened. Mathew is my fav, but he is not Jesus.
5) The only truth is communication.
6) I'm just semi-enlightened.
7) After reading Lachapelle and Mckenna I believe that conscious thought is based entirely off of early substance abuse, ie mushrooms growing on the forbiddon fruit or something like that. DAmn cool dream redneck.
8) Does anyone think that it is possible to bring Eden back?

1) Heated is GOOD. Heated is interesting. Heated is mind-stimulating, and NOT a bad thing, except when people are blatantly attacking one another
2) My bad. Yer right. You DID mention that it was YOUR interpretation, but the way you speak, you sound like a preacher...
3) I suppose what "irks" me moreso is that people generally take scriptures way out of context. The traditional way of deriving meaning from ANY text -especially if it is ambiguous, symbolic, or otherwise difficult to understand -is to study the surrounding text (which in this case would be the chapter in Matthew and the entire book... because I believe the gospels to be divinely inspired (and infallible), comparing scripture with scripture is the best means of deriving meaning/truth in a way that shows the consistency of the scriptures.
4)You also use hermeneutics to interpret... It's just a word describing methods of interpretting text... There are several theories or approaches to hermeneutocs and textual interpretation. Typically, though historical text (which most Christians consider the Bible to be -NOT mythology or spiritual smorgasbord) is interpretted by cross examining other valid text from contemporary writers blah blah.. Sorry. I'm fascinated with the subject I guess.
5) "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it." -John 1:1-5
6) Hmmm... very modest of you to say so
7) Don't believe everything you read...

Eden? Not I. I look forward to seeing the tree of life though

Is it just me or should this be moved to the philosophy section?

I think that "Religion and Myth" is pretty explanatory...