Thread: Everyone has Lucids...

Oneiro, everything is an unsupported sweeping statement when it comes to dreams.

It's a completely subjective experience, and the 'know that you are dreaming', is utter bullshit. Differentiating between reality and dream, while dreaming, is just speculation, and vice versa -- you can only 'know' that you are the dreamer.

Putting someone in a lab and plugging them up to see brain activity, means shit all imo. The term lucid dreaming itself is sketchy, and I'll bet you've seen the array of posts asking 'was this a lucid dream'.

Dreaming of lucid dreaming, I think is often taken as lucid dreaming itself, and determining real control and awareness doesn't lie within the boundaries of 'I know that I'm dreaming'.

Do you lucid dream naturally? If not, then you have no say on the validity of 'naturals', and personally I'm wondering why you care if someone wants to lie, they're only cheating themselves.

I don't know if I have 'lucid dreams' any more. Almost all of my dreams are with high awareness and I have control over them from an objective detached standpoint, as well as being absorbed in them at the same time -- a double pointed awareness which technically doesn't relate to lucidity at all.

Only sometimes do I say "I am lucid dreaming" and recently I have been saying that deliberately to see if it makes a difference, which it doesn't seem to. That said, for the beginner of self-aware dreaming I think that it makes a huge difference, because it helps with the detachment as well as the involvement.

Real control comes from detachment, real sense-experience comes from being involved, together they are what I call a lucid dream, not a simple 'oh I'm dreaming', which lasts for maybe a few minutes because people get so distracted.

I say I am a natural, because it's so effortless, I have no evidence nor motive to prove to you even if I believed it were possible. There are others that dream like I do, or at least claim to.

Skepticism and cynicism are far apart. One shows intelligence, the other shows ignorance.

I'm just surprised that this thread has managed to get to 2 pages long

If the original OP of the thread had said something like "Having dreams is a prerequisite to Lucid Dreaming" then everyone would have been much more enlightened on what he was trying to say, rather than stating that everyone has lucid dreams, lol

The first statement wouldn't have been much fun though and I like ambiguity in a post

Originally Posted by ClouD

Oneiro, everything is an unsupported sweeping statement when it comes to dreams.

Yeeeeeeeeeeeees.. I absolutely agree.. but.. I sense a "but" coming..

Originally Posted by ClouD

It's a completely subjective experience, and the 'know that you are dreaming', is utter bullshit. Differentiating between reality and dream, while dreaming, is just speculation, and vice versa -- you can only 'know' that you are the dreamer.

Yeeeeeeeeeeees.. I absolutely agree.. but..<dons flak helmet, expecting incoming>..

Originally Posted by ClouD

Putting someone in a lab and plugging them up to see brain activity, means shit all imo. The term lucid dreaming itself is sketchy, and I'll bet you've seen the array of posts asking 'was this a lucid dream'

Yeeeeeeeeeeees.. absolutely agree again.. <gets into armoured vehicle and hunkers down>..

Originally Posted by ClouD

Dreaming of lucid dreaming, I think is often taken as lucid dreaming itself, and determining real control and awareness doesn't lie within the boundaries of 'I know that I'm dreaming'.

Oh oh.. <incomiing goes completely over Oneiro's head.. radios HQ.. GOC absent.. realises he's on his own.>

Ummmm.. yes CloD.. <what the f is he/she on about?>

Originally Posted by ClouD

Do you lucid dream naturally?

Ummmmm.. well.. I LD.. and is what I do "natural"? Ummmm.. I surmise that I must do it "naturally"?

..but then..

Ummmm.. CloD? Could you give me your personal definition of "dreaming naturally".. because you're beginning to lose me here.. I can't honestly answer your question without knowing what you exactly mean..

??

Originally Posted by ClouD

If not, then you have no say on the validity of 'naturals'..

Your personal definition of a "natural" is..? I ask this because there is no (IMO) universally-accepted definition of a "natural LDer".. I can't answer your point until I know exactly what you mean.

Originally Posted by ClouD

..and personally I'm wondering why you care if someone wants to lie..

Care? Care? I don't give a shit one way or the other.. you think I care? <Dons anti-delusion helmet inside armoured vehicle>.

Originally Posted by ClouD

I don't know if I have 'lucid dreams' any more. Almost all of my dreams are with high awareness and I have control over them from an objective detached standpoint, as well as being absorbed in them at the same time -- a double pointed awareness which technically doesn't relate to lucidity at all.

Right.. I've made an appointment for you in the LAKRC. They'll sort out your complete confusion of vocab and diction, and hopefully they'll enable you to express your opinions in comprehensible english. Don't worry.. I'll pay the bill.

Huh? What? The LAKRC? What's it stand for? Oh.. right.. it's the:

Los Angeles Knobhead Rehab Clinic.

What? No.. no.. don't thank me..

Originally Posted by ClouD

Only sometimes do I say "I am lucid dreaming" and recently I have been saying that deliberately to see if it makes a difference, which it doesn't seem to.

Oh. So.. is this your backhanded way of admitting that you can't actually LD?

Originally Posted by ClouD

Real control comes from detachment.

Absolutely agree..

Originally Posted by ClouD

..real sense-experience comes from being involved...

Oh shite.. here comes the new-age speak..

Originally Posted by ClouD

..together they are what I call a lucid dream, not a simple 'oh I'm dreaming', which lasts for maybe a few minutes because people get so distracted..

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz..

Originally Posted by ClouD

I say I am a natural, because it's so effortless...

Well.. I say you're a bullshitter, because you make such claims..

On the one hand, you state that, for you, LDing is "effortless"..

On the other hand, you post nothing to substantiate such claims.. you even post your own self-doubt that you can actually LD.

IMO you're just another charlatan looking for sycophants.. but hey.. "prove" me wrong.

Originally Posted by ClouD

I have no evidence nor motive to prove to you even if I believed it were possible. There are others that dream like I do, or at least claim to..

Ummmmm.. yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees.. (still waiting for a "but")..

Originally Posted by ClouD

Skepticism and cynicism are far apart. One shows intelligence, the other shows ignorance.

So... what do your innate scepticism and cynicism tell you?

..and..

My main riposte..

What the f exactly was your point writing all that?

I would appreciate a succinct reply.. no (attempted but not obtained)verbosity..

If that's atall possible for you..